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Why no "Braces" of Grapeshot pistols?

Did you try them in your pant's with that big nosel. A 'brace' should be something that you can conceal and draw easly, with those big nosel it's hard to bring them out easly, most of the time they will hook themself on the pants and your stuck. I don't think it will be realistic a all. Then again it's just my point of view.

One thing we should think about, is that those pistol were quite heavy, that's the reason why they use to put them in they pants or inside there big coat, instead of hooking them on the side of there legs. Less anoying for them since they don't slap on the side of your leg and don't hook themself on anything that you come across to close.

Cheers, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
In other words, for the same reason we don't have braces of muskets. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=316064:date=Apr 27 2009, 09:11 AM:name=Estharos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Estharos @ Apr 27 2009, 09:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=316064"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did you try them in your pant's with that big nosel. A 'brace' should be something that you can conceal and draw easly, with those big nosel it's hard to bring them out easly, most of the time they will hook themself on the pants and your stuck. I don't think it will be realistic a all. Then again it's just my point of view.

One thing we should think about, is that those pistol were quite heavy, that's the reason why they use to put them in they pants or inside there big coat, instead of hooking them on the side of there legs. Less anoying for them since they don't slap on the side of your leg and don't hook themself on anything that you come across to close.

Cheers, <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


On the contrary, very few pistols of the age were concealable. there was such a thing as a pocket pistol of course, and the autobiograpghy of Donald McBane, one of the most impressive dualists of the early 1700s, mentions them frequently.

McBane primarily dueled to protect his interists in prositution and gambling in the army of his Grace, the Duke of Marlborugh, during Queen Anne's war, also known as the War of the Spainish Succession, and he was extremely concerned over pocket pistols, but then he was a gangster dueling other gansters, who did on occasion pull them when loosing.

This actually happened to him once in his third or fourth duel to 'muscle in' on a group of pimps. after searching each other for concealed firearms, they fought, then the other fellow pulled a pistol out from inside his hat and shot at McBane. The ball came so close it when through his cravat. McBane, thinking himself shot, chased the man down and gave him thrust through the buttocks.

But no, most pistols wouldn't have been particular concealable, nor would the attempt have been made to conceal them.


Now, a brace of pistols has nothing to do with size, it merely means a pair. If you look up Dictionary.com, it litereally means "pair" on entry number 10.

<a href="http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?act=Post&CODE=02&f=37&t=13184&qpid=316064" target="_blank">http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?ac...amp;qpid=316064</a>


What was usually done with pistols is to stick a pair of them through a sash or a swordbelt. Indeed, the British "Sea service pistol" included a large belt clip to hold it in place.
Take a look at these replicas.
<a href="http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/NEWess1756.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/NEWess1756.shtml</a>

Here's a few pictures of originals.
<a href="http://www.vallejogallery.com/item.php?id=1896" target="_blank">http://www.vallejogallery.com/item.php?id=1896</a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/11964447@N02/3228269622/" target="_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/11964447@N02/3228269622/</a>
<a href="http://www.goantiques.com/scripts/images,id,1536400.html#" target="_blank">http://www.goantiques.com/scripts/images,id,1536400.html#</a>

Now, they didn't have interchangeable parts back then, but these things adveraged around 14 inches long. You 'could' conceal that, but it wouldn't be the least bit easy, and that's quite a common type for a pistol. I personally tote around a full sized modern pistol from time to time, (I'm licenced to carry,) and my weapon isn't half that long.

So what was usually done is to take a pair, (Or a brace,) of the great big, HUGE pistol of your choice, and stick it through your belt, one on either side. Along with your sword, you were well prepared to rumble. But the sheer size of the pistol didn't limit anyone. Pirates, as I'm sure you know, tended to carry as many as they could get, sticking them everywhere, and inventing the holster to help!

So what's actually unrealistic is having a 'brace' of three of them. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> That said, I'm not complaining about the idea of three pistols. Call it a set though, if you want to be realistic.

Still, as historically the size clearly wasn't considered a limiting factor, there's really no 'historical' reason for these grapeshot numbers to be any harder to tote around then the "large pistols' of which we already have braces. You know, the sizes are rather similar anyway.


So we return to the original question. Since it actually isn't unrealistic, why don't we have braces of grapeshot pistols?
 
Pirates were known to tie a length of ribbon to the butts of their pistols, and hang them over their necks (Johnson, A General History of the Pyrates). Also, archaeological finds from the pirate ship Whydah also show this to be fact. It's no problem to tie a brace of pistols together then stick them into your sash or belt (speaking as a pirate reenactor).

Yours, Mike
 
Keep in mind that the grapeshot pistol is buggy. You can hit unintended targets, even if those targets aren't in your line of site or even close or even somewhere that you can actually see. The code seems to select someone at random anywhere in the area you're logged in.

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=316080:date=Apr 27 2009, 02:37 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Apr 27 2009, 02:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=316080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Keep in mind that the grapeshot pistol is buggy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So why don't we have buggy braces of grapeshot pistols? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
For the same reason we don't have braces of muskets?

Edit: Y'know, actually we DO have braces of grapeshot pistols. It's called the pump shotgun, fires 3 shots without reloading, uses grapeshot ammo. It's available from Clint Eastwood somewhere in the jungles of Nevis, I think. He won't just give it to you. You'll have to take it away from him. Go ahead, make his day.

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=316087:date=Apr 27 2009, 03:59 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Apr 27 2009, 03:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=316087"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For the same reason we don't have braces of muskets?

Edit: Y'know, actually we DO have braces of grapeshot pistols. It's called the pump shotgun, fires 3 shots without reloading, uses grapeshot ammo. It's available from Clint Eastwood somewhere in the jungles of Nevis, I think. He won't just give it to you. You'll have to take it away from him. Go ahead, make his day.

Hook<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Did. Looks silly. The actual GS pistol I can buy into.

Besides, You made the braces of muskets analogy on the basis of realism. Now proven false. So it no long applies.

And if it ever did apply, I would have countered with one of the old stories about having the best shots in the unit shoot while the not so good shots reloaded for them when in a fortress.

So yes, some would infact carry braces of muskets. Not that's it's valid to a discussion of grapeshot pistols.

Then, was the musket issue a valid one, whcih it isn't, I'd bring up the lack of bayonets on said muskets.
 
I'm glad you didn't make me trot out examples of braces of muskets. But the entire thing had nothing whatsoever to do with realism.

If you wish to add braces of grapeshot pistols to the game, feel free.

Hook
 
Hi,

Sir Christopher Mings' Skull model has a brace of pistols....we can add as many as you want,(it's quite easy to do),but the game only recognizes and uses one of them. So appart from appearence...there's no point.

damski.
 
You could make a brace of grapeshot pistols in your own game; you just need to make some simple changes to some code files.

<!--quoteo(post=316080:date=Apr 27 2009, 05:37 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Apr 27 2009, 05:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=316080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Keep in mind that the grapeshot pistol is buggy. You can hit unintended targets, even if those targets aren't in your line of site or even close or even somewhere that you can actually see. The code seems to select someone at random anywhere in the area you're logged in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Ouch; it's NOT supposed to be doing that. It should select random victims around the character you targeted. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":modding" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=316088:date=Apr 27 2009, 08:09 AM:name=GreySaber)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GreySaber @ Apr 27 2009, 08:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=316088"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did. Looks silly. The actual GS pistol I can buy into.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The shotgun doesn't do multidamage in the first place, I think. And of COURSE it's silly! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rofl" border="0" alt="24.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=316100:date=Apr 27 2009, 07:33 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Apr 27 2009, 07:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=316100"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You could make a brace of grapeshot pistols in your own game; you just need to make some simple changes to some code files.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

K. How is that done?
 
I'll try to remember to answer that when I get home; right now I don't have access to my game files.
Anyway, the code you need is in PROGRAM\ITEMS\initItems.c; you'll need to make a copy of the grapeshot pistol line.
Then modify it to get the "brace" functionality by increasing the number of shots.
Then add the "multidmg" flag to it at the bottom of the file in the InitGun function, provided you do want that.
 
In PROGRAM\ITEMS\initItems.c find the following line:<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->n = InitGun(n, "pistol3", "pistol3",  6,  3, 0.30,  8,  6000, 30.0, 60.0,  20, 1, 20, PIRATE, "OBJECTS\DUEL\pistol_grape.wav", "pg"); // Grapeshot Pistol<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->Copy it and change the first "pistol3" (ID) to something else that isn't used yet, say "pistol10".
Then increase the number of shots from 1 to 2 and change whatever else you want. Then find:<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->case "pistol3":        gun.multidmg = 1; break; // PB: Grapeshot Pistol<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->Copy it, but for "pistol10". Then in RESOURCE\INI\TEXTS\ENGLISH\ItemsDescribe find the description of "pistol3",
copy it but change it for "pistol10" and change the description to say something like "Brace of Grapeshot Pistols".
Load your game and reinit (F11) for the new item to become available in your game.
 
A brace of grapeshot pistols will need a high minlevel and should be rare. I'd suggest changing the pump shotgun to a brace of grapeshot pistols rather than add them to the items. This way you get rid of a silly item, add the item you want, and it still preserves the balance of the game. It doesn't fix the bugginess of the grapeshot pistols though.

A search for the word "shotgun" should show you everything you need to modify to do this.

Hook
 
As Hook points out, indeed my above suggestion doesn't work well as far as gamebalancing is concerned.
You could do as Hook suggests by changing the interface picture used by the shotgun and changing the description too.
Note that the shotgun is a unique item by default that is not supposed to show up anywhere in the game, except on the Clint Eastwood character.
 
<!--quoteo(post=316448:date=Apr 29 2009, 08:53 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Apr 29 2009, 08:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=316448"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Note that the shotgun is a unique item by default that is not supposed to show up anywhere in the game, except on the Clint Eastwood character.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> that may be, but i found one on the captain of a french sloop lately, that was with build 14.9 patch 3
 
Hook's fixes for the Unique mod were only included in Patch 4. From Patch 4, you shouldn't be able to encounter them anymore.
 
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