Mod Release Quartermaster divide the plunder

[pedrwyth]

..... temporarily change your master at arms to a carpenter so you can berth your ship, then change him to a quartermaster so you can divide the loot, then change him to a surgeon so you can change rations, and then change him back to master at arms so you can fight any random thugs who attack you in the next section of town. Not my idea of a fun game...

Interacting with the officers as characters isn't all that interesting anyway. They all have the same dialog.

I agree and that isn't what I meant. I was simply referring to the dialogue about ship berthing where I find it strange that every officer knows in detail about what ships are berthed. So maybe one officer responsible would know the detail. I wouldn't have any thought of changing the ship interface from actually berthing them etc. but since you can bring up the interface what's the point of the dialogue anyway? I don't know because I haven't used it.

It is easy to imagine that what you are doing is telling the nearest officer to go and give your order to whoever has the job concerned and so anyone will do. Suits me - it wasn't actually my thought to limit dividing the plunder either - just responding to what seemed to be a thought of different people at different times.

 

[Grey Roger]

That's strange indeed!
While you might occasionally find a Master-At-Arms, you should be able to find ANY officer type randomly for hire.

Eventually. Most, not all, officers for hire are Master at Arms. Besides, if I have to learn by doing, so can my junior officers.

Is that such a bad thing though?
Unlocking features along the way does add some progression to the game...

I wouldn't call unlocking features a bad thing. This is because doing so would miss an opportunity to call it a disgustingly awful thing. For this reason I disabled locked perks the first day they were introduced, and apart from the occasional test, leave them disabled.

There is already plenty of progression. Building up skills, adding perks, getting better weapons and armour, so that you can take on tougher opponents and larger enemy ships. Or make more profit from trading, if you prefer a peaceful career.

If anything, I'd be inclined to make the new plunder division system less restrictive and allow a boatswain (responsible for crew discipline) or first mate (your second in command) to also divide the loot.

It should only apply to stuff you can do while on the ship, of course.
For shore, the whole point is that you can just take the fighters and don't have to take your other ones.

You either need to add them to your party so that they'll follow you around; or try to find them on one of the ship decks; or add them to the list of officers who can appear on the increasingly crowded quarterdeck.

Exactly my point.

Not quite. You deleted the bit about them all having the same dialog.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Eventually. Most, not all, officers for hire are Master at Arms.

That still sounds very, very wrong.
The officer types should be somewhat evenly distributed.

You either need to add them to your party so that they'll follow you around; or try to find them on one of the ship decks; or add them to the list of officers who can appear on the increasingly crowded quarterdeck.

They should be in specific areas of your ship deck.
Which would give you a reason to visit those and go talk to your officers there.

Not quite. You deleted the bit about them all having the same dialog.

Well, that's the whole cause; isn't it?
They're all the same.
So why bother interacting with them?

since you can bring up the interface what's the point of the dialogue anyway? I don't know because I haven't used it.

Probably the dialog was added before the interface was added.

 

[pedrwyth]

I've been making a few minor changes to the dialog, e.g. instead of saying "It's time to spread a little cheer among the men and divide the plunder Quartermaster", I have him address the officer by name, "It's time to spread a little cheer among the men and divide the plunder, <insert name here>."

Actually I purposefully put the title, the action about to take place is formal division of spoils and as such deserves some formality. Given the harsh discipline usually portrayed on ships of the age the rather flippant "spread some cheer" was aimed at breaking the tension which has presumably been rising in your crew (unless you regularly give out shares) although not quite mutinous yet. Although since I don't use it I wouldn't be faced with the grating thought in the crew of "Oh no he's going to make his little joke again" each time it came up.

I do not like the use of name generally, it smacks too much to me of the boss who still wants to be one of the boys furthermore in those days unless you had a long or honourable lineage I think your name as a label meant little to you (apart from the sense of "my good name") compared with the prestige from having achieved your position. So far from being a put down it was recognition of your worth in the hierarchy and as such reinforces the role to the nearby crew. Finally I am sure if the crew heard "let's divide the plunder John" there would be some hint of collusion and perhaps the crew weren't quite getting their just desserts.

It is also behind the reason I drew attention to the Captain hardcoding because I'm damn sure that most who achieved higher rank would want that used even if they may technically be the Captain too.


Quartermaster is one of the few that actually work to address the officer - your hardly going to say ,,,,,Carpenter or Navigator.
Boatswain obviously works as does mister Mate ( and here taking that the traditional form of address would still be used for a female). However I can see if you are following your end of opening the dialogue to more officers using the name is a simpler structure to code. Anyway it's a minor matter so in your role as gatekeeper to the code feel free.

 

[Grey Roger]

Here are revised dialog files. You now address the quartermaster by name rather than just as "Quartermaster". This meant I had to split the line so that translations with different grammar can put words after the name if necessary, so I also corrected the line numbers for "qmdivide_new_expedition" - if it's being left in there in case it's needed later, it may as well use the line numbers for "Enc_Officer_dialog.h" rather than the line numbers for "Usurer_dialog.h"! Case "qmdivide" is commented out and can probably be removed entirely later.

Edit, as @pedrwyth was typing at the same time as me: you don't address the quartermaster by first name, but by the more formal "Mr. Gibbs", "Miss Matton", etc. As far as I know, this was standard practice, as you'll see in the "Hornblower" storyline- either that, or just use the surname without "Mr."

@pedrwyth: I'm not sure that limiting it to the quarterdeck is such a good idea - players are unlikely to find that they can talk to the quartermaster about dividing plunder anyway, and disallowing them to do so while ashore won't make that any easier. However, since it's your mod and that was your idea, it can go in. On the other hand...

They should be in specific areas of your ship deck.
Which would give you a reason to visit those and go talk to your officers there.

... a captain would probably not do that. He'd be on the quarterdeck while on duty and in his cabin while off-duty. He certainly wouldn't go looking for officers in their places of work; more likely, he'd send a midshipman or random crewman to bring the officer to him! But if you're on duty on your quarterdeck, it's because you're in sailing mode, on the deck of your actual ship model, where you can't meet officers at all...

 

[Grey Roger]

I do not like the use of name generally, it smacks too much to me of the boss who still wants to be one of the boys furthermore in those days unless you had a long or honourable lineage I think your name as a label meant little to you (apart from the sense of "my good name") compared with the prestige from having achieved your position. So far from being a put down it was recognition of your worth in the hierarchy and as such reinforces the role to the nearby crew. Finally I am sure if the crew heard "let's divide the plunder John" there would be some hint of collusion and perhaps the crew weren't quite getting their just desserts.

Use of the name, especially with the honorific "Mr.", would indeed reinforce the role in the hierarchy - this is an officer, not a common sailor. Nearby crew may need to be reminded of this. As for collusion, the use of the name would be less of a hint than the fact that you're always letting the same officer do the dividing. So would dissatisfaction with the amount they get, which is why they desert if they don't get enough - either they're not getting their fair share or you're a useless captain who can't get a decent amount of prize money to divide.

It is also behind the reason I drew attention to the Captain hardcoding because I'm damn sure that most who achieved higher rank would want that used even if they may technically be the Captain too.

That's worth looking into - maybe replace any "Captain" with "Sir" or "Ma'am". 'GetMyAddressForm(PChar, NPChar, ADDR_POLITE, false, false))' would probably do.

Quartermaster is one of the few that actually work to address the officer - your hardly going to say ,,,,,Carpenter or Navigator.

Matter of taste, I suppose - "Quartermaster" did not work for me, which is why I changed it to 'GetMyAddressForm(PChar, NPChar, ADDR_CIVIL, false, true)' which yields "Mister" or "Miss" (or equivalents for other nations) followed by surname.

Boatswain obviously works as does mister Mate ( and here taking that the traditional form of address would still be used for a female). However I can see if you are following your end of opening the dialogue to more officers using the name is a simpler structure to code. Anyway it's a minor matter so in your role as gatekeeper to the code feel free.

In reality, "Mister Mate" would work for male or female, the reason being that there were officially no female officers so if a woman had managed to get a position on board ship, she'd be disguised as a man and would not want to be found out. If she's being addressed as "Miss" then she's been found out and will probably be dumped at the next port! In the game, realistic or not, we do allow female characters. See Improving gameplay for female player characters for more discussion about that.

 

[pedrwyth]

I think we're at cross purposes here. In my first post I originally had no limit (not even on ship - I first used the tavern where I hired one) where you could action this - just which officer then...

Dividing plunder on your ship's quarterdeck is more realistic than doing it at a loanshark's office. The question then becomes, can the quartermaster be persuaded to appear on the ship's quarterdeck?

So I tried to add that...

@pedrwyth: I'm not sure that limiting it to the quarterdeck is such a good idea - players are unlikely to find that they can talk to the quartermaster about dividing plunder anyway, and disallowing them to do so while ashore won't make that any easier. However, since it's your mod and that was your idea, it can go in. On the other hand...

My emphasis

... a captain would probably not do that. He'd be on the quarterdeck while on duty and in his cabin while off-duty. He certainly wouldn't go looking for officers in their places of work; more likely, he'd send a midshipman or random crewman to bring the officer to him! But if you're on duty on your quarterdeck, it's because you're in sailing mode, on the deck of your actual ship model, where you can't meet officers at all...

It is easy to imagine that what you are doing is telling the nearest officer

or indeed crewmember

to go and give your order to whoever has the job concerned and so anyone will do. Suits me - it wasn't actually my thought to limit dividing the plunder either - just responding to what seemed to be a thought of different people at different times.

I had thought of fetching the officer but the location change required to get them to appear looked a problem.

Since he should be on the ship somewhere it may be a question of adding to the crew dialogue "Send the Quartermaster to my cabin"

OK Mr or Miss XXX

since a location change would be required to get him/her to show up- rather better than you searching your ship for a subordinate I guess. However adding a further dialogue
"Meet me on the Quarterdeck I wish to discuss dividing the plunder" and then get him to follow you - leaving you to decide which part of the deck is most appropriate on any particular deck arrangement - and then continue the dialogue?

Although since I don't use it......

So in summary if you don't think now it should be limited remove the limitation(s).

 

[Grey Roger]

My fault; I didn't make my original suggestion clearer. You may not want to take the quartermaster ashore because he doesn't know one end of a sword from the other, so your shore party is full of fighters. In that case, getting him to show up on quarterdeck may make him easier to find than having to search the other decks. Or perhaps you're at sea, the crew are getting restless because they haven't been paid for a long time, and you want to pay them now rather than wait for the next port. (Which, by the way, is one reason why allowing the quartermaster to divide plunder is such a good idea - if there is no nearby port with a loanshark, you could be in trouble!)

If you do want to take the quartermaster ashore anyway, by all means talk to him about dividing plunder there.

Since you've done the work, the choice is yours - require the quartermaster to be on deck, or allow him to divide the plunder while ashore as well?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

... a captain would probably not do that. He'd be on the quarterdeck while on duty and in his cabin while off-duty. He certainly wouldn't go looking for officers in their places of work; more likely, he'd send a midshipman or random crewman to bring the officer to him!

True.
Technically also means the ability to walk around the ship doesn't serve much purpose...

But if you're on duty on your quarterdeck, it's because you're in sailing mode, on the deck of your actual ship model, where you can't meet officers at all...

The limitations of the game engine.

Or perhaps you're at sea, the crew are getting restless because they haven't been paid for a long time, and you want to pay them now rather than wait for the next port. (Which, by the way, is one reason why allowing the quartermaster to divide plunder is such a good idea - if there is no nearby port with a loanshark, you could be in trouble!)

Playing Devil's Advocate here:
Doesn't that completely negate the risk of mutiny from waiting too long with dividing the plunder?

If I take @pedrwyth's note about "crew not being able to leave while at sea", my suggestion would be to only allow it when you're moored in a port.
Something very similar already applies to ransoming in "Prisoned_dialog.c" through 'bCanEnterToLand' and 'HasSubStr(pchar.location.from_sea, "port")' .

And if that's worked in, perhaps the nation of the port where you choose to do it could have an impact.
For example, dividing in a pirate port will make more crew leave than doing so in any other one.

Could that add a bit more role-playing choices into things?

 

[pedrwyth]

If you do want to take the quartermaster ashore anyway, by all means talk to him about dividing plunder there.

Since you've done the work, the choice is yours - require the quartermaster to be on deck, or allow him to divide the plunder while ashore as well?

This is leading me into an area I have not actually played with - a bit of testing yes but without any insight into the impact in game. The change to LAi_deck should ensure the QM is on deck for you to do the business (although I'm not sure what "seadogs" location is in that context where the QM was already mentioned to appear (and still is)).

I don't think (conceptually) that being able to do this when running through the jungle (or indeed many other scenarios makes game sense) so without getting needlessly complicated I guess I would block the QM from this on land. However I have seen a number of players micro managing their officers (to the extent of placing supporting officers on companion ships) so I can see some would like to take their QM to the store etc (what trouble would you be expecting there?). Putting them in your shore party does seem to make them appear in the cabin on reloading and I'm not sure if that trumps the on deck placement (something to check out I guess)

my suggestion would be to only allow it when you're moored in a port.
Something very similar already applies to ransoming in "Prisoned_dialog.c" through 'bCanEnterToLand' and 'HasSubStr(pchar.location.from_sea, "port")' .

And if that's worked in, perhaps the nation of the port where you choose to do it could have an impact.
For example, dividing in a pirate port will make more crew leave than doing so in any other one.

Could that add a bit more role-playing choices into things?

Doing it while moored may be the best compromise however a further question would be moored where? Pirates I think should be anywhere they can moor (bCanEnterToLand) why should they have to go to a potentially hostile port or all the way back to a pirate port when any quiet cove would do. Privateers maybe should be more limited? To ports? and only those for where your letter(s) of marque applies or neutral nations as well (not sure on the codecheck for this one) because that's what the (original) crew presumably signed on for - not to end in some hostile territory? This just brings a little more change between the two styles but @Grey Roger would have a better overview of how this would affect his style at least.

So that's my twopenny worth - on ship (anywhere) but the QM is normally on deck however in the cabin if that's where they are instead.
The ship to be moored if pirate, and moored at friendly or neutral port if a privateer (so they gain not needing a loanshark port) perhaps the loanshark code would need the same limitation else a player could just go there in a hostile port and circumvent the intention. Does that make any sense?

Further thought should a Privateer be allowed to use a pirate port for this - I don't see why they should.

 

[Grey Roger]

True.
Technically also means the ability to walk around the ship doesn't serve much purpose...

You have to go to the cargo hold to release or ransom prisoners, though there's an option setting to avoid decks and to deal with prisoners via the "Passengers" interface. Beyond that, indeed you don't need to go to other decks, and I'd rather not be forced to do so. Especially since, apart from the cabin, they're all the same for every ship. And apart from the gun deck, which some smaller ships don't have.

Playing Devil's Advocate here:
Doesn't that completely negate the risk of mutiny from waiting too long with dividing the plunder?

Only if you're paying attention. And a captain who is paying attention to his crew's mood should indeed be at much less risk of a mutiny!

This is leading me into an area I have not actually played with - a bit of testing yes but without any insight into the impact in game. The change to LAi_deck should ensure the QM is on deck for you to do the business (although I'm not sure what "seadogs" location is in that context where the QM was already mentioned to appear (and still is)).

"Seadogs" is the crew quarters.

I don't think (conceptually) that being able to do this when running through the jungle (or indeed many other scenarios makes game sense) so without getting needlessly complicated I guess I would block the QM from this on land.

Perhaps use the same code as for changing flags. You can only use the quartermaster to divide plunder while on your ship. At sea or moored, it doesn't matter - the point is, you're on the ship, which is where the plunder waiting to be divided is located.

Putting them in your shore party does seem to make them appear in the cabin on reloading and I'm not sure if that trumps the on deck placement (something to check out I guess)

If an officer is able to appear on deck then he'll appear on deck regardless of whether he's in your party.

Doing it while moored may be the best compromise however a further question would be moored where? Pirates I think should be anywhere they can moor (bCanEnterToLand) why should they have to go to a potentially hostile port or all the way back to a pirate port when any quiet cove would do. Privateers maybe should be more limited? To ports? and only those for where your letter(s) of marque applies or neutral nations as well (not sure on the codecheck for this one) because that's what the (original) crew presumably signed on for - not to end in some hostile territory? This just brings a little more change between the two styles but @Grey Roger would have a better overview of how this would affect his style at least.

Your choice, since you'll be the one coding it. However...

So that's my twopenny worth - on ship (anywhere) but the QM is normally on deck however in the cabin if that's where they are instead.
The ship to be moored if pirate, and moored at friendly or neutral port if a privateer (so they gain not needing a loanshark port) perhaps the loanshark code would need the same limitation else a player could just go there in a hostile port and circumvent the intention. Does that make any sense?

... if you make it too restrictive then it becomes next to useless and players will just use the loanshark instead. Make the loanshark too restrictive too, and those of us who use payment by dividing plunder won't do it any more. Apparently hardly anyone does pay by dividing plunder, so you probably don't want to discourage those few of us from doing it any more!

Further thought should a Privateer be allowed to use a pirate port for this - I don't see why they should.

Because the original Brethren of the Coast were privateers. Because the main pirate port is Nevis Pirate Settlement, so the only effect of such a restriction on a British privateer would be that he needs to go next door to Charlestown. And because Jack Sparrow would still want to divide the loot at Tortuga even if someone playing "Hoist the Colours" chooses to get a LoM.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

micro managing their officers (to the extent of placing supporting officers on companion ships)

I imagine, you might as well... If you want to give your companions the same fighting chance that you do.
But that should just be an "assign once, then leave them there" situation. Right?

Pirates I think should be anywhere they can moor (bCanEnterToLand) why should they have to go to a potentially hostile port or all the way back to a pirate port when any quiet cove would do.

Going to a hostile port would indeed make no sense.
But dropping the crew who leave off at a random shore next to a jungle also sounds a bit odd to me...

Putting them in your shore party does seem to make them appear in the cabin on reloading and I'm not sure if that trumps the on deck placement (something to check out I guess)

I would hope that officers in your shore party would show in your cabin AND in whatever ship location matches their officer type.

You have to go to the cargo hold to release or ransom prisoners, though there's an option setting to avoid decks and to deal with prisoners via the "Passengers" interface. Beyond that, indeed you don't need to go to other decks, and I'd rather not be forced to do so. Especially since, apart from the cabin, they're all the same for every ship. And apart from the gun deck, which some smaller ships don't have.

Fair enough.

I wonder if that were different if there were more to do on those deck locations.
But what kind of stuff would that take?
Probably a lot. Especially if it is to be not too repetitive...

Only if you're paying attention. And a captain who is paying attention to his crew's mood should indeed be at much less risk of a mutiny!

Hehe.
Fair point again.

 

[Kara Korsan]

Feels awkward to chime in while tbe actual contributors are discussing the mod's direction, but still, I'd like to bring up a few questions which probably haven't been addressed on the forum recently (as far as I can tell, anyway):

1. You can berth your ships by hitting F2 and going to the "Ship" screen.
You can pick how you want to pay your crew by hitting F2 and going to the "Ship" screen.
Why can't you divide the plunder by hitting F2 and going to the "Ship" screen?
I get this sinking feeling that you guys are rather averse to fiddling with the interface screens; maybe it's more trouble than it's worth. No idea whatsoever, personally. If it's at all possible, however, that'd be far more convenient than running around the deck or juggling the officers into and out of the shore party.

2. Speaking of juggling, have you ever entertained the idea of canceling the reassignment feature? Like, if the guy is a carpenter, he stays a carpenter; can't post him to the cannons deck as a gunner. Maybe you can put him in the charge of the badly battered frigate you just captured until you can tow it to the nearest port, but once he returns to your ship, he's back to sawing planks and hammering nails. I don't know; treating your officer as an 8-ball sounds so...arcade. But even if you don't care much about taking that away...

3. ...it feels like their growth could use a solid stunting. Even without Shared Experience, they're always five, ten, sometimes fifteen levels ahead of the main character, and they max out everything well before their captain can even hit 7-8 on average. How's about, say, a surgeon trains his Defense quickly but everything else ten times as slow? This way, collecting a full roster would actually make sense, since you'd have several specialized guys who are good at what they do but ain't worth much when it comes to anything else, instead of two or three hypercompetent boys who are better than their captain at everything and thus could be posted anywhere around the ship, depending on what the situation calls for.

4. Is it possible to remove the ability to transfer money? Like, treating it mechanically as a quest item, perhaps, or whatever, so that it cannot leave your inventory. That would solve a lot of problems mentioned here. You can't just use your officers as pack mules, and you can't dump the gold into that chest in your cabin, either (what's up with that chest sitting on the armchair, anyway?), so you will have to put up with all that gold jiggling and jingling in your pocket until your crewmates train their swords on ya. Oh, but how about just throwing it at the loanshark, with the added benefit of accumulated interest? Make it so that you can only deposit your personal wealth instead of the pool money, which would also give some meaning to having personal wealth. You plundered your way into Fiction 500, so you're stuck with it until you pay your cutthroats their due share. No running away from it. We'll see how many players will *not* divide the plunder then.

I realize that it'd take a very, very long time to implement any of these, on the off chance that they're even picked up. Just figured talking about them would at least trigger better ideas, if nothing else.

 

[Grey Roger]

Personally I am not keen on anything that restricts a player's choice. So I certainly don't want to lose the ability to divide plunder, or anything else for that matter, via interface. Likewise, I don't want to remove passenger re-assignment - in fact, I rely on it! (As stated earlier, most of the officers I find in taverns are Master at Arms, then I put them into the position I want and they can learn on the job.)

Officers do indeed gain experience more quickly than you, in the skills relevant to their jobs. The surgeon does train his Defence more quickly than you - and, unless you have "Shared Experience", does not gain experience in other skills at all. (Not quite true, he is allowed a couple of others such as Luck, and for some reason also Repair. But he gets 0 increase in Accuracy, for example.) That's why you do indeed want a full roster.

Of course, if you don't want to re-assign officer roles or transfer money to them, there's a very simple way to implement this which involves no coding at all. You don't re-assign your officers or transfer money to them - you have the choice as well! (By the way, dumping your money into the ship's chest won't prevent the crew from becoming envious. They check that as well. )

As for the quartermaster dividing plunder, I've been giving this some more thought, and I would now suggest allowing you to talk to the quartermaster about dividing plunder anywhere - yes, even in the middle of the jungle. What happens in "reality" is that you tell the quartermaster that he'll be dividing plunder when you return to the ship. For ease of coding, it actually happens right away, including crew loss. That doesn't really matter since the only time you'll be able to do anything about it is when you're back in town and can recruit new crew from the tavern. If crew loss is disabled when you talk to the quartermaster while on deck and out at sea, perhaps change crew morale instead; if the share is low enough for morale to drop drastically, you might get a mutiny right then.

 

[DavyJack]

Personally I am not keen on anything that restricts a player's choice. So I certainly don't want to lose the ability to divide plunder, or anything else for that matter, via interface. Likewise, I don't want to remove passenger re-assignment - in fact, I rely on it! (As stated earlier, most of the officers I find in taverns are Master at Arms, then I put them into the position I want and they can learn on the job.)

I agree! That should not change at all!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Feels awkward to chime in while tbe actual contributors are discussing the mod's direction, but still

I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly always welcome the feedback from players.
That's always really valuable, I reckon.

You can berth your ships by hitting F2 and going to the "Ship" screen.
You can pick how you want to pay your crew by hitting F2 and going to the "Ship" screen.
Why can't you divide the plunder by hitting F2 and going to the "Ship" screen?

Because nobody added that option.

I get this sinking feeling that you guys are rather averse to fiddling with the interface screens

Interface stuff can indeed be some of the more complex things to code.
I've done some minor work there; and @Jack Rackham has made plenty of tweaks to it for his quests as well.
But the real interface experts, like @Maximus, @konradk and @Levis haven't been active for quite a while...

Speaking of juggling, have you ever entertained the idea of canceling the reassignment feature? Like, if the guy is a carpenter, he stays a carpenter; can't post him to the cannons deck as a gunner. Maybe you can put him in the charge of the badly battered frigate you just captured until you can tow it to the nearest port, but once he returns to your ship, he's back to sawing planks and hammering nails. I don't know; treating your officer as an 8-ball sounds so...arcade. But even if you don't care much about taking that away...

I do like having the freedom for that.
But I have thought at times about putting a time limit on it.
So you can only do it once per day per officer or so.

Probably not worth the effort to put that in.
But it's a thought...

...it feels like their growth could use a solid stunting. Even without Shared Experience, they're always five, ten, sometimes fifteen levels ahead of the main character, and they max out everything well before their captain can even hit 7-8 on average. How's about, say, a surgeon trains his Defense quickly but everything else ten times as slow? This way, collecting a full roster would actually make sense, since you'd have several specialized guys who are good at what they do but ain't worth much when it comes to anything else, instead of two or three hypercompetent boys who are better than their captain at everything and thus could be posted anywhere around the ship, depending on what the situation calls for.

It is very much intentional that your officers exceed your skills in their areas of expertise.
Otherwise they wouldn't have anything to contribute.

(Unless we somehow upgrade the game to use 100 skill points instead for a ship and have the points stack if you have multiple officers; instead of "highest counts".)

Not sure what happens once an officer is maxed out in his/her area though.
Could be they start gaining other skills semi-randomly then.
But that shouldn't happen faster than for the player...

So I certainly don't want to lose the ability to divide plunder, or anything else for that matter, via interface.

I don't think @Kara Korsan suggested removing anything for that; rather adding it as an option to the interface.

As stated earlier, most of the officers I find in taverns are Master at Arms, then I put them into the position I want and they can learn on the job.

That REALLY concerns me. I don't think that should be happening.
@The Nameless Pirate, @DavyJack, @Kara Korsan, do you also run mostly into Master at Arms officers to hire in tavern?

Is it possible to remove the ability to transfer money? Like, treating it mechanically as a quest item, perhaps, or whatever, so that it cannot leave your inventory.

If you code at it hard enough, I'm certain that would be possible.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

That REALLY concerns me. I don't think that should be happening.
@The Nameless Pirate, @DavyJack, @Kara Korsan, do you also run mostly into Master at Arms officers to hire in tavern?

Can't surely say, because I usually asked the innkeeper for officers.
But I do have a vague memory that Masters at Arms are the most common type of officers.

 

[Kara Korsan]

Personally I am not keen on anything that restricts a player's choice. So I certainly don't want to lose the ability to divide plunder, or anything else for that matter, via interface.

Very true, but...

I don't think @Kara Korsan suggested removing anything for that; rather adding it as an option to the interface.

...yeah, that's what I was asking about. That whether it's possible to add the option to the ship screen so you can divide the plunder through the interface rather than dialogue.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly always welcome the feedback from players.
That's always really valuable, I reckon.

That's encouraging; thank you. You've got a good thing going here, guys. I keep reading feedback from other players here, and there are some neat ideas being thrown around, which actually lead to new tweaks and fixes. You're one of the most receptive modding teams out there, lending an ear to anyone with a lightbulb over their head.

It is very much intentional that your officers exceed your skills in their areas of expertise.
Otherwise they wouldn't have anything to contribute.

Which is how it should be, ideally, but what I mean to say is this: In my current playthrough, my character is level 36. My navigator, Artois Voysey, is level 47. He's got everything maxed out already. I simply can't stop him. Nor the others. They're galloping. Most of them are over level 40, and that's without Shared Experience. The main character is the weakest one. Gameplay-wise, I shouldn't complain; the stronger they are, the fewer bouts of headache I deal with. On the other hand, if I were Artois, would my level 47 hide care to follow this level 36 captain who's inferior to me in every possible way? Even worse when you abandon the Elder Scrolls-style skill progress and go back to the vanilla leveling; everyone maxes out everything at level 45-46 anyway, so it's a question of who levels faster, and the answer is the officers, by a great margin.

That REALLY concerns me. I don't think that should be happening.
@The Nameless Pirate, @DavyJack, @Kara Korsan, do you also run mostly into Master at Arms officers to hire in tavern?

I tend to do every quest and thus have more officers than I know what to do with already, so I almost never pick them up at the tavern. But, yeah, I checked it out today, and masters-at-arms are alarmingly frequent. Which is sad, because they're just poor man's boatswains (bosuns have more HP and better selection of relevant perks, and they still have melee and grappling as major skills, if I'm not mistaken). Then again, you can always talk to the bartender and ask for a specific officer.

 

[Grey Roger]

Meanwhile, back on the original topic:
Any more thoughts on whether to restrict where you can talk to the quartermaster about dividing plunder? Limit it to ship deck, limit it to port or shore, or don't limit at all? (Especially @pedrwyth as this is your mod.)

 

[pedrwyth]

Well then, attempting a summary of divide the plunder.

Before I started to intervene, you had to find a loanshark. There are a restricted number of these so you would need to keep an eye on moral, expedition length and location to avoid being caught out too far from where you could divide the plunder. However people wondered why there was such a restriction mostly in terms of "reality".

Fast forward to a more free for all where you can divide the plunder anywhere, anytime as long as you have a QM - no wait you don't need a QM because you can just convert a different officer for the time it takes. So now you don't need to bother about thinking at all if and when you get a notification (depending on playing difficulty) you just go through the required mechanics and carry on. So it has become just a mechanic to do when required rather than taken into account planning a voyage from a to b (can I normally make it well within the time before my crew mutiny, is there a loanshark nearby). Don't see receiving much thanks for that (except for removing the need for "know your loansharks").

So how far should the restrictions that exist now be eased (if at all). Whilst you can visualise a scenario to explain what happens (conceptually) if you divide the plunder in the jungle I can't see the in game reason for you suddenly deciding to, the crew is far away on the ship (apart from any you have brought with you) - the only reason for this would be external - you weren't watching closely and had let moral slip and just got notified - oh well time for that mechanic again. A similar logic applies for me mid-sail except of course you are now where the crew are so (conceptually) can more easily judge how things are. However it adds the question of what about crew loss. I do see that you could code loss of moral instead or if a given ratio of leavers (should that be Brexiteers) to remainers you get a mutiny anyway. It may be a better fit with what was really possible but if you get in that scenario (ie needing to divide mid voyage) it's only because you weren't paying attention - why the easy get out? Especially if now all you have to do is moor somewhere.

I think therefore I will go with having to be on the ship and moored but with no restriction on where moored (or who privateer/pirate), if it's a hostile port you're presumably taking a chance with your false flag, if a deserted beach your crew may not be as happy about jumping ship but they ARE jumping ship and you can't replace them here, and if a friendly port everyone's happy because you can get new crew. Given placing the QM on deck works then that's where it will normally take place but if elsewhere on the ship it can happen there too. Finally if you don't want to bother with a QM you can swap officers in and out of the role it's your choice your immersion.

The re-fit scenario remains with the loanshark because they are part funding you (notionally - how else do you get it free) maybe that's where some of the prize money disappears to each time you sell a prize, his cut for bankrolling you (and no I do not propose altering the prize money to reflect in anyway whether you used the loanshark or QM).

It's a win win because that's pretty much the easiest to code too. It can be altered if we get hordes complaining about the restrictions (in terms of game reality - not because my crew keeps mutinying at inconvenient moments).