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Solved Period Relations and Towns

Pieter,

Sorry for the delay, but here is the updated spreadsheet I promised you. It's taken me a while because Latin-American history is not my usual area of history, so I have had to research the majority of it.

I have amended the spreadsheet slightly, and now shows the island names and towns as we know them today, the island names in each period, the towns names in each period and the owning nation in each period. I've also made a couple of notes to make it a bit more understandable.

Please bear in mind that there is no solid historical evidence when island and town names changed through the course of history, but my guess is that they would have changed when taken over by other nations.

Anyway, I hope that this satisfies your needs <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

View attachment Relations_and_Towns.zip
 

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  • Relations_and_Towns.zip
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Both above attachments are the same btw. Managed to attach it twice <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
That looks great! We're going to cause so much confusion with changing town and island names. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

Portugal never did have an island of it's own, did it?

Still wondering how we should handle those islands without settlements;
especially since some of them are used by, for example, the Bartolomeu quest.
 
Still there are some quirks in the time period of 1600-1679, the problem is that the towns were frequently captured/recaptured by nations. I think that this is a good overall view, although some cities may have to be adjusted in some main quests.
 
<!--quoteo(post=325877:date=Jun 6 2009, 03:45 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jun 6 2009, 03:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=325877"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Portugal never did have an island of it's own, did it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Portugal didn't have any island in the Caribbean. Just several pirates <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> But I know the french governor of Tortuga for instance issued many letters of Marque from the Portuguese authorities to fight the Spaniards during the independence war in the 17 th century.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Still wondering how we should handle those islands without settlements;
especially since some of them are used by, for example, the Bartolomeu quest.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, but don't count on me to change the Bartolomeu Main Quest again. I've got enough work these next months. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />o)

EDIT : About the Bartolomeu and Santiago Quest, they can't be played in the early explorers period according to the file made by Sim. I think these two quests should be only played in the Spanish Main Period (if of course, the player has the possibility to play this period without the Bartolomeu Main Quest).
 
I certainly don't want you to have to change your quests. I'm thinking we should just keep Grenada as Portuguese island in all the periods,
to keep things simple. I want it all to resemble real history, but it's still a game so we can permit ourselves some liberties for gameplay and simplicity's sake. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
I totally agree. Although it would be nice to have a completely hostoricly accurate world to sail around, in real terms it would be quite boring if every town was Spanish, as I think you have mentioned before.

Personally, although I'm a fan of history, I believe the history should be made to fit the mod rather than the mod fit the history. As long as the broad outline of the history is there, I can't see anyone being offended by adaptions to make for better gameplay <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

With regards to Portugal, it's true they didn't really own any of the Caribbean islands, but they did own many settlements on the islands. Largely due to the many European wars that were being waged at the time, Portugese prisoners that were captured in Europe, were taken to the Caribbean and released were they couldn't cause any trouble. The irony is, most of those prisoners that were released became Pirates and caused a hell of a lot more trouble than anyone could have imagined <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

The Portugese also had a huge Naval presence in the area as their ships passed through to the South American mainland.

Anyway, if there is anything else I can help you out with please let me know. Keep up the good work everyone <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":bow" border="0" alt="bow.gif" />
 
Hmm... let me think... Anything in particular you'd like to work on? I know we've got plenty of work still left to do.
How about finding some different names for the various governors, if possibly more-or-less historically correct?
It's a bit odd to have the same governor for the islands in all the different periods, isn't it?
 
<!--quoteo(post=326056:date=Jun 7 2009, 12:03 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jun 7 2009, 12:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=326056"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm... let me think... Anything in particular you'd like to work on? I know we've got plenty of work still left to do.
How about finding some different names for the various governors, if possibly more-or-less historically correct?
It's a bit odd to have the same governor for the islands in all the different periods, isn't it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think, this would be difficult...
As for Jamaica for example: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_Jamaica" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_Jamaica</a>
this may need not period, but storyline-specific names....
 
I'd like to have some period-defaults and you can always override those for the storylines.
As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't need to be exactly correct; they had a different governor every two years or so!
But as long as each period or every two periods get a different governor, that's fine by me.
It's just a bit odd when someone stays governor for over 200 years.

Not that any of our players would really care. But then... how many people would care about period-correct relations and town/island-names either?
Personally I do care and some people here do too, but the average players...? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
Different names for the various governors? Wow, that will be quite tricky. I'll see what I can dig up for you, if I can't find any references, I can certinly find what the most popular names would have been in each period for each nation and maybe you can pick ones you like.

Thanks for the heads up on the reference page novotny, good old Wikipedia.

As for things I would like to work on, I'm not sure if this has been done already because I'm a bit of a newbe to this, but I'd love to see the 'celebrity' pirates portrayed in the mod like Henry Morgan and Edward Teach. I could get you names, dates, pictures and flags for each if your intrested. If it has already been done, excuse my ignorance <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
 
Henry Morgan is in there at some point. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
ah yes blackbeard...an idea i had but was thinking about a sidequest...(full quest would be amazing but logistically not really)
 
I'd love to swordfight Blackbeard across the deck or have Anne Bonny as one of my officers. I'd imagine her salary would be quite high though <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
 
All possible, of course. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
Adding a hirable officer isn't so hard either. But if the officer IS Anne Bonney, there'd better be some quest involved too, right?
 
I would say so. It wouldn't be too hard to think of a quest involving Ann Bonny or any of the famous Pirates really. Most of their lives have been really well documented even if some of the stories have been erm, inflated a bit <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

As for Ann Bonny, it's well known that she married a Pirate, became a Pirate and then had an affair with a Pirate. The quest could be she is a bit older and searching for her illegitimate son from the affair. Through your course of helping her, it could even turn out to be you! We could really have some fun with some of the stories <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
 
Period nation relations and town/island-names could be added to the "new" <a href="http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?showtopic=13692&view=getnewpost" target="_blank">PiratesAhoy! Wiki</a>! Then it'll be available for reference even before it's in the game! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rofl" border="0" alt="24.gif" />
 
I'm thinking we should make the period-dependent default relations soon. What about player relations though?
What if the player selects his own nation instead of, say, Portugal for Bartolomeu?

Also I'm thinking it'd be better to not use the Towns folder in the storylines.
Reason being, if I perform a Reinit, I get weird messages. :modding
We can make the towns change nation based on period. :yes
 
I rewrote the relations_init.c file for the Periods mod:
Code: 
void relations_init()
{
ref PChar = GetMainCharacter();

trace("running qcase beg");

// Set Pirate Relations
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, PIRATE, RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(PORTUGAL, PIRATE, RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, PIRATE, RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(FRANCE, PIRATE, RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(SPAIN, PIRATE, RELATION_ENEMY);
if(bUSAExists) SetNationRelationBoth(AMERICA, PIRATE, RELATION_ENEMY);

// Set Nation Relations
switch(GetCurrentPeriod())
{
case PERIOD_EARLY_EXPLORERS:
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, HOLLAND,  RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, FRANCE,   RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, SPAIN,    RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, PORTUGAL, RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, FRANCE,   RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, SPAIN,    RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, PORTUGAL, RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(FRANCE,  SPAIN,    RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(FRANCE,  PORTUGAL, RELATION_NEUTRAL);
SetNationRelationBoth(SPAIN,   PORTUGAL, RELATION_FRIENDLY);
break;

case PERIOD_THE_SPANISH_MAIN:
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, HOLLAND,  RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, FRANCE,   RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, SPAIN,    RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, PORTUGAL, RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, FRANCE,   RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, SPAIN,    RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, PORTUGAL, RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(FRANCE,  SPAIN,    RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(FRANCE,  PORTUGAL, RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(SPAIN,   PORTUGAL, RELATION_FRIENDLY);
break;

case PERIOD_GOLDEN_AGE_OF_PIRACY:
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, HOLLAND,  RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, FRANCE,   RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, SPAIN,    RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, PORTUGAL, RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, FRANCE,   RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, SPAIN,    RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, PORTUGAL, RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(FRANCE,  SPAIN,    RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(FRANCE,  PORTUGAL, RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(SPAIN,   PORTUGAL, RELATION_ENEMY);
break;

case PERIOD_COLONIAL_POWERS:
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, HOLLAND,  RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, FRANCE,   RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, SPAIN,    RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, PORTUGAL, RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, FRANCE,   RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, SPAIN,    RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, PORTUGAL, RELATION_NEUTRAL);
SetNationRelationBoth(FRANCE,  SPAIN,    RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(FRANCE,  PORTUGAL, RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(SPAIN,   PORTUGAL, RELATION_ENEMY);
break;

case PERIOD_REVOLUTIONS:
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, HOLLAND,  RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, FRANCE,   RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, SPAIN,    RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, PORTUGAL, RELATION_NEUTRAL);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, AMERICA,  RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, FRANCE,   RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, SPAIN,    RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, PORTUGAL, RELATION_NEUTRAL);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, AMERICA,  RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(FRANCE,  SPAIN,    RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(FRANCE,  PORTUGAL, RELATION_NEUTRAL);
SetNationRelationBoth(FRANCE,  AMERICA,  RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(SPAIN,   PORTUGAL, RELATION_NEUTRAL);
SetNationRelationBoth(SPAIN,   AMERICA,  RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(AMERICA, PORTUGAL, RELATION_NEUTRAL);
break;

case PERIOD_THE_CORSICAN:
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, HOLLAND,  RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, FRANCE,   RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, SPAIN,    RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, PORTUGAL, RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(ENGLAND, AMERICA,  RELATION_NEUTRAL);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, FRANCE,   RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, SPAIN,    RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, PORTUGAL, RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(HOLLAND, AMERICA,  RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(FRANCE,  SPAIN,    RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(FRANCE,  PORTUGAL, RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(FRANCE,  AMERICA,  RELATION_NEUTRAL);
SetNationRelationBoth(SPAIN,   PORTUGAL, RELATION_FRIEND);
SetNationRelationBoth(SPAIN,   AMERICA,  RELATION_ENEMY);
SetNationRelationBoth(AMERICA, PORTUGAL, RELATION_FRIEND);
break;
}

// Set Player Relations
// PB: What about personal relations for non-standard storylines?
SetRMRelation(PChar, PIRATE,   REL_WAR);
SetRMRelation(PChar, ENGLAND,  REL_AMNESTY);
SetRMRelation(PChar, HOLLAND,  REL_AFTERATTACK);
SetRMRelation(PChar, SPAIN,    REL_AFTERATTACK);
SetRMRelation(PChar, PORTUGAL, REL_AMNESTY);
if (sti(PChar.nation) == PERSONAL_NATION && CharLocation == 0)
SetRMRelation(PChar, FRANCE, REL_AFTERATTACK); // TIH set to rel_afterattack, was "REL_WAR + 1." Nov2'06
else
SetRMRelation(PChar, FRANCE, REL_WAR);
if(bUSAExists) SetRMRelation(PChar, AMERICA, REL_AMNESTY);

if (ENABLE_FLAGS == 1) {
LooseLetterOfMarque(ENGLAND);
LooseLetterOfMarque(FRANCE);
LooseLetterOfMarque(SPAIN);
LooseLetterOfMarque(HOLLAND);
LooseLetterOfMarque(PORTUGAL);
if(bUSAExists) LooseLetterOfMarque(AMERICA);

SetActualRMRelation(ENGLAND, GetRMRelation(PChar, ENGLAND));
SetActualRMRelation(FRANCE, GetRMRelation(PChar, FRANCE));
SetActualRMRelation(SPAIN, GetRMRelation(PChar, SPAIN));
SetActualRMRelation(PIRATE, GetRMRelation(PChar, PIRATE));
SetActualRMRelation(HOLLAND, GetRMRelation(PChar, HOLLAND));
SetActualRMRelation(PORTUGAL, GetRMRelation(PChar, PORTUGAL));
if(bUSAExists) SetActualRMRelation(AMERICA, GetRMRelation(PChar, AMERICA));
}
UpdateRelations();
}
I'm hoping our historically inclined members and especially our quest-writers too can have a look at these relations
and check if they'd work for their storylines in those periods.
Of course it's possibe to overwrite these per-period defaults with a storyline-specific file,
but I'd prefer as many storylines as possible to be able to use the default relations.

Also, hopefully somebody can test this. I'm not going to for quite a while. :razz

BTW: I'm removing the RANDOM_RELATIONS mod; I don't think anybody uses that anyway,
plus it can mess up the storylines too.
Not to mention that period-specific relations also is more random than the always-the-same ones we had before.

Question: What about the relations of the player nation with the various nations?
For now, I've kept these on their stock game (standard storyline) defaults.
But what should they be? Any thoughts?
 
I think for mine as long as France and Spain are allies and at war with the Dutch it should be all good ;)

Oh and also England being at war with Spain and France as well :D

(All of those appear to be right :D WELL DONE xD:)

As for Jack's personal start at Neutral or Wary and by the time CotBP comes around they will all be hostile and Jack will have a piraty personal flag :cheeky
 
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