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where's the motivation?

L

longjohn

Landlubber
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" />

It be me, laddies, Ole Longjohn. It seems it takes me no time to rack up an ungodly pile of "de-blumes" with nuthin to do with em after buying a few trinkets. Me parrot says why we riskin life and limb (short one already ) to get more treasure when we got all this? Glory, says I, and the quest, but it rings hollow. Maybe one of those brainy lads who write God's rules could come up with a booty-drain to set things aright. Maybe thar be ship upgrades like in Sid Myres Pirates, or some such.
God's bones and a double shiver me timbers says I, it just seem hard to go a pirating without the hunger for spoils.

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
Longjohn
 
translation:

the game needs more ways to spend money as you are making too much. the only reason why we are still collecting it is because of the experences when collecting it.

sorry, but it seemed more philosophical at first. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /> it wasn't really clear what it was about, or at least to me.
 
The more pirating you do, the more notorious you become. If you decide to play as privateer for one of the navies, you can gain land and ranks with the governor, which is probably more fun than being a straight-out pirate, because joining the pirates doesn't give you land or ranks at all.

There was once a mod made to add upgrades to your ship, but I had to leave it out of Build 13 at the request of the modder, KBlack. I would like to add it to Build 14 Alpha, but it's not compatible with the Build 13 code anymore and would need to be rewritten. :-(
 
yes, joining the pirates needs to be more attractive. it's a bit more adventurous, and you can hire those mercenaries, but there's not really anything special about it. having to help pirates in a raiding mission (sea or land) would be nice. like having to rob a certain amount of goods from trade ships, if that's possible. or, in a more easy way to program in, having to deliver certain goods, aquired either by looting or buying. a bit like a trade mission.

anyway, it get's a bit too much work after a while to get to the next rank with a nation. i once had a relation of well over 450 with all nations except the pirates and england. at that point, it get's pretty boring. then, there's not that much to do if you already did all of the quests you could do. and you don't, as already said, have a use for money anymore, as you have so much of the stuff and did anything you could do with it.
 
Maybe some sort of realism mod is needed to lower the amount of money you can get? It would be cool if the price for all items were closer to real life back then, and the amount of gold you got was decreased a bit.

Didn't pirates go looting and plundering then party if up on land until they were broke and it was time to go back out? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" />
 
well, i think the prices could be set back to the stock game ones. but then the ship prices might have to be lowered as well. however, the high ship prices in would make a perfect use for the profits made byt treasure hunting and smuggling. what i'm saying is, lower all the money amounts except the ship prices (yes, the treasure rewards as well, but not that much that you would need too much of treasure hunting to buy a good ship). that would surely solve the money issues, and make doing treasure quests more attractive. the player would be willing to take a risk to make some cash. or he could try to board it, which is also not exactly easy. either way, it would bacome a lot more difficult to get a good ship early in the game.
 
Hiring mercenaries? What are you talking about, Morgan? Is that an idea of yours? Or is that somewhere in the modpack without me being aware of it? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />

I wonder if changing the money factor would improve the game a lot. I do agree that getting money should be hard and there should be enough things to spend it on. But there will come a point in every game that things become boring. That's why I have a different suggestion for making the game more interesting and fun: The player should be more involved in the game. There should always be interesting things that might happen.

I personally would like it a whole bunch of random events could be modded in. Random events such as changing nation relations and towns being captured and the player having an influence on that. But also friendly ship encounters that can actually be of some use.

I have had an idea for a long time: Rewrite/Copy the Instant Boarding ability to work on friendly ships, after which the player is teleported to the other ship's deck and can talk to the captain and crew, exchange news and goods or ust talk or get quests or do all sorts of things.

I also like the idea of the player being more involved in the goings on aboard his ship. Which player actually gives a **** about his officers or crew? Answer: Nobody does. Reason: Crew are just numbers and the only thing interesting about your officers are their skill stats as well. But what if we actually give personality to crew and officers? Imagine hiring a really good navigator, but he keeps complaining about everything. Or hiring a boatswain who starts telling bad stories about the captain to the crew. Or imagine hiring a low-ranking officer, who is truly loyal to you? Who would you choose? A disloyal, but good officer or a loyal bad one? Could make for a lot of interesting situations. Especially because the player will need to get to know the personality traits of these characters. At the moment you can decide if an officer is the one you seek before hiring them. But how about finding out that you super-officer is actually planning to commit a mutiny and take the ship for himself. Or imagine him actually SUCCEEDING at that and you ending up like Jack Sparrow in the first film, having to go to great lengths to get your ship back.

This would surely add a lot of interest into the game, because then suddenly interaction between crew, officers and player becomes important. An aspect that currently hardly even exists in the game. Is this easy to mod in? No. But it has the potention to be a tremendous improvement over our current modding work.

I think the DirectSail mod, cannon explosion and talk to the captain mods are already good steps in the right direction, but we're not there yet.
 
Yes I agree to your officer/crew ideas Pieter.
Also I would like to add that this strange "officer" deckfighter or tough or what he´s called is the only one needed as a companion.
1) it doesn´t sound like an officer at all to me.
2) There is already this possibility to take some crewmembers with you (as fighters).
3) I think it could be more interesting if the other (real) officers have to risk their lifes sometimes, maybe in boarding actions etc. Just hiring them & forgetting them is uninteresting I think.
4) There could be a redistribute of what skills belongs to which officer. For ex: Like to see the quartermaster is made more important and let others take care of the repairs. Also new medicine skills etc etc. Repair could be divided in two: Hull & rigging. Perhaps a system of QM 3 skills, some officers 2 skills & some 1 skill. The role of the first mate is somehow strange in the game: most of all just standby to take over the command of captured vessels. More fun if you have to take one of your really needed officers (like the navigator) to that?
Just a few thoughts.
 
heh...i usually DO have to use one of my much needed officers to take command of a ship. i've never really have had any problems (personality-wise) with my officers, as i usually fantasize about the story of me and my officers as i play the game. (such as more personal dialogues, things that should be in-game, as you said) i don't really need such a mod, but it would be great to have. the problem is, there would be countless situations for your officers to react to. but it would be possible to at least give them a few reactions to a certain amount of situations. an interesting thing would have them talk to you when they are in trouble, like in a fight, but that would probably lead to dialogue in mid-battle, unless it would be triggered when you go out of fight-mode, or better, sheathe your sword. (as there already is a command for automatically sheathing after a fight in boarding or fighting in a fort, it shouldn't be that difficult to do. there would have to be a check for the officer's amount of health though, which could cause problems)
 
First pay a salary or shares to the crew and officers.

Leave the money alone ..BEING RICH AND HAVING LOADS OF RICHES is a reward in itself.

Ship upgrades . Armament upgrades such as really Nice Cannon and sails to give speed a manuver.
Armor and plating for the ships .
require ships be maintained...as in they loose durability over battles and sailing and need to be refited.

Super expensive and well worth it item s...Sword and Armor and Pistol .

Can we buy a house yet ?
Seems odd being a landowner and having no home .

more jewelry and items that add sttats..and make them costly and only buyable not found as treasure.

Thats all for Now ...but its not the money ..its having something to with it like invest it in a port to improve its ecomomy and shipyard etc...

Of course some of this is esy to do ..the items especially .

The rest require an effort . Maybe a huge one .

Add a Training school to pay to send officers to to earn skills
 
<!--quoteo(post=185728:date=Mar 18 2007, 08:46 AM:name=ledhed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ledhed @ Mar 18 2007, 08:46 AM) [snapback]185728[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
First pay a salary or shares to the crew and officers.

Leave the money alone ..BEING RICH AND HAVING LOADS OF RICHES is a reward in itself.

Ship upgrades . Armament upgrades such as really Nice Cannon and sails to give speed a manuver.
Armor and plating for the ships .
require ships be maintained...as in they loose durability over battles and sailing and need to be refited.

Super expensive and well worth it item s...Sword and Armor and Pistol .

Can we buy a house yet ?
Seems odd being a landowner and having no home .

more jewelry and items that add sttats..and make them costly and only buyable not found as treasure.

Thats all for Now ...but its not the money ..its having something to with it like invest it in a port to improve its ecomomy and shipyard etc...

Of course some of this is esy to do ..the items especially .

The rest require an effort . Maybe a huge one .

Add a Training school to pay to send officers to to earn skills
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Hi,
All pirate talk aside. I'm not that young. I was a big time DM (dungeon master) back in the early 70's when it was in its pure state. What made me in demand was I kept my players lean and hungry. I KNOW its D&D and not pirate, but the premise is still sound. In the origonal game, one got experence for gold found (by any means.) Experence made you higher level, hit better, save better, all of that. That seemed foolish to me. An idiot could stumble onto 100k gold and be a force. Gold doesn't make one great. Its what he DOES with it that may or may not. I stopped giving exp pts for gold. I had "training". You could buy items, you could train in MANY detailed areas (that used to be freely given by level advancement.) This takes away $. You must give it out or there is no reason to go, but a good DM takes it back. In sid"s Pirates, he has many upgrades for $. In life, a BMW is VERY costly to buy new, but just try to sale it a week later, especally to just your friends, the available cash is usually low. Selling ships should be the same, buy high, sell low. Just basic econ. will tell you if many of us are boarding,catching and bringing lots of ships in t sell often the price would fall.
How about when we advance. WE get free skills and abilitys. How about we just have mastered the old ones we were working on and now may apply ourselves to new studies!! First, we must decide which ones, thenfind a suitable instructor, convince them to train us, then practice it till we master it (shown by gaining enough exp pts to advance to the next level) only thendo we actually gain the ability. This would add infinate quest to the game and provide interaction and an outlet for funds.
I've more to say, but my girlfrieng is in the car ready to go , so I'll close.
sorry I'm no typist.
I'd like to discuss this more at length
Longjohn
 
hmm...could be a good idea, but only when using the autoskill mod, which still needs perfecting in my opinion. otherwise those extra skills are simply not needed, as you already gain them pretty easily.
 
<!--quoteo(post=185734:date=Mar 18 2007, 10:35 AM:name=morgan terror)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(morgan terror @ Mar 18 2007, 10:35 AM) [snapback]185734[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
hmm...could be a good idea, but only when using the autoskill mod, which still needs perfecting in my opinion. otherwise those extra skills are simply not needed, as you already gain them pretty easily.
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I didnt mean extra skills, I meant all skills. You would gain no skills from gaining a level, only the ability to learn a new skill, providing you find someone who could train you (if they were friendly to you ((as the french HATE me right now)) and meat thier price, either in gold, an item or a quest.
 
those already excist. kinda. but they could indeed be made more interesting and important. but i don't really feel anything for the idea. i think it's fine as it is. (except for the fact that the speed at which the skills increase is off) besides, how would you gain leadership that way?

oh: the mercenaries are mary wood and the guy in turk island lighthouse. you know them. stupid mary wood got herself killed by attempting to broadside a manowar with a brigantine. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
Have you ever heard the saying of "money makes money"? If you get a lot of money, which enables you to buy better blades, ship upgrades, etc. that will make it easier to get more money. Which just might result in the game becoming more boring, instead of more interesting, because the more money you have, the more money you get, the less of a challenge there is. The main things that we should think of are two: 1) Try to keep the game interesting, even in later stages and 2) Try to keep the game challengine, even in later stages. That sounds simple, but it really isn't.

Have you noticed that there are several people who just start a new game quite frequently because of the simple reason the game is challenging at first and becomes to easy and boring in the later stages? I think it should be the other way around: The game should be challenging at the beginning, but not so challenging that first-time players will be put-off. However, the game should become MORE challenging in the later stages.

To Long John: That's a pretty darn good idea, actually. Instead of free skill points, you get the <i>ability</i> to learn a skill, but you still need to find the gold for it, as well as to find somebody or someplace where you can learn it.
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Pieter,
I give myself a few Goldcoins, been playing the game for over 3 years
and don't get bored! This is about the only one that lasted so long!
AoP and Sid Meyers Pirates don't do so well! We all have differend opinions
about that one! The Modding makes quite a difference too.....just don't put
to many BUGS in, you hear!!!! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
if this idea is worked out, then we would need three toggles for the skill-increase modes. and i still like the original the best.
 
One important thing you do need to keep in mind is that giving the player more things to do with his money, e.g. invest his money, will give the player additional money in return, possibly making the problem worse instead of solving it.

How about this idea with the skill increases:
- The player gains experience very slowly by using his skills (learning by doing) - same as in Auto Skill System, but perhaps even slower
- For every level-up, the player gains skill points - same as in stock game

However, the skill points can not be immediately assigned by the player. Instead the player will need to find somebody to teach him or find some place to learn. Or find an item that teaches him, such as a book. This way the player will need money to learn the skills and it will also prevent the player from advancing through the game too quickly.

I think this would be quite a realistic system. After all, people can learn on their own without any help, but that works slowly. With help, it goes much quicker, but you do need to invest additional resources (money) into that.

The good part is that doing this probably wouldn't actually require much work. After all: Most code is already present. original skill system and Auto Skill System both already exist, we would just need to make them work together at once, balance them, rewrite a bit of the learning from teachers code and make it so that the skill up items will never increase your skills further than the maximum of your free skill points.
 
i'm fine with that. just for the record, these are the current problems with the skills with the autoskill mod:

you can get leadership at 5 by doing all the quests, but after that, it nearly halts altogether. only a small increase once in a while.

cannon skill WAY too fast. had it at 10 at level 8. (bit cannon-happy i guess. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":))" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" /> )

repair skill needs a way to increase better. when i was at level 32, it had still only increased by 3% since the start of the game. maybe by taking damage?

accuracy is too slow in comparison to the others and especially it's importance.

luck doesn't seem to increase at all when playing tavern games.

for the rest, it seems ok. the problem with the slowness of this mod is that you can have a manowar when all your skills are still at 3 or so at most, except the cannon skill which would of course be much higher. then you are basically sailing a ship without the skills to do so. you rely completely on your officers, and having a manowar so soon kills the game a bit. somehow, it should be amde more difficult to get a better ship. i'm still thinking of decreasing the amount of money the player gets. a bit more like the stock game, but with still fairly high prices for ships. in the stock game, it was MUCH more difficult to get a good ship.
 
There are two things in the game that are extremely expensive:

Buying Fame.

Buying Reputation.

You "buy fame" by dividing the plunder with your crew. Part of this money goes to your personal wealth, which determines your fame. Try getting to Scourge of the Seven Seas without getting married. While we're at it, let's reduce the fame increase you get by getting married (or having mistresses); it's way overpowered.

You "buy reputation" by giving money to the church. Most of the time it's easier to get to Hero by doing good deeds, as buying it is exceedingly expensive.

Hook
 
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