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Planned Feature Quality of Item Traders is too random

Pieter Boelen said:
LOL!

To be fair, perhaps the current trader quality system isn't set up quite fairly. I always figured it is best to NOT talk to certain traders until later in the game.
So that when you DO talk to them, they'll be generated with a higher level and actually have good stuff for sale.
Otherwise *I* have to keep buying stuff from them just to give them experience, which doesn't make all that much sense.

Actually, none of this makes all that much sense. Hopefully.... some day.... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Is this trader quality system very complex or rather easy? I have no experience in modding, but maybe if it is not too complex, I can just try.

Where would I find the relevant files I have to look at?

By the way, which traders do you not talk to in the beginning and at what level would you talk to them?
 
It isn't the simplest code. IncredibleHat did that many years ago for Build 13, if I recall.

Have a look through PROGRAM\ITEMS\items_utilite.c and look for "itemtrade.quality" .
 
Well, I did find the code, but I pretty much understand nothing...

However, from what I am guessing, there are already a lot of factors in this. Nation, town size, player level... That all makes sense. But one thing I do not understand is, there is something mentioned about a previous method, which seamed to be more random. What I am experiencing the method in use now is pretty random. I tried at a few traders "save - talk - check quality - reload - talk again..." I got any random quality between 1 and 7, the middle numbers coming most often, so a 1 and 7 were rare, 2 and 6 more frequent and 3, 4 and 5 the most often. Never got an 8, 9 or 10 (except Gregor, he seams fixed at 10).

I am level 54 and checked Curacao and all towns on Hispanola for quite a lot of reloads.

If the size of the town, the nation, player level and so on is used to determin the quality of the trader, I should have gotten different results playing.

I will test again on a much higher player level in a new game. (thanks for the cheat mode!)

By the way, please feel free to move the to a different thread, because I think this might be a bit off topic for this thread.
 
Well I tested again at level 300, but got the same result (only like 20 reloads only on Hispaniola). A 2, two 7s, a 6 and the rest 3, 4 and 5.

From just that, I would guess, that the player level does not factor in enough.
 
Thanks for that. I made this into a bug tracker entry so we remember to look into it.

By using trace or logit lines, you might be able to figure out some of the code's internal workings.
Wouldn't be the first time that code doesn't do what the writers thought it did.
 
Just a few more ideas:

Does the level of the trader have to be random at all? I think not. The avaliblity of items should be a bit random, that would make sense. At that time not everything was everywhere all the time.

Maybe the item-trade would be a lot easier (the system not in play), if the level of the trader would be fixed only to:
- nation (must)
- town size (must)
- number of towns on the island (can not must)
- player level (must)
- game time (can not must)

Also, each trader should have a base min-level based on above. A trader in a large town might have a starting-level of 4 or 5, because otherwise he or she would have been out of business before the game even started. A trader in a small town could start at 1 or 2.

A trader in a smuglers lair or a pirate settlement could start with a higher level, because for him or her to even be there it might have taken some special skills. Also on rare items the prices should be higher in such a special location compared to a large town, because it would be more difficult to get them there. So they probably came from pirating or theft. Also simple items should be cheaper, because there would be to many there, as there is a very limited amount of customers. (e.g. a cheap sword, no pirate wants, but a rare sword they would pay a lot for, because it gives them a big advantage in their job.)

And I also think, that if by trading with a certain trader more frequent he should level up.

But there is no need for trader-levels to be reset, if the player does not trade with them regularly, as that would also not happen in the real world.

It would also be nice (but that is a different story), if there were more special traders like Gregor Samsa. They would not have to be there all the time, but if you get lucky and you meet them, they should also have more stuff for sale.
 
Captain Dixi said:
But there is no need for trader-levels to be reset, if the player does not trade with them regularly, as that would also not happen in the real world.
Click to expand...
I don't think that happens, does it? It shouldn't at least. Trader quality should only remain the same or go up, not down. :shock

Captain Dixi said:
It would also be nice (but that is a different story), if there were more special traders like Gregor Samsa. They would not have to be there all the time, but if you get lucky and you meet them, they should also have more stuff for sale.
Click to expand...
There are the random citizens who sometimes serve as "sneaky traders" who sell Borgiablades and Stinkpots and stuff like that.

This is beginning to tread close to the wish I posted here: http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/making-use-of-more-unique-trader-types.24457/

I wonder if @Levis' more dynamic economy work could serve to influence the items available in the game as well?

I'm also curious about throwing player level out of the equation altogether.
Have ALL items in the game all the time and it is mainly price to limits the player from getting the "best" stuff.
Though that may create a substantial amount of clutter, which actually goes against this here request:
http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/reduce-amount-of-items-at-traders.24454/
:facepalm
 
Pieter Boelen said:
I don't think that happens, does it? It shouldn't at least. Trader quality should only remain the same or go up, not down. :shock
Click to expand...

I think it does, from internalsettings.h

// Updating speed params
#define IT_MAX_DAYS_TO_UPDATE 30 // INT - if it has been longer than (this) many days since you last traded with the itemtrader, the item stock will be deleted and the trader will not be given updates (and will start fresh the next time you talk).
#define IT_STEPS_ON_UPDATE 3 // INT - Traders are updated in this many pases, so 1/(this) of all traders are updated per day and there is a delay of (this) many days between updates for each trader.
 
There are the random citizens who sometimes serve as "sneaky traders" who sell Borgiablades and Stinkpots and stuff like that.
Click to expand...

Yes, but they only sell "not so great stuff". When I needed something to kill Blackbeard (you told me what I needed), I just went through the chests on my ship and got what I needed. But if those sneaky traders would have a great item every once in a while, that would be great.
 
Concerning the "take the player level out of the equation", I would agree with you. I can go to Japan and have the best blacksmith make the best sword for me that money can buy, even though I no nothing about fencing. It would be more realistic, to just let the price determin what the player can buy and not buy.

About that request mentioned, than maybe a "quality button" could help.
 
Captain Dixi said:
Yes, but they only sell "not so great stuff". When I needed something to kill Blackbeard (you told me what I needed), I just went through the chests on my ship and got what I needed. But if those sneaky traders would have a great item every once in a while, that would be great.
Click to expand...
Actually, they used to. But then we changed them to have the fun stuff instead.
They might not be high-quality items, but you can do all sorts of crazy stuff with them! :rofl
 
Well then I guess I should try to do more crazy stuff with those items. Never tried that before.
 
The quality of traders you trade with frequently does go up. I am not 100% sure, but I think if you do not trade with a trader for too long, he will get reset.

The highest level of a trader you can get from the beginning seams to be 7. The only two traders I have at 8 in my current game, I traded with a lot really a lot. I talking millions of gold from buying and selling. They started at 7 and now they are at 8.
 
The traders' inventory being reset would be Ok.
But they should retain their quality. Not sure how it is set up in the code though.
 
The traders inventory is getting reset each day and that is good, so it always helps to go back after a night in the tavern to check again.

If the trader quality is getting reset after some time I will check today during my game. Just have to find a trader I have not visited and then check if after 1 month of gametime he gets a new quality. I think I have not been to Alice Town, so I will check that and report back later.
 
There is a difference between the daily updates where the trader keeps his current stock but gets a bit added to it
or when his stock is completely deleted, reset and redone.
 
Ok, did not know that, but this seams to work nice anyways. Concernig the reset of quality of the trader... Have not made it back to Alice Town yet, because I might have another bug. But I am still checking, if it fixes itself or not. So I will report on that in a new thread, if needed.
 
I was back at Alice Town half a year has past and the quality levels of the traders (both store and street) have not changed. So there is no problem.

I still think Pieter's idea to take the random out of the traders is a good idea. Just let the money you have determin what you can buy and what not. It would be more realistic.

If you find a good treasur early in the game and have a lot of money, what should keep you from buying the best stuff there is?
 
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