New Horizon and Stock Game

[The Nameless Pirate]

That's one way to play it, and certainly I've played "Tales of a Sea Hawk" several times - it's still a really good storyline even though the reason I installed "New Horizons" in the first place was because I'd played it so often that it was getting a bit stale. But the name "New Horizons" should be an inspiration - try something new, such as one of the other storylines.

I am going to try one of the other storylines on my next play through.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I don't know off-hand which recycled character the stock game uses for escort merchants. In NH, at least, it's "Quest trader". But he does use dialog file "anacleto_dialog.c". (It can't be Anacleto, otherwise escort quests would be liable to break after you meet the real Anacleto when you're stuck on Douwesen / Bonaire during "Tales of a Sea Hawk". )

Ah, you're right! Sorry, my memory mixed up the dialog name with his character ID. Oops.

Sea travel has definitely changed, starting with 1 hour days. Compared to the stock game, big ships are a lot slower and clumsier, meaning the ship of choice is more likely to be a frigate or fast galleon rather than a battleship - though that was the case even in earlier build versions. Switching to "Arcade" mode will indeed probably make things easier here, but then you're liable to be affected by cursed coins... (Unless you have installed the update archive, edited "InternalSettings.h" and found the "CURSES_DISABLED" setting.)

Depends on the storyline. Even in Arcade, you won't have that problem in Jack Sparrow or Hornblower, for example.

I can't think what has changed with land travel, except perhaps that by default, you can't immediately fast-travel anywhere. You either need to find the place by going there manually, or talk to one of the permanent residents (hint, they're usually the ones not carrying weapons). This can be switched in "InternalSettings.h" with "DISCOVER_FAST_TRAVEL".

That's also part of the "Arcade" toggle.

Item handling now has separate lists for weapons, medicaments, maps and items, and that's because there are more items so it helps to have them split into classes.

Indeed I quite like that change; makes things easier to find as far as I'm concerned.
Of course the "Weapon Qualities" mod also exists, which can be toggled off to get a reduced number of items in the game.

And some of the ammunition toggles can be switched off, but I think the ammunition ITEM toggle doesn't work quite right.
I recall some weirdness with a "using gold" message on the screen.

 

[BathtubPirate]

Tell us which ones, suggest alternative models, and maybe we'll change them.

Thomas O'Reily comes to mind, I think the Researcher model should be pretty unique, but it perfectly fits Clement Aurentis as this mad scientist type with the Einstein haircut and the weird goggles on his forehead. But in my opinion a colonial trader isn't exactly supposed to look like this.

Others are mostly a question of taste. I remember and imagine all the tavern, store and shipyard keepers the way I know them from the stock game, me personal would only change those that are overused like the fat storekeepers or old_man1 but stay as close as possible to the original types and use variations of those models (but of course in general the variety of characters is rather limited in the stock game, I also took the liberty to put some of the NH models in my own game). For me personal an alternative to Thomas O'Reily would be someone who stays closer to the original model, like 9S_nav for example.

I am going to try one of the other storylines on my next play through.

I started the Hornblower one (and as I am once again in my "pirate phase" I'm thinking about reading the novels) and are looking forward to see what the community has created with the new unique main stories.

Can you upload a savegame from just before you're about to talk to a bartender?

The game reuses the same character ID ("anacleto") for that captain and I think there are ways in which a reused character can get "corrupted" in some way.

I don't exactly get all you're saying, but the character_id in the stock game is "Quest trader" and the dialog is "anacleto" (Pretty confusing because of Anacleto Rui Sa Pinto...). Here's a savegame, I hope it helps. EDIT nope, there is no savegame: "The uploaded file does not have an allowed extension. "​

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Thomas O'Reily comes to mind, I think the Researcher model should be pretty unique, but it perfectly fits Clement Aurentis as this mad scientist type with the Einstein haircut and the weird goggles on his forehead. But in my opinion a colonial trader isn't exactly supposed to look like this.

Others are mostly a question of taste. I remember and imagine all the tavern, store and shipyard keepers the way I know them from the stock game, me personal would only change those that are overused like the fat storekeepers or old_man1 but stay as close as possible to the original types and use variations of those models (but of course in general the variety of characters is rather limited in the stock game, I also took the liberty to put some of the NH models in my own game). For me personal an alternative to Thomas O'Reily would be someone who stays closer to the original model, like 9S_nav for example.

Fair enough.
At some point we decided to do some model-swapping, because we had so many nice-looking ones used at random, but not for fixed characters, it seemed a bit of a waste.
But if you make some suggestions on stuff to change (back), we can easily do that. I've got no loyalty to the Build Mod choices, while I do indeed have some loyalty to the Stock Game.

I started the Hornblower one (and as I am once again in my "pirate phase" I'm thinking about reading the novels) and are looking forward to see what the community has created with the new unique main stories.

Ooh, Hornblower will give you something nice and different! To avoid confusion, you may want to have a quick read through the "Naval Officer" section here:
New Horizons Playing Styles | PiratesAhoy!

I don't exactly get all you're saying, but the character_id in the stock game is "Quest trader" and the dialog is "anacleto" (Pretty confusing because of Anacleto Rui Sa Pinto...). Here's a savegame, I hope it helps. EDIT nope, there is no savegame: "The uploaded file does not have an allowed extension. "

Zip it up first and then it'll work.

 

[Grey Roger]

Thomas O'Reily comes to mind, I think the Researcher model should be pretty unique, but it perfectly fits Clement Aurentis as this mad scientist type with the Einstein haircut and the weird goggles on his forehead. But in my opinion a colonial trader isn't exactly supposed to look like this.
...
For me personal an alternative to Thomas O'Reily would be someone who stays closer to the original model, like 9S_nav for example.

Done, provided you can also suggest an alternative model for Morys Biddulph, one of the permanent drinkers in the tavern across the road from O'Reily's store. He already uses "9S_Nav" - we don't want his clone in the store as well.

I started the Hornblower one (and as I am once again in my "pirate phase" I'm thinking about reading the novels) and are looking forward to see what the community has created with the new unique main stories.

A lot is based to some extent on the books, or perhaps more likely on the TV series which was based on some of the books. There are even a few voice clips and video clips from the TV series. You'll also meet Richard Sharpe, who has his own series of books by Bernard Cornwell, and a TV series based on them - and a few voice clips from that, too. And then there's quite a bit which owes nothing to either series, including a sub-plot about traitors. Some artistic licence was inevitable given that, at least in the TV series, neither Hornblower nor Sharpe went near the Caribbean, or for that matter, each other. ​

Here's a savegame, I hope it helps. EDIT nope, there is no savegame: "The uploaded file does not have an allowed extension. "

​

Use 7-Zip to compress the savegame, then upload the zip file.

 

[BathtubPirate]

Done, provided you can also suggest an alternative model for Morys Biddulph, one of the permanent drinkers in the tavern across the road from O'Reily's store. He already uses "9S_Nav" - we don't want his clone in the store as well.

​

​

Hmm, some good model which isn't used on Redmond/Jamaica yet. I think Morys used to be Capitan1, which was a rare model in the stock game. Perhaps use that? OR make Morys Man3 and switch Laurence Wellman, the port Administrator, to Capitan1! Just hired Rys and saw that Wellman is still Man3 (for some reason Rys built me a mansion in front of the port administrators office after that.).

BTW, I started a F2P game to explore the new game so I can focuse on the main quest when I really kick off with Hornblower. And in the model descriptions of the choose-your-character-screen, Man2 is described as looking like Thomas O'Reily. This information is outdated (because either way, I think we agree Thomas shouldn't be man2 which was sooo overused in the stock game).

Zip it up first and then it'll work.

I hope this helps.​

 

[Grey Roger]

"Capitan1" is indeed one of the better models from the stock game, so I'd certainly be happy to put Morys Biddulph back to using that - or, indeed, to swapping him with Laurence Wellman to make the latter look more like an official. Has anyone else any preferences on which one should be "Capitan1" and which should be "Man3"?

Certainly Thomas O'Reily should not revert to "Man2". For a replacement description, I'm half inclined to borrow the line from smuggler boss Desmond Ray Beltrop in "Tales of a Sea Hawk":

I beg your pardon, but do I look like the village idiot?

Whereas "9S_Nav" does look like a dodgy salesman, perfect for O'Reily and his dealings with smugglers.

I'll have a look at that savegame, though it will need to wait until I can run a copy of the stock game...

 

[BathtubPirate]

Certainly Thomas O'Reily should not revert to "Man2". For a replacement description, I'm half inclined to borrow the line from smuggler boss Desmond Ray Beltrop in "Tales of a Sea Hawk":Whereas "9S_Nav" does look like a dodgy salesman, perfect for O'Reily and his dealings with smugglers.

Yeah, from all the traders (meaning those from the original islands) O'Reily always was the young, sassy and cunning newcomer to me, who doesn't play by the rules and traditions like all the older storekeepers.

Man2 is the village idiot par excellence, as he was in every village - twice…

I'll have a look at that savegame, though it will need to wait until I can run a copy of the stock game...

That would be awesome.

I also played a few hours of Hornblower today and will report here or elsewhere when I finished the story.

I'm not 100% sure if I understand the question, but I assume that these lines are the ones you want:

#define CTL_MAP_SAIL_RAISE             "KEY_W"
#define CTL_MAP_SAIL_STRIKE         "KEY_S"

Actually this one still doesn't work the way I imagined it. In PotC I always used to set sails with Arrow-Down (as the sails go down), strike them with Arrow-Up, turn left with Arrow-Left and right with Arrow-Right. After checking both the internal settings and the controls file several times I am still not able to change the sail commands. In the game I can set them with W and strike them with S, no other Buttons, at least not the arrow keys. Well, of course it isn't the end of the world, but still a bit irritating at first.

Mates, is there a thread for reporting general "errors" in NH? I discovered some tiny details, stuff that even me could change but I guess this would be useless if it isn't applied to the official Mod.​

 

[Grey Roger]

Man2 is the village idiot par excellence, as he was in every village - twice…

You could change the description if you like. In NH, the files you want to edit are:
PROGRAM\Models\initModels.c: find these lines:

   model.description =  "White long-sleeved shirt, closed vest...  Sure you've seen it before, Thomas O'Reily of Redmond wears such a suit!";
   model.id      =  "Man2";

Change the "model.description" line to whatever you prefer.

RESOURCE\INI\TEXTS\ENGLISH\models_description.txt: find this line:

White long-sleeved shirt, closed vest...  Sure you've seen it before, Thomas O'Reily of Redmond wears such a suit!{White long-sleeved shirt, closed vest...  Sure you've seen it before, Thomas O'Reily of Redmond wears such a suit!}

Replace both parts, the bit outside the brackets and the bit inside the brackets, with whatever you put into "initModels.c".

​

I also played a few hours of Hornblower today and will report here or elsewhere when I finished the story.

Report anything specific to the "Hornblower" storyline here:
The Chronicles of Horatio Hornblower (Horatio Horn
​

Mates, is there a thread for reporting general "errors" in NH? I discovered some tiny details, stuff that even me could change but I guess this would be useless if it isn't applied to the official Mod.

Build Mod Bug Tracker
Feel free to report bugs or post fixes there. I'll check them and, if they work (and don't break something else), will add them to my updates, which in due time will be incorporated into a future installer. If you can do it before the end of next week, I can add your stuff to the update which I want to upload then, and that's going to be the basis for a new installer either at the end of this year or the start of the next.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Actually this one still doesn't work the way I imagined it. In PotC I always used to set sails with Arrow-Down (as the sails go down), strike them with Arrow-Up, turn left with Arrow-Left and right with Arrow-Right. After checking both the internal settings and the controls file several times I am still not able to change the sail commands. In the game I can set them with W and strike them with S, no other Buttons, at least not the arrow keys. Well, of course it isn't the end of the world, but still a bit irritating at first.

That's odd; as far as I'm aware, that should work. Maybe have a look in the init_pc.c file?

 

[BathtubPirate]

A lot has been discussed here in only a few days, but about the original topic I have to withdraw my initial precariousness a bit. I'm still glad I kept my original game and of course I was interested in the Mod in the first place - that's why I came here - but after playing for a few evenings I feel much more comfortable with New Horizons than expected. I guess back then when I dipped into Build 13 a lot of stuff was unfinished or at least not as refined as New Horizons is now. I remember many of the features and first of all the visuals being out of place for my taste and my relationship with the game. There are still some locations stacked with weird newly added plants which irritate me, but also several towns where re-texturing is done very well to give the recycled locations a completely new face. I just still don't quite understand the skill system and what the two numbers mean.

Before blasting through Hornblower (I just ended a five hour session and am still not finished) I also did some of the new side quests in Free 2 Play. Some of them were more interesting than others, but the one with the crystal skulls became an instant favourite of mine. The ideas with the carib tribe, the officer taken as a hostage, the native guide, the bridge setting and the canon standoff in the cave are just great storytelling and make fine use of the games possibilities. Great stuff. As someone with a tiny bit of PotC code insight myself I'm even more amazed how something like this has been achieved, as I see that and approximately how it's possible, but that it must have taken a large amount of very exact work.

I think I will report a bit about Hornblower and other stories I'm planning to play in the respective sub forums.

@Pieter Boelen as far as I see, the init_pc file gives the command name and the default file assigns the respective button. Right now, it still doesn't work the way I planned, I have assigned the arrow keys to both CTL_SHIP_SAIL_RAISE and CTL_MAP_SAIL_RAISE (and _STRIKE) but in 3D sailing mode, it only works with S and W.

 

[Grey Roger]

There's another problem with using "9S_Nav" for Thomas O'Reily, which is that it's nearly identical to "9S_Pir", which I used for one of the officers in the "Ardent" storyline. It's bad enough that one of the permanent drinkers in the tavern is his near identical twin, but he really shouldn't be that similar to one of the most famous shopkeepers in the game.

Tough. Here are Thomas O'Reily and Morys Biddulph in their new outfits:


By the way, when I said "tough", I didn't mean "tough luck". Louwe Louwman was originally set up to be a quartermaster, but changes to the Abilities had a side-effect of requiring someone else to potentially become a quartermaster, so Louwman became a gunner instead. If O'Reily looks too similar to Louwman, and as Louwman has a different job, he needs to look less like a salesman and more like a gunner, and also tougher.

Meet the new Louwe Louwman:

 

[Grey Roger]

I just still don't quite understand the skill system and what the two numbers mean.

The new skill system automatically increases skills when the character uses them. For example, if you go to the store and sell or buy a load of cargo, your "Commerce" skill will go up a little. So will your quartermaster's "Commerce" skill. Officers get an increase in skills related to their job and no increase at all in skills outside their job; the gunner won't get any increase in "Commerce", but will earn "Cannon" and "Accuracy" skill when you fire the guns and hit something. Moreover, officers get a bigger increase than you because they're specialising. It's therefore worth getting a full set of officers who can each do their own jobs better than you. (There's an option to disable this automatic skill allocation and revert to the stock game system where characters get whole skill points when they level up, which you can then allocate however you like.)

The number on the left is a character's raw skill level. This is what goes up when the character earns skill points, whether automatically or by assignment. The number on the right is the skill as modified by bonuses or penalties. Usually these are from items. Also, the maximum size ship you can command efficiently is determined by your "Leadership" and "Sailing" skills and if you try to sail a ship which is too big for you, you'll get a penalty on both.

Before blasting through Hornblower (I just ended a five hour session and am still not finished) I also did some of the new side quests in Free 2 Play. Some of them were more interesting than others, but the one with the crystal skulls became an instant favourite of mine. The ideas with the carib tribe, the officer taken as a hostage, the native guide, the bridge setting and the canon standoff in the cave are just great storytelling and make fine use of the games possibilities. Great stuff. As someone with a tiny bit of PotC code insight myself I'm even more amazed how something like this has been achieved, as I see that and approximately how it's possible, but that it must have taken a large amount of very exact work.

Thanks! (Guess who wrote that quest. )

 

[BathtubPirate]

Meet the new Louwe Louwman:
View attachment 33438

Cool! What's this models name? I think I haven't seen it before. You seem to set a high value on character diversity, which of course isn't a bad thing, but as an old stock game connaisseur I'm probably less selectiv in that matter. Of course if a model is overused like old_man1 (in the stock game he was three tavern keepers, two shipyardmen, several pedestrians and a side quest key character all at the same time) it's too much even for me.

The new skill system...

Thanks, that makes perfect sense. I actually kinda like the "learning by doing" but didn't know about the bonus and penalty system.

Guess who wrote that quest.

Pieter Boelen?

It may be a bit tricky as the quest seems to be very hard to find. Of course I deliberately looked for new side quests here on PA, but for a casual encounter that researcher is very well hidden in a random house in the midst of this huge anonymous city (an AoP:CT model I guess?). But perhaps that is even more intriguing to make it a bit hidden.

But to find the natives in the deep jungle without being told specifically where to go, to go on the adventure with one of them and of course the player-caribs-relationship left ambigious and up to the players decision is very atmospheric. I didn't dare to claim the skull because I was almost afraid of a huge punishment for that treason, after I got the caribs to finally somewhat trust me. Hence I took the tomahawk and the weird boatswain and got the hell out of there.

 

[Grey Roger]

Cool! What's this models name? I think I haven't seen it before. You seem to set a high value on character diversity, which of course isn't a bad thing, but as an old stock game connaisseur I'm probably less selectiv in that matter.

The model's name will be "Louwman". You haven't seen it yet because I've only completed it recently; it will go into the next update.

I'm not the only one who likes lots of different character models - you may have noticed that NH has a lot more character models than the stock game, some of them specific to storylines or quests, others whom you can meet at random in streets or taverns.

Thanks, that makes perfect sense. I actually kinda like the "learning by doing" but didn't know about the bonus and penalty system.

Bonuses and penalties have always been there, but the display now makes it clear how much of your skill rating is your actual skill and how much is due to bonuses. Even in the stock game, gems gave bonuses.

Pieter Boelen?

Guess again. Hint: here's how it started:
East Martinique

It may be a bit tricky as the quest seems to be very hard to find. Of course I deliberately looked for new side quests here on PA, but for a casual encounter that researcher is very well hidden in a random house in the midst of this huge anonymous city (an AoP:CT model I guess?). But perhaps that is even more intriguing to make it a bit hidden.

As a veteran of the stock game, you should be used to sidequests being hidden. They weren't always clearly signposted. But if you talk to citizens in Santo Domingo, they may mention being envious of the researcher who moved into the big house next to the governor's residence...

But to find the natives in the deep jungle without being told specifically where to go, to go on the adventure with one of them and of course the player-caribs-relationship left ambigious and up to the players decision is very atmospheric. I didn't dare to claim the skull because I was almost afraid of a huge punishment for that treason, after I got the caribs to finally somewhat trust me. Hence I took the tomahawk and the weird boatswain and got the hell out of there.

If you try to keep the skull, the Caribs attack. Good luck rescuing your officer, who is off to the side and surrounded. But you're probably better off being honourable - you can get as much by selling the tomahawk to the researcher as you would for selling the skull, or you can keep the tomahawk as a souvenir. The tomahawk is also not a bad weapon - useless for blocking, as all axes are, but vicious in causing damage.

The quest takes a slightly different route if you try to be clever and go to the first encounter with the Caribs without an officer for them to take hostage.

And there's another, even more hidden sidequest if you visit the tavern in Philipsburg, St. Martin, though you might not want to take it if you value friendship with Holland...

 

[Pieter Boelen]

There are still some locations stacked with weird newly added plants which irritate me

BuildingSet, I assume. You can switch those off.

I just still don't quite understand the skill system and what the two numbers mean.

Left number is "bare skill", right number is "effective skill" after taking into account items and other stuff.
You can switch the game back to the old system.

@Pieter Boelen as far as I see, the init_pc file gives the command name and the default file assigns the respective button. Right now, it still doesn't work the way I planned, I have assigned the arrow keys to both CTL_SHIP_SAIL_RAISE and CTL_MAP_SAIL_RAISE (and _STRIKE) but in 3D sailing mode, it only works with S and W.

"Reset Controls to Default", then try again.

Pieter Boelen?

Decidedly not! I never wrote a quest in my life.
But let's just say... the answer is staring you right in the face.

Bonuses and penalties have always been there, but the display now makes it clear how much of your skill rating is your actual skill and how much is due to bonuses. Even in the stock game, gems gave bonuses.

Really? I couldn't remember and thought that was all mod-added.

 

[BathtubPirate]

Guess again.

But let's just say... the answer is staring you right in the face.

To avoid any confusion, that was meant ironically.

As a veteran of the stock game, you should be used to sidequests being hidden. They weren't always clearly signposted. But if you talk to citizens in Santo Domingo, they may mention being envious of the researcher who moved into the big house next to the governor's residence...

Besides the tricky continuation of "Strange things..." at the church I think they're rather easy to find although of course the characters are not labelled as having a quest to offer. But you're right, since I was specifically looking for a quest I knew where to look for it and didn't talk to the people about rumours. Perhaps the rather large, empty design of the town adds to my feeling, I think town locations from the PotC game are also more intriguing to check out random doors.

If you try to keep the skull...

Certainly I'm gonna play the superb Crystal skull quest again and next time I'll try some different options. Thanks for the tip with Saint Martin, I'm gonna try this one too. I've also played Boatswain Silver Train, Peter Bloods Crew (my second favourite of the new ones) and the Blacque saga which I partially got to work in the stock game but never fixed completely.

"Reset Controls to Default", then try again.

Aye, Cap'n! If it still won't work I think I'll let it be, it's not that big of a deal.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Boatswain

Fred Bob stuff? That was the first side-quest ever added. By @CatalinaThePirate.

Silver Train, Peter Bloods Crew (my second favourite of the new ones)

Both @Bartolomeu o Portugues' work. He also did the entire Bartolomeu and Assassin storylines, so if you like those two sidequests, chances are you'll like those too.
(I did some slight polishing work on Peter Blood's Crew, which is the maximum of quest writing I ever did.)

 

[Grey Roger]

Hidden sidequests: I was thinking more of "Artois Voysey", which only continues if you have him as an active officer when you arrive at Conceicao / La Grenade. It took me ages before I first completed that one!

"Fred Bob": now go to the church in San Juan and talk to the woman there.

"Peter Blood": now go to Guadeloupe with him as an active officer...

"Assassin" / "Bartolomeu": I've played both and can recommend both. There are a few very tricky bits with traps if things go wrong, so save game often.

 

[BathtubPirate]

"Reset Controls to Default", then try again.

It was that simple. I didn't even need to change the control_file anymore. Thanks!

"Fred Bob": now go to the church in San Juan and talk to the woman there.

Check. The lady is safe.

"Peter Blood": now go to Guadeloupe with him as an active officer...

Check. Although I haven't found the brothel yet. I must have double-checked every door in Point de Pitre.

"Assassin" / "Bartolomeu": I've played both and can recommend both. There are a few very tricky bits with traps if things go wrong, so save game often.

I'm gonna do Woodes Rogers next, then one of those two.