Poll Renaming Blackjack

[Pieter Boelen]

OK, I've calmed down a bit. What I was originally going to write might very well have got me kicked off the forum.

No worries.
You could've also kicked me off instead.

Perhaps I should not have set a poll at all - other modders seem to work without asking for opinions, maybe I should do likewise.

I liked the poll. Actually getting also the 'silent' players somewhat involved seems like a very good idea to me.
That's why I posted it to Facebook in the first place; because I know the number of people active here to vote is really very low.
Not really enough to base much of a scientific sample on.

We can see on Facebook who voted which way. We can not see who voted here. There are certainly some folks in the Facebook poll whom I recognise as members here. Should they then get two votes? Or should only one poll be counted? If it's the PA! poll which counts then I'm right to ignore the Facebook poll. If the Facebook poll is the one which counts then it could set a dangerous precedent:

I don't use Facebook and have no intention of ever doing so. I'm probably not alone. If Facebook is now to become the place for polls then those of us who do not use it are excluded, both from setting polls and from voting in them.

Thought we COULD see who voted for what here.
But indeed not.
Bit surprised, I am.

Anyway, nobody is asking you to join the Facebook.
That's why @The Nameless Pirate and me are there already.

And I don't imagine that either poll would need to 100% control the outcome.
In the end, it always still comes down to whoever is doing the modding.

It's nice though to show players that they're being heard in some way...

To a limited extent, otherwise what's the point of having distinct periods? Why have we gone to so much effort to try to make the game historically accurate?

From my side: for the sake of variety more than anything else.

 

[BathtubPirate]

Shouldn't it be vingt-et-un instead of vingt-un?

 

[Grey Roger]

Shouldn't it be vingt-et-un instead of vingt-un?

Not in Britain, France or America during the times covered by PoTC:NH. (Spain probably called it "Ventiuno", so that's how it will appear in the Spanish translation of PoTC.)

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Shouldn't it be vingt-et-un instead of vingt-un?

Not in Britain, France or America during the times covered by PoTC:NH.

History is weird.

 

[Levis]

History is weird.

I think case I would argue more for "Languages are weird"

 

[Grey Roger]

Especially when they are corrupted by mispronunciation. The modern British version is pontoon, which apparently got its name from British soldiers in WW1 calling it "vontoon" and subsequently "pontoon".

Meanwhile, I've found a few issues in "gamble.c":

• The rule for the dealer showing the first card face up seems to be unique to blackjack. The game in PoTC originally showed both his cards face down. It seems a bit odd to rename the game and then introduce a rule which only applies to the futuristic version. I'm putting it back to showing both the dealer's cards face down.
• Function 'GetCardValue' was throwing up messages in "error.log" because it exits with 'return Cards[n].value'. 'GetCardValue' is an integer function. Attributes are strings. So I've changed it to 'return sti(Cards[n].value)'. No more error messages apart from the usual one about DLG_TEXT.
• Function 'ProcessCommandExecute' contains a check on 'ValidateCombination'. Only poker should be interested in combinations. I've now put that part inside a condition 'if (gameName == "Poker")'.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I think case I would argue more for "Languages are weird"

Also true.

Especially when they are corrupted by mispronunciation. The modern British version is pontoon, which apparently got its name from British soldiers in WW1 calling it "vontoon" and subsequently "pontoon".

"Vingt-et-Un" becomes "Pontoon"?
That figures.
Deeeefinitely sounds the same.

 

[Grey Roger]

No, "Vingt-Un" becomes "Vontoon", which becomes "Pontoon". "Vingt-et-Un" isn't involved.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

"Vingt-et-Un" isn't involved.

Why wouldn't it have been that before it was "Vingt-Un"???
Even here it is named that: Vingt Et Un: the Original Variant of Blackjack

 

[Grey Roger]

From that article:

Vingt Et Un is the French card game which is considered to be the predecessor of modern blackjack games and which was popular in the 17th century among all aristocrats, including such monarchs as Louis XV and Napoleon.

It's discredited itself right there, since the original was Spanish, and neither Louis XV nor Napoleon were alive in the 17th century.

On the other hand, from Twenty-One (card game) - Wikipedia:

The game is first mentioned by name in a 1611 Spanish dictionary where, under the entry for "card" (carta), it mentions the game of Ventiuno ("twenty-one").
...
The first record of the game in France occurs in 1768 in the Mercure de France, which describes Vingt-Un as fashionable, but "very old", referring to Cervantes' novella.
...
In Britain, the game is also recorded in the 1770s and 1780s, for example in a comedy entitled Dissipation, but the first rules appear in the 1800 edition of Hoyle's under the name of Vingt-Un.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

It's discredited itself right there, since the original was Spanish, and neither Louis XV nor Napoleon were alive in the 17th century.

Nobody can ever seem to get their facts straight these days, can they?

Nobody but you, it seems!

 

[Grey Roger]

Alright, I admit it, I was wrong. Napoleon was a 17th century monarch playing "Vingt-Et-Un", Miguel de Cervantes can't have written anything about "Ventiuno" because the original game was French, and "Pontoon" is probably a version of "Bridge".

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Alright, I admit it, I was wrong. Napoleon was a 17th century monarch playing "Vingt-Et-Un", Miguel de Cervantes can't have written anything about "Ventiuno" because the original game was French, and "Pontoon" is probably a version of "Bridge".

It's a good thing I don't actually care... otherwise I might end up quite massively confused...

 

[SolomonSY]

It's been 2 years since the last reply, but I still wanted to chime in. I think it's a cool idea to consider renaming Blackjack to something more historically accurate for the time period of PoTC. Vingt-Un or Twenty-One both seem like good options, although I personally think Vingt-Un has a nice ring to it. As for the Spanish translation, Ventiuno sounds like a good fit too. And how about incorporating some of the history of the game into its new name? Maybe something like ""Gold Rush 21"" or ""Cervantes' 21""? Just a thought.