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Ship Upgrade

True, speed does depend on the weight quite a bit.
Perhaps the Edinburgh should be the faster vessel in that case, due to its lighter hull and armament.
But there shouldn't be a huge difference; say 1-2 knots faster.

I just looked up the Bounty's stats, and found that she's classed as a Merchant vessel.
In fact, most of their stats are exactly the same; equal cargo capacity, gun quantity, gun calibre, and class.
Plus, the Edinburgh already is slightly faster than the Bounty.
However, Bounty has less crew, which seems odd.
So maybe we could make some small adjustments to make sense, here. :shrug
 
The HSM Bounty was hardly a naval vessel either; part of the navy, yes, but not actually armed as such or ever intended to be used in battle, I think.
 
Even if gun quantity was reduced for this famous expedition (I cant find any info from before it) as a light vessel depending on speed, cannon quantity would be the main difference.
 
For reference, here are their stats

Bounty:
//-------------------------------------------------------------------------
// HMS Bounty - By ZarethPL
// <SWS - Willemstad Builders' Trials Winter 09 S/N 052> (WBT2T) - small ship rigged courier
//-------------------------------------------------------------------------
// PS -->
makeref(refShip,ShipsTypes[n]);
n++;
refShip.Name = "HMS_Bounty";
refShip.SName = "Bounty";
refShip.id = refShip.Name;
refShip.Class = 7;
refShip.Walk = "Bounty"; // PB & back84
refShip.Cannon = CANNON_TYPE_LONG_LBS4;
refShip.MaxCaliber = 4;
refShip.Weight = Tonnes2CWT(350);
refShip.Capacity = 1250;
refShip.CannonsQuantity = 14;
refShip.Cannons.Borts.cannonf.qty = 0;
refShip.Cannons.Borts.cannonb.qty = 0;
refShip.MaxCrew = 28;
refShip.MinCrew = 6;
refShip.Price = 15200;
refShip.HP = 1000;
refShip.SP = 200;

refShip.BigPicTexName = "SHIPS1"; // EC
// KK -->
refShip.BI.Tex = 10;
refShip.BI.Pic = 7;
refShip.QDeck = "ShipDeck6";
refShip.CannonsDeck = 0;
refShip.CargoHold = 1;
refShip.Cabin = "Cabin3";
refShip.Flags.Mast3.Flag1 = FLAG_PENNANT;
refShip.Flags.Mast4.Flag1 = FLAG_ENSIGN;
// <-- KK

//Period
refShip.period.0 = 0.1; //
refShip.period.1 = 0.4; //
refShip.period.2 = 0.7; //
refShip.period.3 = 0.9; //
refShip.period.4 = 1.0; //
refShip.period.5 = 1.0; //
//Nation
refShip.england = 0.5; //
refShip.france = 0.5; //
refShip.holland = 0.5; //
refShip.portugal = 0.5; //
refShip.pirate = 0.0; //
refShip.spain = 0.5; //
refShip.america = 0.5; //

refShip.CanBuy = true;
refShip.CanEncounter = true;
refShip.Type.Trade = true;
refShip.Type.War = false;

refShip.WaterLine = 0.0;
refShip.SpeedDependWeight = 0.3;
refShip.SubSeaDependWeight = 0.3;

// Brigs were difficult to sail upwind. But this one has an immense number of stays
refShip.ClosestPoint = 0.265;
refShip.BestPoint = 0.75;
refShip.RigType = sDet;

if (!bArcadeMode){
refShip.SpeedRate = 11.5;
refShip.TurnRate = 105;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationX = 4; refShip.InertiaBrakingX = 0.4;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationY = 2.4; refShip.InertiaBrakingY = 0.5;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationZ = 2.5; refShip.InertiaBrakingZ = 2.0;
}else{
refShip.SpeedRate = 13.8;
refShip.TurnRate = 37;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationX = 0.2; refShip.InertiaBrakingX = 2.0;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationY = 12; refShip.InertiaBrakingY = 8;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationZ = 5.0; refShip.InertiaBrakingZ = 4.0;

}

// Review: Vessel configured as:
// full square-rigged barque schooner, V-hull, moderate turn circle (WBT2) - no penalty to turning circle due to not-so-fine hull shape
// square rigger - does not handle as well upwind, compensate with stays and spanker
// <SWS - Willemstad Builders' Trials Winter 09 S/N 052> is henceforth complete
// on this day and date Sunday Dec 25 2009, 1144h

Edinburg Trader
//-------------------------------------------------------------------------
// Edinburg Trader by ZarethPL - Texture by D4V1DXxX - sails as light brig
// <SWS - Willemstad Builders' Trials Winter 09 S/N 074> (WBT2T)
//-------------------------------------------------------------------------
makeref(refShip,ShipsTypes[n]);
n++;
refShip.Name = "Edinburg";
refShip.All = "HMS_Bounty";
refShip.SName = "Bounty";
refShip.id = refShip.Name;
refShip.Class = 7;
refShip.Cannon = CANNON_TYPE_LONG_LBS4;
refShip.MaxCaliber = 4;
refShip.Weight = Tonnes2CWT(350);
refShip.Capacity = 1250;
refShip.CannonsQuantity = 14;
refShip.Cannons.Borts.cannonf.qty = 0;
refShip.Cannons.Borts.cannonb.qty = 0;
refShip.MaxCrew = 32;
refShip.MinCrew = 7;
refShip.Price = 15200;
refShip.HP = 1000;
refShip.SP = 200;

refShip.BigPicTexName = "SHIPS2"; // EC
// KK -->
refShip.BI.Tex = 10;
refShip.BI.Pic = 7;
refShip.QDeck = "ShipDeck6";
refShip.CannonsDeck = 0;
refShip.CargoHold = 1;
refShip.Cabin = "Cabin3";
refShip.Flags.Mast3.Flag1 = FLAG_PENNANT;
refShip.Flags.Mast4.Flag1 = FLAG_ENSIGN;
// <-- KK

//Period
refShip.period.0 = 0.1; //
refShip.period.1 = 0.4; //
refShip.period.2 = 0.7; //
refShip.period.3 = 0.9; //
refShip.period.4 = 1.0; //
refShip.period.5 = 1.0; //
//Nation
refShip.england = 0.5; //
refShip.france = 0.5; //
refShip.holland = 0.5; //
refShip.portugal = 0.5; //
refShip.pirate = 0.0; //
refShip.spain = 0.5; //
refShip.america = 0.5; //

refShip.Type.Trade = true;
refShip.Type.War = false;
refShip.CanBuy = true;
refShip.CanEncounter = true;

refShip.WaterLine = 0.0;
refShip.SpeedDependWeight = 0.3;
refShip.SubSeaDependWeight = 0.3;

// Brigs were difficult to sail upwind
refShip.ClosestPoint = 0.295;
refShip.BestPoint = 0.9;
refShip.RigType = sDet;

if (!bArcadeMode){
refShip.SpeedRate = 12.45;
refShip.TurnRate = 105;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationX = 4; refShip.InertiaBrakingX = 0.4;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationY = 2.4; refShip.InertiaBrakingY = 0.5;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationZ = 2.5; refShip.InertiaBrakingZ = 2.0;
}else{
refShip.SpeedRate = 13.8;
refShip.TurnRate = 37;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationX = 0.2; refShip.InertiaBrakingX = 2.0;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationY = 6; refShip.InertiaBrakingY = 4;
refShip.InertiaAccelerationZ = 5.0; refShip.InertiaBrakingZ = 4.0;

}

// Review: Vessel configured as:
// Small brig
// <SWS - Willemstad Builders' Trials Winter 09 S/N 074> is henceforth complete
// on this day and date Thursday Dec 31 2009, 2118h

When i first looked at this I didnt know the "if (!bArcadeMode)" stats were the realistic stats. So i said the Bounty was faster when it was not.

Looking over the differences again, about the only thing that puzzles me is;
Bounty
// Brigs were difficult to sail upwind. But this one has an immense number of stays
refShip.ClosestPoint = 0.265;
refShip.BestPoint = 0.75;
refShip.RigType = sDet;

Edinburg Trader
// Brigs were difficult to sail upwind
refShip.ClosestPoint = 0.295;
refShip.BestPoint = 0.9;
refShip.RigType = sDet;

The bounty sails significantly closer to the wind and has a different best point of sail, despite visually identical sails. If the real bounty was indeed modified to be better sailing into the wind, perhaps this should be reflected in the ship models or at least in some kind of description.
 
Clarifying on an older post in this topic regarding the Xebecs....

the Xebec3 model is indeed of Arabic origin. I'd say possibly Turkish, though just as likely any country of Islamic origin [more likely Mediterranean though considering the fact it's more colourful]. that dark blue plaque around the middle of the side of the hull, has Arabic writing. in the picture provided it's showing the reversed side, so it's hard to determine. but on the opposite side, the correct side, it says something related to god. possibly the popular Muslim term 'There is no god but God', considering Allah, in Arabic, is clearly written there. so yes. I'd guess turkish. which would make sense, considering the most notable Pirates of the period in that region were Turkish [IIRC, Barbarossa, the man for which Cpt. Barbossa is named, was Turkish].


as for the xebecCT, i'm not sure. But i'm fairly certain those are celtic patterns. the endless knots and what i believe is a variant of a popular celtic symbol [the name of which i've forgotten and can't seem to find at present]. so perhaps it's meant as a nod towards ships operating in that region at the time?
 
On the Xebec, youre probably right as the Barbary corsairs, sometimes known as Ottoman corsairs, are regarded as evolving the Xebec from Galleys. However, they operated from North Africa - Tunis, Tripoli and Algiers - which had just come under Ottoman rule in the 16th century. Their attacks were widely spread and their purpose was capture of slaves, of which they captured some 800,000 to 1.25 million, according to wikipedia, between the 16th and 19th centuries. In part it had to do with the reconquista. Incidentally, this also involved the earliest uses and development of the frigate, also from galleys. The barbary corsairs are a bit of a microcosm to the state of affairs of the time - spain was consistently the target while Britain and France took advantage of their growing naval supremacy to end the threat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_corsairs

Interesting read on the Xebec too;
The xebec owes much of its design to the earlier galleys and galleasses of the Mediterranean. The root of the name probably comes from an Arabic word for 'small ship', and is rendered into English in three forms: 'xebec', 'chebec', and 'zebec', though the word exists in many other languages as well, indicating its popularity (or at least knowledge of its existence) in the rest of Europe.
These ships had long narrow hulls, and were fitted with oars like their galley predecessors. They were intended to be fast and maneuverable, whether under oar-power or under sail.
17th and 18th century Christian shipping in the Mediterranean was threatened by the Barbary corsairs, who were Muslim pirates based in Northern Africa. The vessel of choice for these pirates in the early days was the galley, whose oars allowed them to overtake merchant vessels caught in light wind. But as time wore on, the trading nations responded to the threat by deploying warships to tackle the corsair problem. Galleys were swift and carried many men, but were not designed to stand up to the broadsides of modern warships.
In response, the Barbary Corsairs evolved their galleys into a new design that would stay competitive with the warships sent against them. In order to mount broadside guns, they widened the hull for extra deck-room and stability, and they removed many or all of the rowers to make room for broadside guns. These changes shifted the motive power of the vessel away from oar-power and onto the three huge lateen sails. And thus, the graceful and distinctive form of the xebec was born.
Their foremasts are typically raked forward, while the main and mizzen were either straight or raked slightly back. The massive lateen yards were so large that they were frequently composed of two spars lashed together -- more like masts than typical yards. Most xebecs did not have a bowsprit, but their beakheads frequently featured a long prow.
A few of the western nations tried square sails on the xebec's mainmast and sometimes even the mizzenmast. The square-rigged mainmast would have topsails and even topgallants, and the mizzen would have a square topsail (while still maintaining the lateen lower-sail). A xebec rigged this way was known as a Polacre-Xebec.
Commonly, though, the standard lateen rig for xebecs had a single triangular sail on each mast, and had none of a square rig's topsails or topgallants. The lateen rig offered many advantages over the square rig, the most significant of which was the ability to pinch far closer to the wind than square sails could. This meant they could both quickly catch up to and quickly flee from square-rigged vessels when sailing close to the wind.

The corsairs favored the xebec for its speed and maneuverability, and for its shallow draft which also aided in escaping larger vessels. These qualities were recognized by many of the European navies, and the vessel was quickly adopted into the Mediterranean squadrons as commerce-raiders and anti-piracy cruisers. As warships, xebecs mounted as many as 36 guns on their topdeck. Depending on the weight of the guns, this made them competitive with naval sloops of war, and even with some of the frigates of the day.

The xebec under sail was a beautiful sight, and it is said that the design was one of the fastest and most agile in the Mediterranean. Some of the same qualities that made it so successful in light seas also made it unsuitable for rough weather. The low freeboard and the shallow draught made the vessel vulnerable to swamping, and it would roll heavily on anything more than moderate waves. Thus, the advantages that the xebec has inland make it a poor choice for open-ocean sailing.

Xebecs were also lightly-built vessels. Unlike the massive, bulky timbers of ships of the line, xebecs were delicate and graceful. They were gazelles, not war-horses. Their tactics in battle reflected this. Xebec captains were loath to engage a foe of equal armament in a gun-battle. Instead, they relied upon their speed, maneuverability, and sweeps to pick their battles, and deposit large numbers of boarders on the decks of their enemies.

The xebec's qualities of speed and shallow draught, and the ability to sail extremely close to the wind, are highly prized by traders as well -- particularly those engaged in the coastal trade and its close cousin, smuggling. While it requires a somewhat larger crew, and has a smaller cargo capacity than other vessels of similar size, its sailing characteristics and combat ability make it an excellent choice for those interested in a swift and powerful coastal vessel.

Historically, the xebec was not well-represented in the Caribbean. It wouldn't have easily made the crossing from Europe, for one thing. A xebec captain risked outright sinking in rough seas and bad weather, far from the somewhat calmer waters of the Mediterranean that the ship was designed for.
http://www.thepirateking.com/ships/ship_types.htm
 
as for the xebecCT, i'm not sure. But i'm fairly certain those are celtic patterns. the endless knots and what i believe is a variant of a popular celtic symbol [the name of which i've forgotten and can't seem to find at present]. so perhaps it's meant as a nod towards ships operating in that region at the time?
Thank you for help. I wouldn't recognize if its celtic or norse - theyre just dirty pagans for me ;)

in the picture provided it's showing the reversed side
Yeah... I failed nice
 
as for the xebecCT, i'm not sure. But i'm fairly certain those are celtic patterns. the endless knots and what i believe is a variant of a popular celtic symbol [the name of which i've forgotten and can't seem to find at present]. so perhaps it's meant as a nod towards ships operating in that region at the time?
Thank you for help. I wouldn't recognize if its celtic or norse - theyre just dirty pagans for me ;)

in the picture provided it's showing the reversed side
Yeah... I failed nice

nah. to my knowledge, you can't read Arabic, and even if you could, it's very low resolution, so it's difficult to read. so it's not a fail :j2


Xebec3 was supposed to be Barbarossa's.

That explains it then. Not really surprising.
 
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