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Ships or boats

Navegador

Navegador

Sailor Apprentice
Hello everyone

I've been looking at all the great ship models some of you guys make and was wondering about something...well something suggestive at least, Dutch ships of the 17th century, mind you, I'm not dutch my self, just someone who loves the "Van der Veldes" and they're drawings and paintings.

Anyway the truet is I dont know if you guys got these ships already in the combined mod but still if you would permit me to make a unbled suggestion? And not get mad at me, I know I'm not modelling or contributing.

The ships would be -

Brederode - Maarten Tromps flagship, she was from the 50's I beleave
Zeven Provincien - from the 60's, De Ruyter flagship
Walcheren - from the 60's
Eendracht - sister to the Brederode
Hollandia - from the 60's, Tromps the younger flagship
Liefde
Delft

and they're are many more but I just leave with these suggestions
 
We do have the Dutch Line Ship by Yo Ho Ho which is patterned after a Dutch 2nd rate Man O War from about 1660. She very much looks like the Walcheren. She is a beautiful model. I think the best in the game. We also have a couple pinnaces that resemble small mid 17th century Dutch trading ships. In addition there is a model of the Zeven Provincien, but it isn't very good and resembles the 1620s French Man O War St. Louis much more.

My two favorite ships are Hollandia and Zeven Provincien and I would die to have one of them modelled. I was so inspired by our modellers here that I've been taking an on line course on MAYA for the last year. Learning a lot. My goal is to eventually build my own and for them to actually look good.

My hopes are that pgargon will build one or two of those Dutch beauties for us eventually.

I'm hanging picture folders up for our modellers. Take a look at my Flickr sets.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49225014@N05/sets/

MK
 
I'd definitly like some of those as well. We've got some very nice Dutch ship models, but more are always better.
However, our modelers need plans of the ships they make, because without that, they can't make them as accurate and detailed as they want.
If you can help us find any such plans for them, that'll vastly increase our chances of seeing those ships. :yes
 
@ modernknight1
I'd like to Hollandia or Zeven Provincien build but I need a plan. A plan ribs of the ships, like the Pinnace of you. Of course I need the dimensions and the sail plan. :rolleyes:
 
pgargon said:
@ modernknight1
I'd like to Hollandia or Zeven Provincien build but I need a plan. A plan ribs of the ships, like the Pinnace of you. Of course I need the dimensions and the sail plan. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I will get them for you pgargon! The last time I was in Amsterdam I bought a GIANT book (2 feet by 3 feet and two inches thick) at the Scheepvaart Museum (best maritime museum in the world BTW with more models than Greenwich UK, New Bedford and Annapolis combined). This huge tome is all written in Dutch, which forced me to buy a Dutch/English dictionary to stumble through it. The book is the most comprehensive work/information source on the Zeven Provincien ever compiled and shows every angle of every bit of framing and every detail and decoration you can imagine. The book is more illustrations than text. I don't have it here with me in DC, but now that you've made the offer, I'm having it sent to me immediately so I can scan it for you. Give me a week and I will have plans for Zeven Provincien along with more pictures than you can believe. :will

MK
 
modernknight1

I've looked in your flickr folder, imprecive collection you have and its about the same that I have, finding stuff online and scans from some books, the Van der Veldes drawing and paintings.
Well I've looked for plans too but so far havn't had much luck sadly, I have 2 books, the one on the four days battle of 1666, "The Distant Storm" second anglo-dutch war, it has many drawings from the Veldes and some paintings, english, dutch and some french, danish, swedish ships, the books is from Frank L. Fox.
The second book is "The 50-gun ship" from Rif Winfiels, it has some references to 17th century shiping but goes into much deep detail with 18th century shiping and its much more about english ships, still it goes into detail on the early frigates, mentions the Mordant for one and explains about the dunkirkers as priveteers with they're incredible early frigates. It also uses a lot of Veldes drawings and many navy royal wood models.

As far as I've learned it is dificult to find plans, at least original from the time period, they were rare, not just in Holland but every where, from Portugal to Spain to Sweden or France. It seems ships up until the 18th century were built via passed knowledge from ship builder to ship builder, but of course you guys love sailing ships so you know this already, sorry.

As for modern studies and compiled plans they aren't much more but there's a growing interest in these, I remember back in the late 1980's here in Portugal the goverment wanted to build 2 or 3 caravels and no one could find plans or good references, they ended up having to spend time and money on studying the mater.

I´ve seen some of pgargon models and from other modelers here, they look great, beautiful really :onya , that's why I made this post, a few famous dutch ships with that quality would look really beautiful, I love the Hollandia and Zeven Provincien too, but there's more out there, the Liefde and Jaarsveld come to mind.

I´ve seen the Zeven Provincien you mention, and yes its not really historical, I'll keep a look out for the Dutch Line ship, right now I'm sailing the La Licorne, a gracious lady and I gave her the "Bermuda special" already. :dance

Pieter Boelen

I have plenty drawings and paintings and some pics of models, like the models from the diorama that modernknight1 has on his flickr folder, I can send you guys these if you want, as for plans sadly I don´t have any. I was hopping a modeler could do a miracle.


SuperDurnius

Now you´ll get even mader, look at the size of my post :shock , I'm stoping right here, thank you for reading.
 
@modernknight1
No problem. Take your time. Meanwhile, starting with the Dutch Pinnace. :onya
@navegador
you welcome. :rolleyes:
 
@ navegador, Good sources you cite. I have them. Not to brag, but there are not many books about sailing ships I don't have. The Flickr sets are only going to grow. I will be adding photos to the sets already posted. In addition, you'll be happy to know I'm not just working on a Zeven Provincien folder/set, but also one for the Brederode and the Aemelia as well. I am working on 5 different folders for 17th century English ships also. Keep checking. I hope to make my sets a source that everyone enjoys using and looking at.

@ pgargon, Last night when I called to have more books sent to me (including the megabook), my brother found a set of plans for a large Dutch warship just entitled "Dutch Zweidecker". He's sending those as well, so I may have a plan for Hollandia or a similar ship for you as well. I am very excited you're going to take on a pinnace!!!! :will I'm sure it will be the best in the game! I am honored to help you.

How is the Apostel Felipe coming along?

MK
 
@modernknight1
I have very little time at the moment (Oktoberfest!) , but it's missing is the SAILORSPOINTS for Apostol Felipe . The ship is ready. :onya
 
pgargon said:
@modernknight1
I have very little time at the moment (Oktoberfest!) , but it's missing is the SAILORSPOINTS for Apostol Felipe . The ship is ready. :onya
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Ahhh, Oktoberfest! :cheers I wish I were there. It's been over ten years now since I was last in Munich for Octoberfest. What fun. I loved watching the mechanical knights joust under the clock at the Rathaus. I went five years in a row in the 90s. Have a good time! :drunk

Anyhow....

I can't remember the name of that big French looking ship with the REALLY high poop deck. It is a neat ship with a long beakhead, large figurehead and a rediculously long stairway (Literally stairs not ladder) from the quarter deck up to the poop. It's got royal blue gunwales and big gold "fluer de lis" decorations. (I'm not talking about Soliel Royal. This one is completely different and is one of the old original AOP ships. I'll find out it's name. The sailorpoints for that ship might work pretty good with the Apostel Felipe depending on the length. If you give it to us we could play with the sailorpoints.

MK
 
modernknight1

I envy you, I wish I had more, there's another book from Fox on the 17th century navy royal, "ships of Charles the second" I beleave its called, there's only one edition from 1979, anyway on second hand this book goes for the modest quantety of 400 euros, but it most be a wonderful book.

I'll keep checking your folder for sure :keith , you have plenty of interesting material there, by the way I'll leave here a link to a blog that may be interesting for you guys if you don't know of it already and if its okay to post the link -

http://www.sailingwarship.com/

By the way is the French ship you are mentioning the Saint Philippe? 1660?
 
I envy you, I wish I had more, there's another book from Fox on the 17th century navy royal, "ships of Charles the second" I beleave its called,
Click to expand...

Its 'Great Ships: The Battle Fleet of King Charles II', I think. And yes, its a bit pricey :p
Here´s a cheaper one about the same period: Clickme!
Dunno if its any good, though.
 
Bava said:
I envy you, I wish I had more, there's another book from Fox on the 17th century navy royal, "ships of Charles the second" I beleave its called,
Click to expand...

Its 'Great Ships: The Battle Fleet of King Charles II', I think. And yes, its a bit pricey :p
Here´s a cheaper one about the same period: Clickme!
Dunno if its any good, though.
Click to expand...

I have both of them. I bought Great Ships (published in 1981) in of all places a used book store in Oklahoma City in 1996. I had just come back from Bosnia. It wasn't so expensive then. I think I payed 35 bucks for it.

I bought the Restoration Warship from Amazon last year. Both books are great. Great Ships is more comprehensive and even discusses and illustrates some Dutch Ships in the opposing navy. Restoration Warship is very good but concentrates almost completely on one ship, the HMS Lenox, a 4th rate. This book has almost every drawing the Van de Veldes ever did on British ships. I'd be willing to bet that every painting of an English 4th rate ever done, appears in this book. It's still very good though. I will be able to provide enough thorough plans of the Lenox that if a modeler wants to do it they can. That was low priority for me in the sets I'm hanging because we already have a bunch of Mordaunt variants, which are similar to the Lenox.

@navagador: No it's the San Phillip (Apostel Felipe) a Spanish Galleon from circa 1585. She was one of the Armada Galleons. She was one of the actual newly built Spanish ships, not one of the Portuguese Carracks that the Spanish used as a result of Portugal being annexed by Spain because of succession issues. Ships of her particular size and style would have continued in use up to the 1640s. Pgargon has done a beautiful job on her. Look at the pictures posted on that forum title. :mm

Thanks for the links Mateys.

MK
 
Bava

Yes thats the one, veryyy pricey, thank you for the link

modernknight1

35 bucks :woot lucky you, I think it can only be found second hand, they should reedite the book, the price would go down.
Yes we contributed with a few ships and crew for that crazy project called the mighty armada.
I've seen the San Phillip by Pgargon, one more beautiful ship :yes
 
I think I payed 35 bucks for it.
Click to expand...

*cries*

Now thats what I call a good buy :p
And thanks for the info about the 'Restoration Warship', its on my to-buy list now.

This book has almost every drawing the Van de Veldes ever did on British ships. I'd be willing to bet that every painting of an English 4th rate ever done, appears in this book.
Click to expand...

Btw, the NMM recently updated their Van der Veldes online collection, most of the 1500 paintings/drawings/skechtes can even be enlarged now. For anyone interested, here´s a link to the works of van de Velde, T.Y.: Click

I think it can only be found second hand, they should reedite the book, the price would go down.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. For example, the reprint of Steel´s treatise on shipbuilding is for sale at ~ 1,200 dollars . Okay, its 19.6" x 20" and weighs 25 pounds, but still a tad expensive :p
 
That is a good link Bava. Thanks! I looked there a few years back, but all those grisailles and drawings were not there at that time. I have tried to get Abraham Storck's "Four Days Battle" (my favorite painting) in a large print for years, but no one offered it. They do now. I ordered it today.

YES! :will

My big book and plans will be here on Wednesday. Expect several new sets of photos on Flickr next Thurs/Friday.

MK
 
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