WIP Soleil Royal

[Hylie Pistof]

Oh. No I can't do that either.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Captain Maggee used to be able to, if I recall.
Try with the version of the model from the FTP; she might still be on there.

 

[Armada]

Well it looks like the original modeller's folder was deleted from the FTP, and I can't seem to find the model anywhere else.
I'll send Captain Maggee a PM and see if he can help.
Failing that, do you know if the original CoAS version works correctly in TOOL?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The COAS version is probably the same files as from the FTP; they didn't need to do any further adjustments, I think.

 

[Armada]

It's been a while since I've said anything in this topic, so here's an update.

I've recently managed to acquire four parts of the ship, split up from the hull, necessary for the OBJ export process (each has less than 50,000 faces).
However, it appears that a fifth part is required, but it's well and truly corrupted, so cannot be separated from the hull for the export process.
That basically means I have about half the hull assembled in Maya, which is not much help when trying to re-export it to GM in one piece.
This was only made possible thanks to Baste's cooperation, since he has a computer capable of reading the corrupt hull model in TOOL.
We even tried to use the current hull, and remove the flag locators, so we could transfer them to a different part for the PotC pennant locators to work, but to no avail.

So, this leaves me with two remaining options.
The first one is to try the CoAS version of the ship, to see if it's any more likely to work with TOOL. That way would be more preferable.
The second option is to finish off the half-model manually in Maya (or another modelling program). That relies entirely on a modeller's kind help, and it's a huge task to undertake.

I'd like to try Option 1 before having to use the second one as a last resort. So, can anyone with CoAS send me their version of the Soleil Royal (NOT the stock 'SoleyRu')?

 

[Peter Willemoes]

So, can anyone with CoAS send me their version of the Soleil Royal (NOT the stock 'SoleyRu')?

Coming right up! Its in my PotC ftp-folder, could´nt find yours

EDIT: the textures came along as well, although your´e not likely to be in need of them.

 

[Armada]

Thanks for that Peter.
My FTP folder is still in my old forum name, Experienced Captain. I just didn't change it because of breaking links I'd posted to it.

It seems the hull model is exactly the same as the PotC version, though. Same locators, same file size, etc. Still corrupted.
That means I'm pretty much out of options, unfortunately. There's nothing more that can be done with the model as it is.

I'll have to ask a modeller to fix the ship.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I just ran into this little blurb on The Adventures of Tintin: Secret of the Unicorn:

The ship in the bottle and the Unicorn are based upon the "Soleil Royal", a large French ship of the line that was launched in 1669.

Does anyone think there's any truth to that? Here's some pictures for reference:

 

[HundertzehnGustav]

... soleil Royal was too massive... Like Bismarck or Yamamoto, was she not supposed to be the end-it-all, sink-em-all warship?
looking at this one
http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/296321/LaLicorne.jpg

there is some resemblance.
but the rear end is way lower, les pompous,...
naah. a copy it isnt. loosely based on...? maybe?

maybe Hergé was inspired by a similarly large ship, built a hundred years later, when such representative ships as the SR were no more in use?

also compare this interpretation of the Licorne, topdown View in one of the lower posts suggests an overall smaller size ship.

Check this page...
The unicorn he builds , and whic closely resembles the piece in the books, is here described as a third rate SOTL...
http://www.forum-auto.com/automobile-pratique/modelisme-modeles-reduits/sujet10165-280.htm

and a third rate SOTL ... can that be compared to the Soleil Royal?

heck, there is also a series of booklets that describes how to build one for amateur builders...

some proper beardscratching here...?

 

[modernknight1]

That is most definately the Soleil Royale. Even though she was built to be the ultimate ship, she didn't really live that long unfortunately. She was too conspicuous I think. She was ganged up on by the combined Anglo-Dutch fleets at the end of the Battle of Barfluer (1692) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Barfleur_and_La_Hogue that ending in the Action at La Hogue. A combined flotilla of 17 ships attacked her and the several warships defending her.

The HMS Lenox is one of the ships that was in the thick of it. There is a picture of Soliel Royal burning in my Flickr set for the Lenox. See this thread to find the photostream. http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/hms-lenox-1678.19872/#post-440921

MK

 

[HundertzehnGustav]

SR... never liked that sucker, much like the La Couronne.
My gut tells me "pompous, monstruous, inefficient, expensive pieces of representative skills and art".
And Licorne as interpreted by Hergé does not convey this image.
I for one can not see the paralels, so let me expand my thoughts.
[without the intention to offend, or step on other peoples intricate knowledge - and without the book at hand, i last held it about 20 years ago as a Kid. I shall difg up an illegal PDF variant somewhere on the interwebzz]

The la Licorne, as drawn in the Books seems to me a bit smaller for one. Like our COAS "Poseidon" maybe. (But hopefully not as unmanoevrable!)
and i keep my focus on the original - the piece drawn by the Moviemakers is of no help i think, because it is already an interpretation of an old perspective picture, and not an objective representation of what can be seen in the book at all.

Licorne, the ship i drew many times as a Kid...
http://www.x-comics.de/bilder/produkte/gross/Tim-und-Struppi-10-Das-Geheimnis-der-Einhorn.jpg

SR, the majestic inspiration
http://www.modelships.de/Soleil_Royal/gDSC00444.jpg

where i can see the connection Licorne - Soleil Royal:
-The general shape of the rear side windows and entire gallery. French, Frencher, Frenchiest. I regret that Hergé never dared to paint Licorne from a rear quarter - at least not that i remember; i would have been all over that thing. But he always chose the "action/dynamic" Viewpoint. even when the small red Pirate Vessel came into play, he never dared to show the rear end of Licorne. Why, is beyond me - the man could draw, that much is sure!
- The Paintjob and choice of colors. so obvious.
- Obvious Paralels of other Objects in the Hergé world. The plane in Flight 714 for ecampleis a mix of A-5, F-14 or Mirage G... so he defnitely based Licorne on something Real, entirely or in part

where i think the Licorne differs so much that my gut says the inspiration came from a smaller/different/later ship:
- The top gundeck is missing entirely, making her lower, less powerfull, probably several feet shorter, in general smaller. Making licorne a NOT capital Warship.
- The rear decks are less high, maybe there is one deck missing or even two, making the general shape more rounded and modern (cf. current Mordaunt/Licorne stand-ins)
- The bow section, and its details. On the SR, the bowsprit is kind of integrated in the construction.
- First the piece with the SR Figurehead, then another piece of wood. Then the Pieces that are built to encompass the Bowsprit. It is a massive and very very distinctive setup that many models, if not all, have strived to replicate. Licorne is much simpler in its construction, even if the Image conveys a sense of being richly decorated
- Numbers of guns carried. There are two darwings in the Licorne book that show the ship in its entirety - the cover, and later an entire page dedicated to only Licorne. Hergé painted these ships by hand, and counting gunports to decide the influence is not helpful. However - if Licorne had the 100+ Cannons on two full decks, and a dozen or so on the rear and fore parts of the ship, then therev are an awful lot of gunports missing. about 8 per side and deck

So, if in my eyes, SR is not the father of Liconre - what the hell ELSE do i think might be?
I mean, it is simple to say "No, your idea is wrong". Coming up with a plausible idea oneself is much harder.

What could have led to Licorne , i think, are ships like "Le Fourageux". Yea. 3rd rate as said earlier. Kind of "sisters" to my beloved Bellona. Call me biased...
Not so much by detail, but by overall size and layout.
http://gloryships.com/GS-V1.0/ships/horizontal/04-french-74-guns/french-74-guns-06.jpg

- the rear end is still very much "french" yet not as castle-like as the Soleil Royal...
- two full decks and a large bunch of smaller cannon fore and aft
- gun ports numbers

Or other ships like the "Achille" - which i view to be younger than licorne... but still of similar size and capacity.
Even if SR was the "uber" French ship, and remains on par with Victory in the UK... must one not be careful of their popularity, and not quickly connect other ships to them? Not every british Cruiser of WWII had its roots in the Hood or King george V either
Much less Imaginary ships used by an artiste to tell a story

 

[HundertzehnGustav]

all in all... knowing for sure where the man took his inspiration from will remain undefined - unless you manage to get an answer from him.

 

[HundertzehnGustav]

screw me! screw most of what i said.

found a book, in PDF version, and Haddock's story and what he tells, ruins all my thoughts.
The timeframe, the image of haddoque senior and the ship besides him and the images make the source of Licorne clear.

still!
no third gundeck...no way in hell this is a ship as big as the Soleil Royal.
Check the last page.
lower deck: 10 cannon.
Intermediate deck, 12.
rear end... 10 ?
forecastle... 4?

Never does that make 104 cannon as claimed for the Soleil Royal, not even if you add two cannons up front and the two visible at the rear. (below the name)
74? possible 80? maybe... depending on how accurate the images are.
This is still most defintely a smaller ship than Soleil Royal...

A third Rate strongly based on the Soleil Royal configuration and shapes.

 

[Seb]

Ahoy lads! Longtime no see isn't it? (Archeology is a time-consuming muse) I put my nose out of my books of medieval history to stop by in modern era

Hergé said he used the plans of the vessel le "Brillant" (The "Brilliant") as an inspiration for his "Licorne", a 60 guns ship built in Le Havre in 1690 by the master carpenter Etienne Salicon. The Bowsprit is inspired by the frigate "HMS Unicorn" that we already have in POTC thanks to Pggargon.

Her plans are still existing at "Historical Service of the Defense" in Vincennes, I got them and those are attached to this post with those of "la Licorne".

A model of le "Brilliant" can be seen at the maritime Museum in Paris and the Tintin magazine published some plans for the imaginary Unicorn in the 60's. Let's compare :

​

Here is le "Brillant"​

Spoiler

Some drawigns of Le Brillant made by Jean Berain in the beginning of the XVIIIe century :

The Bow

The quarter galleries

The stern galleries

The plans :

Now la "Licorne"​

​

​

Spoiler

​

​

​

​

The plans of la Licorne :​

​

Bow :​

​

​

Stern :​

​

​

As we can see, the two ships have a lot similarities, especially concerning the bow and the stern and quarter galleries as usual Hergé used a lot of documentation to draw what he had in mind correctly and create is own vessel...

If anyone feels the desire to undertake her construction, you're now free to go! The work I did is a bit outdated, the ship I used doesn't correspond to la Licorne and I did that with poor skills, as I could, with the stuff I could... She surely deserve better

 

[Bava]

The stern looks like it could be one of the 54 or 60 gun ships I´ve seen in 'Les vaisseaux de Luis Quatorze'.
I'll have a look at it this evening

Edit: Dang, ninja´d by Seb.

 

[Seb]

You were in

 

[Pieter Boelen]

In this case, I was mainly thinking of the Unicorn seen in the new Tintin film as that is what the note was about.

 

[BlackHawk]

In this case, I was mainly thinking of the Unicorn seen in the new Tintin film as that is what the note was about.

got a question..in the Build 14 Beta 2.2 in shipyard u can not repaint the Soleil Royal with the black and red French colors..was wondering if their will be a fix for that

 

[Pieter Boelen]

There is only one version of the Soleil Royal in the game. No repaints are available, because there are no other skins to choose from.

 

[HundertzehnGustav]

woah! what a pile of info!
...awesome.