• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


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Serious Build Bugfinding Effort

I don't know what would work the most efficient. That's why I need some input from you people. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=219102:date=Oct 27 2007, 02:36 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 27 2007, 02:36 PM) [snapback]219102[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know what would work the most efficient. That's why I need some input from you people. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Reason why I would go by the thread is my own experience with playing the game - drifting, sometimes quite a lot from the main quests, and having simple fun with treasure hunting or junglehicking just curious how different weapons work... taking different letters of marque just to go against the game and get hunted by the English ... in other words just having fun. Result is that I have tackled the different quests at different Pchar levels and noticed that they do not perform similarly. Animist quest for instance - a classic - when delayed until Pchar level 14 with a line ship should meet and defend the barque at Oxbay against satanist ships, froze because the very barque... surrendered!!!... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
That is why I figure that separate threads dedicated to speciffic issues, but with several approaches could be the proper way to obtain a really fine tunning of the game.
Should also be easiers for the bugfixers to use the speciffic threads in order to provide guidance for the testers.

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" />
 
On the Bug Tracker it is possible to post a bug, then discuss it right there. It's sort-of similar to a forum thread in a way.
 
I am in, and for the bug tracker, discussing it here (the bug tracker is not for discussions:-( ).
 
Nice Sukayo <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Did IncredibleHat find somebody to replace him as manager of the bug tracker? I think we need a new category for this purpose?
 
I'll vote for using the <a href="http://swankyplace.com/potcbugs/main_page.php" target="_blank">bug tracker</a>, since it's already there; with the caveat that we have someone assigned to be the "owner" of the <a href="http://swankyplace.com/potcbugs/main_page.php" target="_blank">bug tracker</a>. I think this will give us a better audit trail for the bugs encountered and fixed. And it seems to have been used in the past with a good deal of success.

We could also have a dedicated thread for each "test phase" to discuss more details and have comments from other users.

BTW, what will be the naming convention for the "testing phases"? Will we now name this the Build 14 Beta?

kevin
 
[attachment=1238:piratefamily.jpg]

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> Hard to argue with the quality of the bug tracker! Worked in the past - provided with the very game I'm happy for -surely can get the job done for the future. Certainly appropriate for removing coding missmatches. Bug tracker for posting and thread for ideas seems to be the ideal combination. The way I was regarding the threads was based on the assumption that tunning would be considered at the same time. Let's take the pump-gun in 14a7+full for an example: Beautifull picture for quality average - missing picture for other qualities since the texture values don't compute up and down. Fixing the values for remaining qualities would be bug tracking. Moving the pump gun on the outside of the tables would be a common decision. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> ... and since strong weapons have been discussed at some point - has anybody tried to change the damage value of the blunderbuss and the take a potshot at an eventual attacker in the townsquare?!... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> Nobody left to talk to then, but a huge pile of loot and a large body count and you can forget about the reputation <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
What I am getting at is that some tunnig based on the gained gaming experienced could easily be done along with the bugfixing - in which case a thread seems the right choice.
But as i mentioned before this was an assumption. I am confident in in any approach the moding/bug fixing team chooses, so they just let the testers know how to comply based on the current schedule.
What to test and when to test would automatically be a decision of the moding/bugfixinf team ... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> ... again I assume
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
 
I personally have got all access needed for the Bug Tracker to do everything we need to. However, I don't really want to do everything myself. I don't want to have to run the Bug Tracker AND compile the test versions AND moderate the forum AND do some modding of my own next to my schoolwork. That seems a bit much to me. So would anybody else be willing to be the Bug Tracker manager? How about KevinAtlanta? Or Short Jack Gold? They both have much more experience with program development than I do.
 
that looks like me on the far left of that pic. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":))" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" /> personally, i'm for using a topic, because it's easier to discuss it here on the forum and easier to access.
 
I have no real objection to using the bug tracker. My concern is that it will turn into a “sub-forum” with comment after comment on a specific bug.
Personally, I would be happy to use the tracker as a log for the bug itself – date – bug symptom – who is handling it etc., but, then discussing the problem in more detail here on the forum. The assumption being that several people, if not all, will experience the same problem. If not then differences, in play method (how a player got to a particular part of the quest, level etc.), can be isolated to determine the issue.
As Pieter has correctly stated we need players/testers to run the program at different levels and approach the quest(s) through different routes.
My concern then, is for the Tracker itself getting clogged with comments and discussion.

I am willing to manage the tracking part of the project however it is finally decided to apply the tracker with the following reservations:
My time at weekends is very limited, (almost zero), so I won’t be much use then.
I am on a much later time zone than most of the esteemed members here, so my actions will appear to be slow with respect to response time.
I will be very pedantic on how a bug is reported –
(no reference to any player or incident intended here, just given as an example)
“got a black screen in Oxbay” won’t be acceptable as a report.
A better report would be:
“Standard Oxbay start - Returning to Oxbay after first meeting with Governor. Got a black screen when entering town – level 4 – apprentice” would be time saving and more helpful.

I also think that all players/testers should take the game to the same point at the same time.
For example – Main Quest – play through till back at Redmond Port after sinking French escort ship. There are several playable variables to this point.
If all player/testers can get to this point successfully without bugs, given that they will have been at different levels (apprentice, journeyman etc.), different start points (Oxbay, Other Island, Stormy), then we can reasonably assume we are bug free to that point and will then be free to move on to the next milestone. (At Redmond Port after reporting to Governor with French Spy for example).
A positive input from players/testers will be just as valuable a a bug report in trying to isolate a given situation.

Repeating the above later , as functions/items/quests are added will also give a better indication as to where a given bug is.

If that is acceptable to you. I will take the Bug Tracking Project on.
 
<!--quoteo(post=219291:date=Oct 28 2007, 03:29 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 28 2007, 03:29 PM) [snapback]219291[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->“got a black screen in Oxbay” won’t be acceptable as a report.
A better report would be:
“Standard Oxbay start - Returning to Oxbay after first meeting with Governor. Got a black screen when entering town – level 4 – apprentice” would be time saving and more helpful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Point taken and terms accepted, for my part. Such insufficient reports on the bug tracker should be deleted in order to maintain a proper communication flow between testers and bugfixers (not to be taken personal - I would call it "education" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> )

<!--quoteo(post=219291:date=Oct 28 2007, 03:29 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 28 2007, 03:29 PM) [snapback]219291[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also think that all players/testers should take the game to the same point at the same time. For example – Main Quest – play through till back at Redmond Port after sinking French escort ship. There are several playable variables to this point. If all player/testers can get to this point successfully without bugs, given that they will have been at different levels (apprentice, journeyman etc.), different start points (Oxbay, Other Island, Stormy), then we can reasonably assume we are bug free to that point and will then be free to move on to the next milestone. (At Redmond Port after reporting to Governor with French Spy for example).
A positive input from players/testers will be just as valuable a a bug report in trying to isolate a given situation.
Repeating the above later , as functions/items/quests are added will also give a better indication as to where a given bug is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In that case, we should test the various scenarios very thoroughly. I can´t imagine it would be fun to any of us, if a random player accesses the forums in 2 months after the build is finished with a bug report that leads to doing things all over again from scratch. My goal is to make a rock stable Build, whatever it takes. Including loads of time.
 
I can take on a backup role on the BugTracker to SJG. Also, I'd be willing to help out Pieter with compiling some of the test versions.

kevin
 
That would be brilliant. Are you two registered on the Bug Tracker? Under what names? I will see to it that you get Administrator access level. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

If you could help compiling the test versions, that'd be great Kevin! I am always tempted to put in cool stuff that might be unstable, which usually in results in me releasing crappy versions or having to compile it all over again. STUPID! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":modding" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=219338:date=Oct 28 2007, 02:44 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 28 2007, 02:44 PM) [snapback]219338[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That would be brilliant. Are you two registered on the Bug Tracker? Under what names? I will see to it that you get Administrator access level. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

BugTracker username is the same as here: "KevinAtlanta"

<!--quoteo(post=219338:date=Oct 28 2007, 02:44 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 28 2007, 02:44 PM) [snapback]219338[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you could help compiling the test versions, that'd be great Kevin! I am always tempted to put in cool stuff that might be unstable, which usually in results in me releasing crappy versions or having to compile it all over again. STUPID! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":modding" border="0" alt="modding.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

OK

kevin
 
<!--quoteo(post=219340:date=Oct 28 2007, 09:23 PM:name=KevinAtlanta)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KevinAtlanta @ Oct 28 2007, 09:23 PM) [snapback]219340[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->BugTracker username is the same as here: "KevinAtlanta"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Ah; I see you've registered. I gave you administrator rights, so you can now do everything on the Bug Tracker. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=219338:date=Oct 28 2007, 02:44 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 28 2007, 02:44 PM) [snapback]219338[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That would be brilliant. Are you two registered on the Bug Tracker? Under what names? I will see to it that you get Administrator access level. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm registered as Short Jack Gold.
 
And you now also have adminstrator access. Thanks in advance to the both of you. And the other people willing to help with the testing, of course. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
Yes, thanks a lot to everybody taking part in this project. Focussing on mod stability and quality instead of quantity is probably the best way to promote the Build.

And I wouldn't be offended at all if some of my mods are being taken out of the Build, should they be considered unbalanced or buggy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> (Saves me the abusive complaints, I won't say by whom <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /> )

I'm afraid I am to worn out to take any leading role, but I am willing to help with the bugfixing.
 
<!--quoteo(post=219291:date=Oct 28 2007, 04:29 PM:name=Short Jack Gold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Short Jack Gold @ Oct 28 2007, 04:29 PM) [snapback]219291[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I will be very pedantic on how a bug is reported –
(no reference to any player or incident intended here, just given as an example)
“got a black screen in Oxbay” won’t be acceptable as a report.
A better report would be:
“Standard Oxbay start - Returning to Oxbay after first meeting with Governor. Got a black screen when entering town – level 4 – apprentice” would be time saving and more helpful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not pedantic at all, it is in everybodies interest. The more accurate the reports are the more bugs can the few debuggers squash. I would in addition ask everybody to post the last entries of the errorlogs as well. With an errorlogentry you often can find a bug within minutes.
 
Listen to CCC! He knows what he's talking about! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":bow" border="0" alt="bow.gif" />

I am not aware of any obviously unstable mods by CCC though. The only mod that is occasionally being complained about is the BuildingSet mod and I refuse to have that removed from the Build: It is fun and it works and it has a toggle for those who do not want it.
 
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