Need Help Windows 10 Free Upgrade?

[Hylie Pistof]

Last year alone I changed motherboards 6 times and also moved from win7 to win8.1. I had to RMA one board when the internet part went out, but the others were testing different mobo/cpu combinations. Sometimes win8 freaked out and sometimes it didn't. I did have to call Microsoft 2 times on the provided toll free number to get new keys. I need to know if this will continue or will it change. So far no one knows.

 

[Captain Murphy]

Hardware is used to connect the license to the machine but it doesn't restrict usage to that motherboard/processor/primary hdd only. I manage the licenses for our company and we have transferred licenses on a number of hardware in the past year for Win 8/8.1. Some of the transfers were done after motherboard failures and all I had to do was click the 'authenticate' button and it was activated again. Some were whole computer failures which required a phone call to 'release' the license key to be activated on a new machine (a 5 minute phone call).

From the documentation I have read you will transfer your current license to a Win10 license so if you decide to downgrade you will have to call in to transfer it back. I have done license transfers in the past on server keys, so this is not a new process for them. Your old key becomes inactive for the old OS and they issue you a new key for the new one. Not a very hard process. Like any process at MS though, you can get a lot accomplished by simply calling them or getting a chat support session. Honestly, people blow dealing with MS out of proportion like it is the worst thing in the world. All they are trying to do right now is consolidate their support staff on 1 single version. The less they have to support legacy OS and that OS interaction with hardware, the more they can focus on moving the platform forward onto new hardware with better standards.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Ok, so I keep my win8.1 hard copy for the key. Win8.1 sucks anyway. WinX will be a digital download. Hmm. If I need to reinstall winX it will be a digital install again. It sure would be nice to have a hard copy handy.

One thing I have heard is that DX12 is more a response to the Steam Machine, Linux, and OpenCL than anything else.

 

[piratesjunkie]

Windows 7 SP1 x64 rules for me! Not for no reason Microsoft is afraid that it could be the next XP and didn´t offer us a SP2. No problem for me, i created one myself

 

[Captain Murphy]

At my work I have had to manage support teams that had a ton of customers (around 70% of customer base) that were sitting on legacy software that they did not want to upgrade. It was costing them a fortune to keep the support up for older software in terms of applying updates to the old version to give it the same bug fixes as the latest ones. Customers expected us to keep updating 20 year old code because they didn't want the buttons to change their location. After I took over I forced everyone to update or lose their support contract and as a byproduct ended up cutting support costs by around 40% and development costs by a further 60%. That, in turn, lowered the price for our software, increased market penetration, and in all made for higher customer satisfaction because they were now on the latest version that had better training and documentation for it. So, honestly, I see Microsoft's pain in this.

Ok, so I keep my win8.1 hard copy for the key. Win8.1 sucks anyway. WinX will be a digital download. Hmm. If I need to reinstall winX it will be a digital install again. It sure would be nice to have a hard copy handy.

One thing I have heard is that DX12 is more a response to the Steam Machine, Linux, and OpenCL than anything else.

This is one part that is not entirely clear for me. I am not sure if the install will be entirely local and digital or if there is an ISO that you can download. I have been reading that they will provide access to an ISO in order to do clean installs later should you need to, but I am not positive. At any rate, I am not worried, but that is because I already have access to it as an ISO and something like 25 licenses for it as part of MSDN.

My biggest complaint about Win8 is the resistance that some hardware vendors made to it. They sat on their asses for making new drivers for so long that it ended up hurting their own sales in the long run. They have also fought against making anything 64bit only architecture because of the possibility of someone running XP on a dinosaur might buy their product. Win 7 was supposed to be the gateway for 8 to allow it to be full 64 and all the hardware vendors screwed that up by fighting the existing standards that other OS's have also been pushing. There is a reason Apple keeps such tight control over their hardware, because making an OS that can work on ANY hardware is a pain in the butt.

 

[Thagarr]

Thanks for the clarification on the Win 8 licensing Captain Murphy. I have very little experience with 8, and I plan on having even less with 10.

There is a reason Apple keeps such tight control over their hardware, because making an OS that can work on ANY hardware is a pain in the butt.

It becomes a lot easier when you base your OS kernel on Linux!

 

[Captain Murphy]

It becomes a lot easier when you base your OS kernel on Linux!

We have ~12 Linux servers in our rack right now. Not a single one matches the other because they were installed and configured at different times. Hardly the best in terms of management and efficiency. All I can say is I am glad I am the Windows admin and not the Linux admin. I have a single server controller that managers all of my Win boxes and makes it a breeze to keep them all on the same page in terms of updates and security.

I have some more reading to do on Win10 for work this month so I may have some other info on the process before too long. We have around 3-5k customer machines that I am sure some will end up taking the opportunity to upgrade so I have to look for any pitfalls that might arise.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I really hate the metro crap as it will NOT go away and is causing problems. Overall win8.1 has not been as reliable as win7 was. If I had not passed win7 on to another rig I would have gone back to it.

I have no experience with ISOs. Are they hard to use? If I have to reinstall it means this computer has become nearly nonfunctional and might or might not have internet access.

 

[Elderlaw]

Both pc's I use right now came preloaded with 8.1. I had to buy 2 legal copies of 7 just to be rid of it. So yeah Windows 10 does make me nervous. I'm just going to wait and see what the early reviews are like before I pull the trigger on it.

If more proprietary video card drivers were available for Linux, I would never use Windows again. But that is probably why they aren't.

 

[Elderlaw]

I have no experience with ISOs. Are they hard to use? If I have to reinstall it means this computer has become nearly nonfunctional and might or might not have internet access.

Check out DAEMON Tools Lite here. Ignore the "Buy Now" button and just click the "Download" one. Was free last I checked. It will let you mount an ISO image so that it behaves like you have a physical CD in a drive.

 

[Captain Murphy]

I think the last time I used an ISO on a DVD/Bluray was for a 2012 Server install because we couldn't find a thumbdrive big enough. Usually we burn to a mountable USB stick for Windows installs and it makes the install time cut down to next to nothing.

I am actually surprised that everyone has such bad experiences with Win8. I, honestly, think it is a matter of not taking time to even try to understand it and just ditching because it isn't familiar. We had that a LOT at work with our staff when we started getting new machines with Win8 on them pre-8.1 and they whined incessantly to try to make me put 7 on them. Now that they have been using 8.1 for the past year I bet they would not enjoy going back. At this point I am managing somewhere around 20+ 8.1 installs and as long as the hardware is pretty new we don't have issues. It has only been with legacy stuff that we run into odd problems, but we just toss the old hardware and buy new and the issue goes away.

Also, I have found that nVidia and Intel are MUCH better on the later OS's than the AMD/ATI stuff. I have no idea why but so far every machine with an Intel chipset has been extremely stable out of the box and the AMD items tend to need a lot more tweaking to work. I would chalk it up to personal experience but the other hardware tech at our company has the same sentiment and he is an AMD/ATI/Linux fanatic. He doesn't mind mucking with tweaks, but I prefer to have things work out of the box so I don't have to mess with it as much later.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Ah, a USB stick! That would work. How big is a winX install?

Your observations about what works better out of the box doesn't surprise me. Have you ever heard of the ICC Patch? It checks the selected program for intel either/or checks and spoofs it to intel only. The improvements in performance range from hardly noticeable to dramatic. Nvidia does the same thing. I will never ever buy anything from those two outfits again.

The ICC Patch does not work on windoze BTW as it gets blocked and stops. Before it stops though, it finds tons of stuff.

 

[piratesjunkie]

Personally i prefer to use Virtual Clone Drive instead of Daemon Tools because it´s absolutely Freeware and doesn´t jump in my nervs with a License Option. If you don´t need it for copy protection workarounds i would recommend this one: http://www.slysoft.com/virtual-clonedrive.html

 

[Armada]

I am actually surprised that everyone has such bad experiences with Win8. I, honestly, think it is a matter of not taking time to even try to understand it and just ditching because it isn't familiar.

For me, it's been pretty good. I used Win8 on a new laptop for a couple of years and what struck me most was the speed of the OS in general.
Of course, the 8.1 upgrade highlighted some of the glaring issues and oversights of stock Win8 (like "Shut down" being hidden in the Charms bar), and looking back, I do wonder what Microsoft was thinking.

Nevertheless, I bought a Surface Pro 3 a few months ago and that has impressed me far more than a non-touchscreen Win8.1 machine.
Though, ironically, I now have to deal with the lack of HiDPI support offered by several Windows programs (Steam and 3ds Max are particularly hard to use with impossibly small text).

 

[Elderlaw]

Personally i prefer to use Virtual Clone Drive instead of Daemon Tools because it´s absolutely Freeware and doesn´t jump in my nervs with a License Option. If you don´t need it for copy protection workarounds i would recommend this one: http://www.slysoft.com/virtual-clonedrive.html

Thanks for the tip! I'll be checking that out for sure.

I am actually surprised that everyone has such bad experiences with Win8. I, honestly, think it is a matter of not taking time to even try to understand it and just ditching because it isn't familiar.

I deeply respect your professional opinion Captain Murphy. Seriously I do. But, I feel like you made some rather large assumptions there. Most of us in this thread that did not care for Windows 8.1, are not the type of people to “not even try to understand it”.

I am a fluent user of every major Mac and PC operating system since DOS 2.1. I am not resistant to change. I am, however, resistant to hand holding software that is designed to lead me down predetermined paths. It’s not just the OS per se that turns me off, it’s the much bigger picture behind the software that I don’t like.

I do not want to act like I'm speaking for others as this is only my opinion. But I really doubt that Thagarr, Hylie and myself are stereotypical end users like you are used to taking care of.

I have no idea why but so far every machine with an Intel chipset has been extremely stable out of the box and the AMD items tend to need a lot more tweaking to work. I would chalk it up to personal experience but the other hardware tech at our company has the same sentiment and he is an AMD/ATI/Linux fanatic. He doesn't mind mucking with tweaks, but I prefer to have things work out of the box so I don't have to mess with it as much later.

Yes, adding aftermarket parts to your car is also often more tricky than installing stock OEM parts.

 

[Captain Murphy]

I deeply respect your professional opinion Captain Murphy. Seriously I do. But, I feel like you made some rather large assumptions there. Most of us in this thread that did not care for Windows 8.1, are not the type of people to “not even try to understand it”.

I am a fluent user of every major Mac and PC operating system since DOS 2.1. I am not resistant to change. I am, however, resistant to hand holding software that is designed to lead me down predetermined paths. It’s not just the OS per se that turns me off, it’s the much bigger picture behind the software that I don’t like.

I do not want to act like I'm speaking for others as this is only my opinion. But I really doubt that Thagarr, Hylie and myself are stereotypical end users like you are used to taking care of.

I wasn't referring to anyone here, I mean more of the fact that the majority of folks wanted a 'simpler' OS akin to some of the Apple products and when they got it the reaction was more of a 'ewww, it is different' than a 'oh cool, it is different'. Speaking from our own company we had 2 new support people, 1 with experience in Win7, the other with only MacOS experience. When we set their machines up it was a matter of minutes and the Mac user was working along fine and the Win user was fighting the changes. I am pretty sure the Win user spent a full week trying to get Win7 feel back when they could have just used it as it was to the same effect.

For me, it's been pretty good. I used Win8 on a new laptop for a couple of years and what struck me most was the speed of the OS in general.
Of course, the 8.1 upgrade highlighted some of the glaring issues and oversights of stock Win8 (like "Shut down" being hidden in the Charms bar), and looking back, I do wonder what Microsoft was thinking.

Nevertheless, I bought a Surface Pro 3 a few months ago and that has impressed me far more than a non-touchscreen Win8.1 machine.
Though, ironically, I now have to deal with the lack of HiDPI support offered by several Windows programs (Steam and 3ds Max are particularly hard to use with impossibly small text).

No one remembers that Win8 was sold as the 'tablet' operating system. My first time with it was on an older Surface when it first was getting released. It was pretty natural to use on it. However, the first PC it was on it was annoying as hell to use mostly because the desktop was almost hidden and they wanted all apps to be the start menu type that took over the whole screen. 8.1 fixed a bunch of the glaring issues but left a few things the same (start screen for one) that many users despised. Very simply had they left the start menu/desktop for PC and set the start screen for tablet, I can bet the backlash would have been nearly null. It was a case of the squeaky wheel getting the attention and the bulk of users were not loud enough during the process of development.

 

[Elderlaw]

I wasn't referring to anyone here, I mean more of the fact that the majority of folks wanted a 'simpler' OS akin to some of the Apple products and when they got it the reaction was more of a 'ewww, it is different' than a 'oh cool, it is different'.

Aha... I totally understand that. And thanks for sharing your expertise.

 

[Jack Orff]

well on my system windows 10 works much smoother and with less crashes when playing older games like potc (also the build mod runs far more stable now on win 10 than it did on win 7)
but newer games like Grid2 don't run as good or not at all.

Technically windows 10 is a good OS. it is as fast as win 8 and in general more stable than windows 7, but the device drivers available for windows 10 don't work so well yet, which is fault of nvidia, amd, intel and so on, so for most ppl (not me) it'd be better to wait a while with the upgrade, but you'll get a better OS at the end.

BTW: Yes I'm using AMD CPU & GPU maybe intel and nvidia works better with win 10
however i wont ever buy intel stuff and nvidia is too expensive for me

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Do you have the latest drivers? I have an all AMD system and the latest drivers made it run better. It is still Win8.1 tho. I will be installing a new motherboard soon and then winX will go in. Others are reporting that modern games are running better than before with it.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Well, I got win X 3 days ago and so far it is working much better than win8.1 ever did. It is easier to set up and turn off most of the really obnoxious stuff so I get a smooth clean desktop.

Gaming performance is better in modern games but not enough to be really noticeable. The average frame rate stays about the same, but the lows and highs are higher.

Storm engine games are hard hit. COAS is not too bad with higher frame rates, but some stuttering is also introduced. The frame rate is no longer capped at 60 fps now and can get pretty high in certain situations.

POTC has been hit hard and I need to play a lot more to figure it all out. For me it is like playing in windowed mode when it is not. This is bad as the game is darker and the mouse is wonky. Store menus scroll slower and the character floats along. The old bug where the mouse is super slow in tavern rooms is back and it is there to stay.

The action at sea is different too. The frame rate is unlocked and the action is smooth and jerky at the same time. It is hard to describe but that is what it is like in early testing. My formerly smooth POTC 3.3 is now a little slower with that little jerkiness. The new POTC is better with better frame rates and smoother action combined with that little jerkiness. Both versions are pretty close overall now. But neither is smooth.

Now for the bad part. My motherboard went wonky so I replaced it with the spare board. Then winX was no longer activated and the method for activating it again is not clear. I finally found out how to get a techie online and begin what used to be a painless process that only took 10 minutes or so. This time it took well over an hour and I had to give them a LOT of information. If it is like this every time I change a motherboard or hard drive this is a big time bug.