Guide Selected ship plans, plan websites, and other resources

Post Captain · May 2, 2012

From memory, I believe it was the 70's. It's amazing what modern antifouling and marine paint can do. It's also gotten relatively little use compared to a frigate of that time.

Captain Armstrong · May 2, 2012

True, very true, shame it doesn't still sail much anymore. judging by what can be found online, it used to sail to all parts of the world as the Rose

KrisWood · May 4, 2012

I've been unable to use the forums on my phone since the forum switched to the new format. Since I almost never get time on my computer anymore that means I haven't been able to follow the thread or reply to suggestions that I suggest some ships from earlier periods. I've got a fairly lengthy list and don't have time to post them now but here's number 1 on my list, and I'd be willing to at least model the hull and the structure of the stern gallery and head:

HMS Victory 1737
Admiralty Draught
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/79935.html

Copy of the admiralty draught H.F. Chapman with decorations apparently based on a contemporary model (since the ship had already sunk ten years earlier by the time he visited)
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/79936.html

Contemporary model:
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66410.html

I've got extensive research into this one just never had the time to make all the fiddly bits to do it justice. If anyone wants to collaborate...?

I'll post of list of all my favourite ships' plans later.

Armada · May 4, 2012

I'd love to see that Victory in the game! She would even make a great replacement for some/all of the stock 'manowar' models. :dance

Let's hope someone will be interested in collaborating to make the ship...

Captain Armstrong · May 4, 2012

Very neat! I've noticed this ship too browsing the NMM plans collection. The wreck may has actually been discovered recently, and according to this article what is left might be raised too :dance

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1876515,00.html

Armada · May 5, 2012

According to this more recent article, the wreck IS due to be recovered. In that sense, an accurate model here would be a fitting tribute.

Bava · May 31, 2012

Dutch 22 gun frigate Scipio, 1784
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/74304344/Plans/Schcipio 40 guns.jpg

Dutch 36 gun frigate jason, 1770
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/74304344/Plans/Jason 40 guns.jpg

Dutch 46 gun two-decker, 1740?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/74304344/Plans/Fregat46guns.jpg

Dutch East Indiaman 1750?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/74304344/Plans/Fregate14guns.jpg

Dutch East Indiaman 1750?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/74304344/Plans/Fregat_Body.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/74304344/Plans/Fregat_Sheer.jpg

Dutch 40-gun two-decker, 1740?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/74304344/Plans/Fregate40guns.jpg

Tons of other plans for dutch ships can be found here:
http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=page.collections&collection=technischetekeningen
Search for "technische tekening, fregat" or "technische tekening, oorlogschip"

French Demi-Batterie, 1748
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/74304344/Plans/DemiBatterie - 1748.jpeg

English 60 gun ship 1730?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/74304344/Plans/English60guns.jpg

French 24 gun ship 1780?
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/385585.html

French Ambuscade, 1744 (modelled the hull for this one not long ago, nice looking ship)
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/82055.html
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/82057.html

French Advice Prize, 1704 (modelled the hull for this one too, a real cutie

Captain Armstrong · May 31, 2012

Wow, some really nice plans! great to see some dutch ones, they seem to be more difficult to find than french and english designs. especially that website with all the dutch plans! great stuff :onya

The flore of 1760 seems particuarily sleek :keith

EDIT:
Just looked through some frigate plans on that dutch site, and here are some nice ones I found

Bava · May 31, 2012

Yeah, the Flore looks really nice. I couldn´t add my absolute fav as it's already in your OP (the Aigle). Kinda fell in love with her lines

Oh, forgot to add this site to my post above: http://threedecks.org/ Great research tool!

Captain Armstrong · May 31, 2012

ah yes, that site is great for fact-checking and research!
You mean this aigle? http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/82594.html
I rather like her lines too

according to wikipedia, she was built as a privateer(a giant one at that! o_O

) and later bought into the french navy then captured by the brits. It appears her designer (Sane) later designed the Venus of 1782, and the subsequent ships of that class, and the hull form of the Aigle and those ships seems to be very similar, though they have slightly different dimensions.

Bava · May 31, 2012

Yes, thats the one

But the length of 150 feet on threedecks.org seems to be wrong. There´s an Aigle built in 1778 in History of the French Frigate with 137 feet, which is much more believeable. And youre spot on with the lines, Sané designed a "master-plan" for frigates in....uhm, 1774 IIRC and used it for all of his vessels. Model one and you have all

Captain Armstrong · Jun 1, 2012

Well according to robert gardiner's book the heavy frigate, she had a length on deck of 147'5" a breadth of 39'1" and a depth in hold of 12'2", weighing in at about 1001 tons. there were earlier measurements taken off when she was first captured, which gave 150" as the length on deck, but Gardiner thinks that this was likely an exaggerated meausurement to get more prize money and make the frigate seem even bigger than she was. when captured she actually carried 24 24 pdrs on the main deck, though of course they were too big to be practical for a ship of that size and later replaced by 28 18pdrs.

Bava · Jun 1, 2012

Made a mistake, the 137 feet in Boudriots book are pieds du roi, not imperial feet, so it`s the same vessel :facepalm

But it should be a 12 pounder frigate. Did Gardiner cite any source for the heavier armament?

The only other 24-pounder + frigates around 1780 I know are the South Carolina and the french Forte and Ordenance (both were cancelled shortly after the keel had been laid down, though).
And the swedish Bellona-class, of course. Hm, hm...

Captain Armstrong · Jun 1, 2012

well the 24 pdrs were not the original armament, and they were too heavy for the ship. originally she mightve carried 12 pdrs, and did for a short time in british service. However she was soon rearmed with 18pdrs in british service. Gardiner's citations are as follows:
24 pdrs when captured: NRS Barham I, p210
12 pdrs in british service: established with 26x12pdrs (by admiralty order? about 1790)
18 pdrs in british service: rerated as a 38 and armed with 28x 18 pdrs and 10 9pdrs by admiralty order on 31 december 1792. (with a further 2x 32 pdr carronades being added by admiralty order on 25 January 1793)
I assume this means that gardiner found the admiralty order detailing these changes in some archives.

Bava · Jun 1, 2012

Thank you for the citations! Very interesting, 24 pounders on such a 'little' ship... no wonder they replaced them.

back to topic:
Found this plan today
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/74304344/Plans/Fisgard (Resistance) 1800-1.jpg
Fifth Rate Fisgard, never seen such lines before...

Captain Armstrong · Jun 1, 2012

oh yes, there was a class of french frigates built to those lines. it was of course highly experimental, and they were very large ships. the fisguard herself (ex-fr resistance) was 160ft long on deck. they mightv'e been intended to carry 24pdrs originally, but from what I remember the ended up with 18s. there doesn't seem to be much info on their sailing qualities, though they couldn't have been terrible considering she wasn't sold out until 1814. gardiner does mention that she was "a quick and heavy roller" but that mightve been fixed by re arming with 18pdrs.
a painting of this ship as the french "Resistance" can be seen on this page(scroll down a bit)
http://www.archeosousmarine.net/ethalion.html
a series of sketches by Nicholas Pocock of the HMS Seine (lead ship of the Revolutionnaire's class) taking the french Vengeance (a sister ship of resistance/fisgard)
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/112920.html
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/112919.html
http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/112921.html

Sorry if I called the Aigle little! :oops:

she is a pretty big frigate, it's just that 24pdrs needed a very large hull, the smallest succesful frigate design that had a 24pdr main battery was about 160' on the gundeck, and frigates as long as 164' were rearmed with 18s because the 24pdrs were too big (US Constellation class)

Post Captain · Jun 2, 2012

The relatively scant entry under the water line would have been a cause of much of the extraneous movement. Vessels such as the Black Ball Line's ships and later clippers were notorious for the amount of roll and pitch they experienced. That would explain the "quick" part of "quick and heavy roller." That hull actually bears a faint resemblance to some of the Black Ball ships.

KrisWood · Jun 9, 2012

I think my favourite on the Maritiem Digitaal site is the infamous slave trader Meermin of 1760:

http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=101002923
http://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/wwwo...ritime&value=nsa/A0999\a0149 [nr 0058]_lo.jpg

Now that's a classic Dutch hull

jokash · Jun 11, 2012

I can upload detailed schematics from the anatomy of the ship series books on the following ships:
The naval cutter Alert 1777
HMS Beagle 1820
The 74 gun ship Bellona 1760
The 20 gun ship Blandford 1719
The armed transport Bounty
The royal yacht Caroline 1749
The frigate Diana 1794
Captains Cook Endeavour
32 Gun Frigate Essex 1795
The Bomb vessel Granado 1742
The 24 Gun Frigate Pandora 1779
The Susan Constant 1606
The 100 Gun ship Victory
The 44 Gun Frigate Constitution

jokash · Jun 12, 2012

ok those books are now uploaded and ready for download at COAS FTP the requierd login information is here http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/coas-ftp.15853/

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