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WIP Swedish East Indiaman by Philipjn

I've updated the first post with a link to the model files. Here are the preliminary stats I gave the ship, slightly increasing most of Pinnace1's stats:

Code: 
//-------------------------------------------------------------------------
// Swedish East Indiaman by Philipjn, ported by Armada
//     <SWS - Willemstad Builders' Trials Winter 09 S/N 087> (WBT4)
//-------------------------------------------------------------------------
    makeref(refShip,ShipsTypes[n]);
    n++;
    refShip.Name            = "SwedishIndiaman1";
    refShip.All                = "Pinnace1";
    refShip.SName             = "Indiaman1";
    refShip.id                = refShip.Name;
    refShip.Walk            = "";
    refShip.Class           = 4;
    refShip.Cannon            = CANNON_TYPE_LONG_LBS12;
    refShip.MaxCaliber        = 12;
    refShip.Weight            = Tonnes2CWT(750);
    refShip.Capacity        = 5000;
    refShip.CannonsQuantity = 32;
    // NK cannon qtys 05-04-18 -->
    refShip.Cannons.Borts.cannonf.qty = 0;
    refShip.Cannons.Borts.cannonb.qty = 2;
    // NK <--
    refShip.MaxCrew         = 200;
    refShip.MinCrew         = 45;
    refShip.Price           = 60000;
    refShip.HP              = 3500;
    refShip.SP              = 200;
    refShip.Jetty            = false; // PB

    refShip.BigPicTexName = "SHIPS4"; //Armada
// KK -->
    refShip.BI.Tex = 10;
    refShip.BI.Pic = 13;
    refShip.QDeck = "ShipDeck6";
    refShip.CannonsDeck = 1;
    refShip.CargoHold = 1;
    refShip.Cabin = "Cabin2";
    refShip.Flags.Mast3.Flag1 = FLAG_PENNANT;
    refShip.Flags.Mast0.Flag1 = FLAG_ENSIGN;
// <-- KK

    //Period
    refShip.period.0 = 0.0; //
    refShip.period.1 = 0.0; //
    refShip.period.2 = 0.2; //
    refShip.period.3 = 0.6; //
    refShip.period.4 = 0.4; //
    refShip.period.5 = 0.0; //
    //Nation
    refShip.england = 0.5; //
    refShip.france = 0.5; //
    refShip.holland = 0.0; //
    refShip.portugal = 0.3; //
    refShip.pirate = 0.0; //
    refShip.spain = 0.0; //
    refShip.america = 0.0; //

    refShip.Model = "SwedishIndiaman"; // KK
    refShip.Type.Trade = true;
    refShip.Type.War = false;
    refShip.CanBuy        = true;
    refShip.CanEncounter    = true;

    refShip.WaterLine = 0.0;
    refShip.SpeedDependWeight = 0.3;
    refShip.SubSeaDependWeight = 1.3;

    refShip.GeraldSails.rey_a2    = 1;
    refShip.GeraldSails.rey_a3    = 1;
    refShip.GeraldSails.rey_b2    = 1;
    refShip.GeraldSails.rey_b3    = 1;

    refShip.RigType = "Bat";

    if(iRealismMode>0 || REALISTIC_SHIP_INERTIA){
        refShip.SpeedRate        = 10.0;
        refShip.TurnRate        = 65;
        refShip.InertiaAccelerationX    = 4;    refShip.InertiaBrakingX        = 0.5;
        refShip.InertiaAccelerationY    = 1.9;    refShip.InertiaBrakingY        = 0.5;
        refShip.InertiaAccelerationZ    = 2.5;    refShip.InertiaBrakingZ        = 2.0;
    }else{
        refShip.SpeedRate        = 12.6;
        refShip.TurnRate        = 29;
        refShip.InertiaAccelerationX    = 0.2;    refShip.InertiaBrakingX        = 2.0;
        refShip.InertiaAccelerationY    = 7;    refShip.InertiaBrakingY        = 6;
        refShip.InertiaAccelerationZ    = 4.0;    refShip.InertiaBrakingZ        = 3.0;

    }

// Review: Vessel configured as:
// high seas cruiser, deep draft V-hull, moderate turn circle (WBT4)
//     <SWS - Willemstad Builders' Trials Winter 09 S/N 087> is henceforth complete
// on this day and date Jan 1 2010, 1046h

The ship actually has 32 guns once you include the stern chasers. The periods and national encounter chances are also up for debate; the ship is supposedly mid-18th century, so I used periods 2, 3 and 4 as a loose approximation. For nations, I'm up for suggestions on any additional colour schemes we could use.
 
@Armada the stats you gave it are mostly reasonable, but the price and weight are too low maybe. Compare with the current light east indiamen

NL_BataviaLight East Indiaman 5 2500 5000 28 18 54 200 11.0 10.2 30 65 140800
available in spanish main and golden age.

That's 140800 cost for a smaller vessel, though it does have bigger cannons.

Which actually might point to a more fundamental pricing problem for ship prices in general, looking at the pinnace costing 1/3 the amount for the current light east indiamen. Maybe the bermuda sloop was not so much an isolated case.

I think Grey Roger gave great stats (with maybe lowering crew size a bit) to allow it to fill a useful niche as a tier 5 light east indiamen with more cargo.

Do you think the model size warrants a tier 4 instead? Is it bigger than the current normal (not light) east indiamen, or the same size?

Given how great the model is, if the size warrants a tier 4, I'd say let's make it a more expensive upgrade on the current normal sized east indiamen. Linking the expensive but best quality ships with the best models makes sense.
 
Armada said:
For nations, I'm up for suggestions on any additional colour schemes we could use.
Click to expand...
Can she be "greened up" for Holland? She's a merchant ship after all. :cheeky
Plus the English EITC might be quite excited to get their hands on her too.
 
Tingyun said:
Do you think the model size warrants a tier 4 instead? Is it bigger than the current normal (not light) east indiamen, or the same size?
Click to expand...
Stat wise, those figures from @Armada make it smaller than the Batavia / Light East Indiaman - weight 750 compared to the Batavia's 1050. That's probably due to it having smaller cannons, which in turn means less weight on higher decks so less need for ballast below. A merchant wouldn't want an unnecessarily large crew; they'd want to be payed, and all that extra salary eats into profits. Since tier is, I believe, currently dictated purely by crew size, the Swedish East Indiaman should probably remain tier 5. If you want a more combat-capable ship, get one of the other East Indiamen!

As for prices, the basic pinnace is very much a pure merchantman. From my point of view as a pirate/privateer, it's a target, nothing more. The East Indiaman, be it the Batavia or the regular Heavy East Indiaman, is a much more worthwhile ship, carrying heavy armament as well as plenty of cargo - especially the Heavy East Indiaman. (Playing in "Spanish Main" or "Golden Age" periods, that's one of my favourite ships to use.) As for the Batavia, it's capable of carrying 18lb cannons, which is pretty heavy artillery - the Heavy East Indiaman only has 12lb guns, though it has more of them. The Pinnace can only carry 9lb guns, and not many of them. All things considered, the low price for the Pinnace compared to the East Indiamen is entirely justified - it's the cheap option for merchants who don't want to pay for improved protection. (And it's easier to capture, which means the market for second-hand Pinnaces is rather more saturated than the market for second-hand Heavy East Indiamen. :D)
 
Grey Roger, all of that makes sense, especially on the pricing of the pinnace. :)

Sorry, By referencing ship tier I was using it as a shorthand for whether we balance cargo size and stats against the tier 5 light east indiamen or the tier 4 normal east indiamen.

For example, if the model is larger or similer to the normal east indiamen, then the 4000 cargo setting you porposed is a bit low, given the cargo and cannons on the normal east indiamen, since this one has less cannons and would also have less cargo. In that case, we'd want to increase the cargo amount.

But if the model is smaller than the normal and comparable to the light, then your stats seem perfect, with crew size perhaps reduced to be less than the light east indiamen.
 
Last edited:
Just for info: It must be this one which they built a replica of. The original was named Götheborg and built 1738.
 

Attachments

  • Götheborg.jpg
    Götheborg.jpg
    227.5 KB · Views: 276
Nice find Jack Rackham!

That really helps out. Here is a quote from wikipedia:

"Götheborg was built at the Terra Nova ship yard in Stockholm and launched in 1738. According to writer Björn Ahlander, it only took about one and a half years to build a ship of this size in the 1700s. It was built in the Swedish capital and named Götheborg because the Swedish East India Company resided in Gothenburg, and all expeditions began and ended at this port. The ship had a tonnage equivalent to about 830 t (1,830,000 lb). On its maiden voyage in 1739, the ship carried 30 cannons and an initial crew of 144.[13]"

The for eras, golden age and colonial powers.

Crew size should probably be centered around that 144, not sure where to set the max and min. The replica has 80, so maybe do min 50 max 180 or something like that?

Not sure how to understand the weight and size in relation to the current game balance, it not being entirely historical/realistic for game balance purposes, and is probably best determined by what she is being balanced against. Further stats here Götheborg (ship) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Based on the ship's size and number of guns, I originally envisaged it becoming a "normal" East Indiaman, sitting somewhere between the Light and Heavy variants.
If the Light version can carry 18lb guns, maybe that needs to be reduced to balance things out a bit?

Grey Roger said:
Stat wise, those figures from @Armada make it smaller than the Batavia / Light East Indiaman - weight 750 compared to the Batavia's 1050.
Click to expand...
I'm never sure how to choose a weight value, so it probably should be higher in this case.
 
Given that size Armada, I'd say let's give her more cargo capacity than the normal east indiamen, since she has much fewer guns, and crew sizes reflecting the historical data.

Otherwise noone will want to use her--crew salaries are low enough in the game that they never compare to cargo capacity for profits. She can't be both weaker fighting and lower cargo than the normal east indiamen. Unless we make her significantly faster.
 
Last edited:
Anxious to get this ship in game, I basically went for a union of Grey Roger's and Armada's thoughts, making her an intermediate step between the light and heavy. I did decrease here crew size, in line with historical amounts and the need for more cargo space less crew quaters, and went with a cargo amount halfway between Grey Roger and Armada's proposals ( 4500 ) . I then made her a little faster by 0.5 that the batavia. So it ends up being more cargo oriented than the light, as suggested by grey rogers, and also essentially a better merchant than the heavy (only 500 less cargo but substantially faster), at the price of being much weaker in a fight. I used the light east indiamen base stats for most of it. I then made her substantially more expensive than the pinnace (for the better defenses and much better speed, but kept it in line with merchant ship prices according to grey roger's points, so 75000. This is MUCH less than any of the other east indiamen. I also made her substantially more fragile than the the others, at 3000 hp, balancing her lower price and better merchant capabilities.

//-------------------------------------------------------------------------
// Swedish East Indiaman by Philipjn, ported by Armada
// <SWS - Willemstad Builders' Trials Winter 09 S/N 087> (WBT4)
//-------------------------------------------------------------------------
makeref(refShip,ShipsTypes[n]);
n++;
refShip.Name = "SwedishIndiaman1";
refShip.All = "Fleut1";
refShip.SName = "Indiaman1";
refShip.id = refShip.Name;
refShip.Walk = "";
refShip.Class = 4;
refShip.Cannon = CANNON_TYPE_LONG_LBS12;
refShip.MaxCaliber = 12;
refShip.Weight = Tonnes2CWT(1100);
refShip.Capacity = 4500;
refShip.CannonsQuantity = 32;
// NK cannon qtys 05-04-18 -->
refShip.Cannons.Borts.cannonf.qty = 0;
refShip.Cannons.Borts.cannonb.qty = 2;
// NK <--
refShip.MaxCrew = 170;
refShip.MinCrew = 40
refShip.Price = 75000;
refShip.HP = 3000;
refShip.SP = 200;
refShip.Jetty = false; // PB

refShip.BigPicTexName = "SHIPS4"; //Armada
// KK -->
refShip.BI.Tex = 10;
refShip.BI.Pic = 13;
refShip.QDeck = "ShipDeck6";
refShip.CannonsDeck = 1;
refShip.CargoHold = 1;
refShip.Cabin = "Cabin2";
refShip.Flags.Mast3.Flag1 = FLAG_PENNANT;
refShip.Flags.Mast0.Flag1 = FLAG_ENSIGN;
// <-- KK

//Period
refShip.period.0 = 0.0; //
refShip.period.1 = 0.0; //
refShip.period.2 = 0.3; //
refShip.period.3 = 0.2; //
refShip.period.4 = 0.0; //
refShip.period.5 = 0.0; //
//Nation
refShip.england = 0.5; //
refShip.france = 0.5; //
refShip.holland = 0.0; //
refShip.portugal = 0.3; //
refShip.pirate = 0.0; //
refShip.spain = 0.0; //
refShip.america = 0.0; //

refShip.Model = "SwedishIndiaman"; // KK
refShip.CanEncounter = true;
refShip.CanBuy = true;
refShip.Type.Trade = true;
refShip.Type.War = false;

refShip.WaterLine = 0.3;
refShip.SpeedDependWeight = 0.3;
refShip.SubSeaDependWeight = 0.9;
refShip.TurnDependWeight = 0.8;

refShip.GeraldSails.rey_a2 = 1;
refShip.GeraldSails.rey_a3 = 1;
refShip.GeraldSails.rey_b2 = 1;
refShip.GeraldSails.rey_b3 = 1;

refShip.RigType = "Bat";

if(iRealismMode>0 || REALISTIC_SHIP_INERTIA){
refShip.SpeedRate = 10.7;
refShip.TurnRate = 65;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationX = 4; refShip.InertiaBrakingX = 0.5;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationY = 1.8; refShip.InertiaBrakingY = 0.5;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationZ = 2.5; refShip.InertiaBrakingZ = 2.0;
}else{
refShip.SpeedRate = 11.5;
refShip.TurnRate = 30;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationX = 0.2; refShip.InertiaBrakingX = 2.0;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationY = 7; refShip.InertiaBrakingY = 6;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationZ = 4.0; refShip.InertiaBrakingZ = 2.0;

}

// Review: Vessel configured as: East Indiaman
// high seas cruiser, deep draft V-hull, better turn circle (WBT4)
// <SWS - Willemstad Builders' Trials Winter 09 S/N 159> is henceforth complete
// on this day and date Jan 2 2010, 1146h

Do these stats work, or does anyone want to edit and reupload their ships_init.c afterwards?

Attached the current version.

Question: I noticed some ships seem to be missing a refShip.TurnDependWeight entry, do they just default to 1.0 then?


Also, other than @Grey Roger creating the picture, @Pieter Boelen said we need a shipyard description. Could someone point me in the direction of the file to edit for that?
 

Attachments

  • Ships_init.c
    771.9 KB · Views: 244
@Armada Testing the ship in game, at night there are flashing blue lights that appear all over the back windows of the ship. Maybe I did something wrong with the ship stats in the attached file to cause this? Could someone look it over and make sure I didn't do anything wrong?
 
Description is in RESOURCE\INI\TEXTS\English .
Can't remember the exact name of the file, but it should be obvious from the filename.

Ship stats are unlikely to trigger weird visible effects.
Could you show a screenshot indicating the affected area?
 
Hi Pieter,

I uninstalled everything, so not easy to make a screenshot now. I can describe it in detail though, and it is really easy to observe in game. If @Armada still needs a screenshot then I will reinstall and make one later, but let's see if I can avoid tha exercise. Also, it is about flickering/flashing lights, I'm not sure a screenshot captures that dynamic effect well.

Description: on the back of the ship, there are of course many windows representing Windows to the cabins. At night, they light up as blue, and then they flicker/flash on and off in a weird way as the camera makes tiny adjustments, like flashing blue little lights, maybe 50 of them.
 
In that case, it might be an issue with the model itself.
If two surfaces are very close together, the game could get confused on which of the two is supposed to be drawn in front of the other. :facepalm
 
@Tingyun, those revised stats look good to me. :onya

Tingyun said:
Description: on the back of the ship, there are of course many windows representing Windows to the cabins. At night, they light up as blue, and then they flicker/flash on and off in a weird way as the camera makes tiny adjustments, like flashing blue little lights, maybe 50 of them.
Click to expand...
They definitely wouldn't be actual lights, so it sounds like a geometry issue with the windows. I'll have another look at the model and see what needs fixing.
 
@Tingyun, I had a quick look at the model in Maya, and I couldn't find any problems with the window glass. There were no extra faces layered on top of them, and they're facing the right direction. I tested the ship in-game again, and the windows look normal to me during the day and at night, so I'm not sure what's happening your end.

Could you please post a screenshot?
 
@Armada I think now I know what the problem was--I tested it when there was still the cannon loop bug going on, which was looping endlessly and dropping my FPS to 12. it was probably that low FPS that caused it. Now that that the cannon bug that caused it is fixed, it looks great again. :)

Sorry about sending you on a wild goose chase, I didn't think of that possibility. I didn't even realize there was a bug or the dropped fps at the time.
 
OK, good to know it's working for you, now. I've updated the files in the first post with better locator placement for "rey_a3", so the main sail has a more correct shape.
 
So with all of this, do we have everything we need?

@Armada, did you include the suggested ships_init.c entry in there?
And was there a Ship Interface Screenshot already?

Anyone care enough to try and make a ship walk file? Or shall we do without one for the time being?
 
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