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The Ideal Game Story

Thats it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Maybe potc or coas could be done this way? I think you pointed your destination out on sort of a worldmap.
 
I don't really see this being possible for PotC; maybe maybe something could be done with CoAS once we ported to that.
Provided that we learn to make new location and island models from scratch.
 
It would be so exotic. Venetian trading-families with ties going way back to the byzantine empire in persian ports, arabian, african and egyptian floating traders off the coasts of northern africa, the junks in Indochina with merchants and fishermen bringing selling peals and silk, huge barks leaving chinese ports with porcelain and tea for europe - aaargh really got me started there <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

There were a lot of famous pirates in the north atlantic, even on Iceland. Especially dutch and flemish pirates, but also corsairs and tribes from the middleterrainean.
 
Agh.... you're making me drool! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":razz" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />
That'd certainly bring a lot of variety into the game that so far you just don't have in any pirate game.
As far as I'm concerned, it might even be worth to consider just dropping the Caribbean as point of focus altogether and having the ports much further away, but much more different.
 
And you know what - this is how I wanted it. Its not realistic at all, installing big 32-pounder guns on all decks. If you somehow could distribute the guns, so you could balance your ship - no matter if it is a whaler, indiaman or frigate - it would affect the way, the ship handled at sea. Maybe through variables calculating what each gun weights, contra how the guns are distributed. 32-punders on the lower decks, 18 or 9 punders on the upper decks was the main rule. This picture I created for myself, illustrates what I mean:

lower_gundeck.jpg

That would be ideal. Also, you could choose which guns to replace, if you dont have enough money.
I know, there is a submenu for distributing guns, and I think it could be made into obeying these (logic) rules. The limitations in the ShipInit.c file would still be needed, as there are limitiations on, how much weight the ships knees can carry when the gun is fired - so you cant i.e. install 2 42-pounders in a sloop instead of 12 4-pounders. The ship is not build for that, however it is proved, that gunboats can carry large guns in the stern. The british Africa was attacked and completely destroyed by 32 danish gunboats each carrying a 36-pounder in 1808.
 
That'd be pretty cool. Can't imagine many people bothering with that and it appears we can't (easily) do that in PotC, but yes it would be cool. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
I have now made this thread available for everyone to view, since a similar discussion was taking place at the "<a href="http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?showtopic=13426" target="_blank">why always the caribbean</a>" thread.
It appears there's no real indication as to why and where we were discussing this before, so that should be safe.
And for all those who don't know what this is about... that'll STAY that way until we know more ourselves... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
 
Hi all,

I`m totally for Sordids idea of a small but VERY detailed game world and it should be the Eastern half of the Mediterranean.

Regards, Oldtimer
 
Why that area? Wouldn't you want to have Gibraltar too at least?
Of course there was a lot of corsairs there, if I recall, so it'd certainly be a good setting.
And it'd be pretty new, offering some stuff not seen before in these games.
 
<!--quoteo(post=323417:date=May 28 2009, 10:28 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ May 28 2009, 10:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=323417"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why that area? Wouldn't you want to have Gibraltar too at least?
Of course there was a lot of corsairs there, if I recall, so it'd certainly be a good setting.
And it'd be pretty new, offering some stuff not seen before in these games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hi Pieter,

well, I`d for once like a realistic pirate/privateer/merchant game. Gibraltar is very interesting in strategy games but not for a single ship privateer.
Neither do I like current games making you, the privateer, command squadrons of three-deckers just because some moron of game designer decided that you must capture "n" forts and cities to finally finish a quest where the main purpose might amount to getting some female to open up for you or whatever. In more or, preferably, less chivalric manner.
These things are readily available at certain establishments to be found in most port towns and using them for getting what you need is much less risky than assaulting forts.

So a small but very detailed world where you rely on your wits perhaps even more then on your arms would be more of a challenge for developers and could provide as much or more content
than big, but for financial reasons mostly generic or empty worlds. Think Guybrush Threpwood gameplay.

BTW, really need to take a fort? Infiltrate, bribe, poison the wells, blackmail, assassinate, introduce plague, instigate mutiny, desinform... There are powerful methods other than three-deckers, believe you me.

And the Med was a real hornets nest with lots of factions, all with interesting agendas and cramped in a small space. There were gamewise manageable trade routes to exploit/cut/protect.

And if you havn`t ever dreamt of commanding a galley, you are not a real naval addict anyway.

Regards, Oldtimer
 
Hmm... I like galleys. In the Roman age. But not later. Looked quite wrong in my opinion in The Sea Hawk.
Of course it might've been realistic, but it's just not what I would like to see.
I agree that the Mediterranean could certainly work. And I'd like a game where using your wits works as well or better even than using firepower. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=323693:date=May 30 2009, 12:38 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ May 30 2009, 12:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=323693"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm... I like galleys. In the Roman age. But not later. Looked quite wrong in my opinion in The Sea Hawk.
Of course it might've been realistic, but it's just not what I would like to see.
I agree that the Mediterranean could certainly work. And I'd like a game where using your wits works as well or better even than using firepower. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hi Pieter,

the Med without galleys until the end of Napoleonic wars is , well, not the Med. The ur-galiot was a small(c. 16 m), very lightly built, very fast, very agile galley specially designed for privateering. I`d like one... In the ideal pirate game at least...
BTW, the galleys were quite a bit more seaworthy than generally accepted. AFAIR the medieval Genoese and maybe others regularly used caravans of galleys for trade with England. And insurance fees for galley cargoes were remarkably low also, hinting that they were`nt all that fragile.

There must have been some advantages in using galleys for trade even after highly refined sailing ships were available as I remember seeing a model of a Venetian trade galley from the end of the XVIII-th century.

Regards, Oldtimer
 
The galleys, galeoths - oar-driven wessels in general - have always proven necessary in the some waters, especially the middleterrainean. Sudden lack of wind turns critical in situations. Maybe Holland or Britain did not need these wessels in their territories, but a lot of nations made succesfull use of them all the way up to the 18th century. As ramming-, bombardment or pullingvessels.

But I personally dont like the idea of oars used in any age of sail game. First of all, because the use of wind makes a more interesting game and plays a common and decisive part in winning a battle for both sides. Second, never-ending discussions on ethics about whiplashing your crew of slaves or prisoners on these wessels would come up. Third and foremost, I would hammer my computer to pieces in frustration, if my wind-driven ship were up against an oar- or dieseldriven wessel in such weatherconditions.
Not very fair, is it? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

<img src="http://navalhistory.dk/images/Episoder/Englandskrigene/brig_angibes.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
HMS Tickler, the first of ten warships and a larger number of merchant wessels captured by gunboats in conditions of no wind, Great Belt 1808. A very annoying way to be defeated...
 
<!--quoteo(post=324280:date=Jun 1 2009, 03:40 PM:name=PeterWillemoes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PeterWillemoes @ Jun 1 2009, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=324280"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The galleys, galeoths - oar-driven wessels in general - have always proven necessary in the some waters, especially the middleterrainean. Sudden lack of wind turns critical in situations. Maybe Holland or Britain did not need these wessels in their territories, but a lot of nations made succesfull use of them all the way up to the 18th century. As ramming-, bombardment or pullingvessels.

But I personally dont like the idea of oars used in any age of sail game. First of all, because the use of wind makes a more interesting game and plays a common and decisive part in winning a battle for both sides. Second, never-ending discussions on ethics about whiplashing your crew of slaves or prisoners on these wessels would come up. Third and foremost, I would hammer my computer to pieces in frustration, if my wind-driven ship were up against an oar- or dieseldriven wessel in such weatherconditions.
Not very fair, is it? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

<img src="http://navalhistory.dk/images/Episoder/Englandskrigene/brig_angibes.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
HMS Tickler, the first of ten warships and a larger number of merchant wessels captured by gunboats in conditions of no wind, Great Belt 1808. A very annoying way to be defeated...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hi,

realism is always fair... And speaking of pirate games in general, there were pirates in every period, with and without oars. Besides, pitting an oared ship vs sailers poses its own challenges.
Imagine what will come if you allow the enemy to rake your oarsmen.

It is a misconception that galley fleeets were totally reliant on slaves and prisoners. For a very long time oarsmen were highly respected, decently paid and treated professionals.
Until a shortage of them forced first to instigate pressing(Venice at the end of 16-th century) and multi-man oars becuse of lower rowing skills. Then convicts. Of course religious enemies were a completely different matter.
Anyways, the ideal always was volunteer, professional oarsmen.

BTW, slavery, corporal punishment and absence of women in combat units and in many other walks of life(particularly in leading positions) was a historical reality and while it may offend many I think that such realism games will attract lots of people sickened by the history being falsified on grounds of political correctness.

Anyway, my setting enables a unique naval game, not seen before and I think this will be enough to attract quite a few people.

Regards, Oldtimer
 
As to the galley's, if you read Rafael Sabatini's 'The Sea Hawk', which is the story he wrote prior to 'Captain Blood', there are detailed descriptions of galley vs. galleon and other 'modern' sailing ships.

Part of the whole reason that other countries hated to sail near Algiers was because of the corsairs that lay in waiting for any unsuspecting ship to lose sail, then the galley's would swoop in and board.

Very nasty fighting, that.

Cap'n Drow
 
Don't even get me started talking about ships with oars ....I could go on for days! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
Let's not punch the plain fact <u>that we can´t make thingy's with oars</u> too deep into the wet cement <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

But I still would like to see my treasure buried, and not handed over to a loanshark - like real pirates did, hehe <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/treas1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":treas" border="0" alt="treas1.gif" />
And it should be possible to make your ship' s speed stall, if you let the years pass with seaweed taking control of your hull, without consulting a shipyard now and then. This might even be achievable visually with textures, until copperplating is introduced?
 
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