Neurodiversity

[Pieter Boelen]

I know it's hard when you've experienced abuse from people with certain traits, but please don't turn ableist. People can be decent regardless of their neurotype. Just because someone is neurotypical doesn't make them a bad person. Whether we are a good or bad person lies with how in tune we are with our intuition (with nature inside us) and in the active choices we make.

I'm not claiming neurotypical people are by definition bad.
The entire concept though seems so very unlikely to me.
And it reeks of "us vs. them" logic, which I'm quite allergic to.

But for certain no type of brain chemistry can make a person bad or good.
It's our choices. And the effects of those choices.
And our willingness to learn and embrace that which is different.

completely at home with socialising with the majority of people, values ego and emotion over truth and reason, has a strong preference for breaking established patterns, and has strong assertive and leadership skills. This provides a strong contrast in her relationship with the show's main character, Adrian Monk, who is autistic, with OCD and various phobias. He values truth and reason above all, lacks adequate social skills with most people, has a strong preference for following established rules/patterns, and has poor assertive and leadership skills.

So confusing.
I've found that I'm surprisingly better at socialising with people than I ever realised.
And I am learning to value ego, because somebody needs to. But not needlessly at the expense of somebody else's ego.
I also strongly value emotion, because emotion is part of the truth.
But never at the expense of truth or reason.
I'll break with established patterns if those patterns are broken; but generally not just for the sake of it.
I will also speak up assertively if something is wrong; especially in relation to truth or reason.
As for my leadership skills, well... PA! is still active and I dare say if I had been a bad leader, it wouldn't be.

But I do value truth and reason above all else.
And I'll happily throw social skills down the drain if I feel that is the right thing to do.
I do also like laying down procedures and following them as there is clear value to having them in many situations.
Plus my assertive and leadership skills keep being questioned by "people out there", though never with sensible reasoning to back up those doubts.

So where does that put me?
And don't worry if you don't have an answer to that.
Nobody else seems to understand it either.
Which is admittedly obnoxious to say the least.
Because as a consequence, nobody understands me and I'm having difficulty with it myself too.

Deal with it, peeps! I am ME!!
And that is really all the categorisation that should matter.

It matters, because as a society, as a collective, we should be catering to all our people, meeting everyone's basic human needs.

To say that it "doesn't matter", or that we are all the mostly the same, means denying the existence and needs of those of us who stand further apart.

I feel like you misunderstood me.
What I meant that "the AMOUNT of difference from the norm" shouldn't matter much.
THAT we are all different, on the other hand, matters very much indeed!!

If I say, "we are all the same", I mean that we are all living beings.
All HUMAN living beings, in fact.
And I find what unites us far more important than what divides us.

For the record, I find the "living" bit even more relevant than the "human" bit.
Because I don't see us as "better" than animals either.
In some ways, maybe even many ways, we are worse.
And animals deserve our empathy too, same as all human beings do.

Because in the end, we're all in this boat together.

 

[Cerez]

I don't see anything wrong with your perspective or points on these topics -- it sounds/feels balanced to me, and that you're on the right track, still learning (as we all are).

I'm not claiming neurotypical people are by definition bad.
The entire concept though seems so very unlikely to me.
And it reeks of "us vs. them" logic, which I'm quite allergic to.

You're not wrong -- there is that potential aspect to it, that discriminating interpretation if segregation is the aim. This is why I've stressed that being neurotypical, too, is a spectrum. There's no clear divisive line between being neurotypical and neurodivergent, or allistic and autistic. There's no reason to look at things black and white, and to forget the shades in-between that connect us.

Neurodiversity advocates for all human brains (bodies) as a healthy natural spectrum. Neurodiversity includes neurotypical people as well, and no two people (or living individuals in general, including plants and animals) are the same.

But for certain no type of brain chemistry can make a person bad or good.
It's our choices. And the effects of those choices.
And our willingness to learn and embrace that which is different.

To keep an open mind, seek the balance, and be accepting. Precisely.

So confusing.

I hope this helps shed a little light on it. You're quite right: you're you, and if you don't want to identify with any label, you don't have to. People should respect your personal choice.

In terms of biological-neurological makeup, you're somewhere on the neurodiversity spectrum between neurotypical and neurodivergent, I believe, because you show mixed traits as far as I can tell -- some neurotypical, and some neurodivergent. Ultimately, it's up to you to learn about your own body and mind, to absorb all kinds of knowledge, to do your own practical research, to find yourself.

Coming out as autistic was far from easy and trauma-free for me, but I have gained much in learning about my body, learning about people, gaining self-confidence, and finding that balance in life that my body needed so much, as well as helping me with finding my kind of people, my community.

In comparison, life before coming out, while I was still masking 24/7, feels like I had been living in chains, full of stress, suffering through it, satisfying others' needs and neglecting my own body and needs, wearing myself down, and all the while not even being aware that there was any other way to be. I feel I had been enslaved with misinformation about my own body and the world, and abused -- all of which in effect I have been.

Nobody else seems to understand it either.

You'll find that most people (professionals included) lack insight, wisdom, when it comes to perceiving the world as nuanced, a varied spectrum.

But nature doesn't confrom to human concepts, it is very much varied, and everything in it is very much a spectrum.

I feel like you misunderstood me.
What I meant that "the AMOUNT of difference from the norm" shouldn't matter much.
THAT we are all different, on the other hand, matters very much indeed!!

The amount of difference matters as well when it comes to social accommodations, empathy, and understanding. This is best explained by Jacky in that web presentation.

If I say, "we are all the same", I mean that we are all living beings.
All HUMAN living beings, in fact.
And I find what unites us far more important than what divides us.

For the record, I find the "living" bit even more relevant than the "human" bit.
Because I don't see us as "better" than animals either.
In some ways, maybe even many ways, we are worse.
And animals deserve our empathy too, same as all human beings do.

Because in the end, we're all in this boat together.

Very true, couldn't agree more.

 

[Cerez]

And, strictly speaking in terms of language, autistic people are not "autistic", and neurotypical people are not "neurotypical". In practice, most autistic people are more concerned about others, about their environment, than about themselves -- even when they don't know how to effectively show their care with allistic people. And most neurotypical people don't have a neurotypical brain, as there is really no such thing as a typical brain -- evey human brain is a little different.

But what these labels help us define are (to put it in simple terms):

Autistic: a person who has natural-born difficulties with conventional means of social communication and relationships, vastly different sensory experiences (and body needs and behaviour) than most other people, and whose brain works in such a way that it is naturally drawn to details and has a strong affinity for patterns.

Neurotypical: a person whose social and other brain functioning and body needs fit within society's current standard of "normal", widely accepted, expected needs and functioning. Who will not have great difficulties adjusting to meet these expectations, and catering to their basic human needs.

Neurodivergent: a person whose social and other brain functioning and body needs don't fit within society's current standard of "normal", widely accepted, expected needs and functioning. Who may have great difficulties adjusting to meet some of these expectations, and/or catering to their basic human needs.

All of this is to address current social inclusions and accommodations that are lacking from our culture and society in meeting everyone's basic human needs. The natural reality is that we are all different and all of us are part of one large and varied human neuro-spectrum that's directly linked to healthy diversity in nature. In other words, we are all human, and we are all different, but we all share certain fundamental things in common -- both with each other and with our living environment (nature).

Edit:

Also:

Allistic: a person who is not autistic. They may be neurotypical or otherwise neurodivergent.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

Can Video Games Make Dyslexic Children Read Better? - IGN

An interesting article, seems that playing video games is more useful than most imagine.

 

[Cerez]

An interesting article, seems that playing video games is more useful than most imagine.

It's not the tool, it's how you/we use it.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Seems a good sentiment for 2020:

Also... good to see you on this side, @Cerez!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Urban Dictionary: Pirate Brain

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

Well I have had dreams about pirates.

Once I had dreamt of a cursed Man o' War raiding the town I was in under the command of captain Barbarossa, who's skeleton was recently revived.

And after that there was a naval battle, me in the classic red striped Corvette from stock PotC and the ghost ship as my enemy.
(Maybe this can be turned into a side quest.)

Another time, I dreamt of the Black Pearl.

So the pirate brain is strong in me.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

A thought that came to my mind about stimming.

Isn't petting an animal for example a dog a type of stimming?
It's also a sign of love and affection but, isn't it an accepted form of stimming?

 

[Cerez]

Isn't petting an animal for example a dog a type of stimming?
It's also a sign of love and affection but, isn't it an accepted form of stimming?

Yep, it sure can be. Many people use their pets to stim. And many pets stim by cuddling -- so it works both ways.

Cats, for example, are famed and notorious for stimming by cuddling anyone and anything on their path. They especially love to rub cheeks, as this is a really pleasurable sign of affection for them.

Dogs mostly stim vocally (barking), by chewing on things, and by chasing their tail, but they can really enjoy things like scratching behind the ears of at the base of their tail on top, and most don't mind a good petting.

Even lizards stim. I've recently had a blue-tongue lizard climb all over my shoes, repeatedly, just because it enjoyed the sensation.

Some animals are trained to aid with stimming and/or are naturally apt at figuring out your stimming needs. See this personal story (and series) by autistic person and self-advocate, Nathan Selove:

Service Dog Tales - YouTube

 

[Cerez]

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

Before I reply to the other remarks here I want to share a story.

It was the Easter 2018 holiday season, I had gone with two of my cousins and a friend of theirs for a trip.

In this trip we met a mare, and later a stallion.

The mare came first since she was less hesitant, while we were petting her, she started rubbing her head on my shoulder and arm.


These two horses are the actual ones from the story.

Maybe this behavior is also stimming.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I was thinking "dancing to loud music" could also serve as neurotypicals' version of stimming.
Which further supports my hypothesis that we are ALL autistic (or all NOT autistic).

Some of us have learned more socially acceptable ways of dealing with it.
But in the end, we're all not as different as we often think.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

Yep, it sure can be. Many people use their pets to stim. And many pets stim by cuddling -- so it works both ways.

A win win situation, always nice!

Cats, for example, are famed and notorious for stimming by cuddling anyone and anything on their path. They especially love to rub cheeks, as this is a really pleasurable sign of affection for them.

Dogs mostly stim vocally (barking), by chewing on things, and by chasing their tail, but they can really enjoy things like scratching behind the ears of at the base of their tail on top, and most don't mind a good petting.

Even lizards stim. I've recently had a blue-tongue lizard climb all over my shoes, repeatedly, just because it enjoyed the sensation.

Seems to me that nature is on our side as for stimming, so take that rude people!

Some animals are trained to aid with stimming and/or are naturally apt at figuring out your stimming needs. See this personal story (and series) by autistic person and self-advocate, Nathan Selove:



Service Dog Tales - YouTube

Thanks for sharing this with me, I really liked it.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

I was thinking "dancing to loud music" could also serve as neurotypicals' version of stimming.
Which further supports my hypothesis that we are ALL autistic (or all NOT autistic).

Some of us have learned more socially acceptable ways of dealing with it.
But in the end, we're all not as different as we often think.

Yep, another example of socially accepted stimming.

All it takes is to observe and think about this, and even more examples will come up.

 

[Cerez]

Before I reply to the other remarks here I want to share a story.

It was the Easter 2018 holiday season, I had gone with two of my cousins and a friend of theirs for a trip.

In this trip we met a mare, and later a stallion.

The mare came first since she was less hesitant, while we were petting her, she started rubbing her head on my shoulder and arm.


These two horses are the actual ones from the story.

Maybe this behavior is also stimming.

They're gorgeous, and yes, it may very well have been, as well as a sign of comfort/affection. Horses use their heads and necks to cuddle.

Heartwarming story, thanks for sharing. ^_^

I was thinking "dancing to loud music" could also serve as neurotypicals' version of stimming.

This comes up a lot. And yes, if you think about what purpose dancing and loud music serves, you'll realise that both are for self-expression and self-stimulation, so yes, technically they are (neurotypical) forms of stimming.

Other neurotypical examples are tapping your foot or fingers on a hard surface, swinging your leg, sitting in unorthodox positions (cross-legged or lifting one leg up), bouncing with joy, etc.

Examples of harmful neurotypical stimming are smoking and social consumption of alcohol.

Which further supports my hypothesis that we are ALL autistic (or all NOT autistic).

Stimming is not exclusive to autistic people. All living creatures stim. Autistic people just do it more (intensively) and in ways that often aren't conventional to neurotypical culture.
Simply having the urge to stim, or even stimming continuously, doesn't make a person necessarily autistic.

Some of us have learned more socially acceptable ways of dealing with it.
But in the end, we're all not as different as we often think.

We're all human, if that's what you mean. But (current, discriminating, mainstream) socially acceptable ways of dealing with it for an autistic person means an enormous stress on their body, which is detrimental to their health in the long run. Autistic people should not have to pretend they are neurotypical, and it's hurtful to imply this. Neurotypical people are allowed to be themselves, so why are not autistic people allowed to do the same with their own body and person?

Not all people are exactly the same, and that's okay -- diversity is a healthy and necessary part of nature.

A win win situation, always nice!

Indeed! The best!

Seems to me that nature is on our side as for stimming, so take that rude people!

Nature is on our side in a lot of things that current human society isn't. Sexual and gender diversity are also something that healthily occurs in nature across all animals species:
Homosexual behavior in animals - Wikipedia

Yet human society is still struggling to accept it. We have only two genders, and you have to be one or the other. And anything that isn't a heterosexual relationship is considered "not normal". Why?! If it healthily occurs in nature, why isn't it "normal"?

Thanks for sharing this with me, I really liked it.

You're totally welcome. I'm glad. ^_^ A little bit of Dyslexic solidarity for you there, and some really great insight into living with a service animal by Nathan.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

people should not have to pretend they are neurotypical, and it's hurtful to imply this.

Good thing then that I implied no such thing.

The only thing that I do imply is that pretty much ANY "us vs. them" logic can lead to harm.
That goes for "Christians vs. Jews" as well as "Neurodiverse vs. Neurotypical".
When in the end, what unites us is much more than what divides.

Your use of the word "imply" implies that I am being hurtful with what I write.
Despite me attempting to do the exact opposite.
And despite the implication happening on your side and not mine.

What I'm going to say now is probably going to hurt you.
So I'll hide it and leave it up to you if you want to look at it:

Spoiler

I'm scared for you.
All I want for you and everyone is to have a good life in your own way.

But you read implications in my words that aren't there.
Then you defend yourself from perceived griefs that didn't happen.
Yet apparently you read more negativity in my words than I put in when writing them.

I actually feel offended by this myself.
I have only been trying to help you.
I do not believe I deserve that.

You are free to say to me whatever you want.
If you wish to imply hurtful behaviour on my part, then go right ahead.
I won't hold it against you.

But I know you do this same thing in real life as well.
And that scares me, because it can easily push away the people who try to help you.

I feel like you are expecting a level of perfection from people that is impossible to reach.
And that could easily be preventing you from getting the help you so desperately need.
It certainly cannot help in your search for some social contacts in your area with people you can connect with on some level.

It basically comes down to:
"Neurotypical is different from neurodiverse", to me, is infinitely less important than "person = person, samey = samey".

So I wish you could find more positive things to focus on.

 

[Cerez]

The only thing that I do imply is that pretty much ANY "us vs. them" logic can lead to harm.
That goes for "Christians vs. Jews" as well as "Neurodiverse vs. Neurotypical".
When in the end, what unites us is much more than what divides.

Claiming that everyone is equal and not catering to the needs of a minority means actively discriminating against that minority and not treating people equally at all. This is why I am very careful with this sentiment whenever you resound it. Allistic people often claim they accept autistic people equally, but then do not consider our needs in the least and try and push ableist neurotypical expectations onto us. Some try and erase our needs and existence.

I don't disagree with your approach -- of course I agree that we need to work together and stand united in our efforts as one people -- I am only wary of and trying to alert to what this uniting message can entail, how it can be abused, and how it is being actively abused in this day and age as it pertains to autistic people and their human rights.

Your use of the word "imply" implies that I am being hurtful with what I write.
Despite me attempting to do the exact opposite.
And despite the implication happening on your side and not mine.

You have to understand that I've been treated bad with such hidden implications and deception all my life. Of course I am going to be wary! It is a mistake to take this personally and think that I do not trust you personally. Least of all am I trying to insult you. I am merely dealing with it the only/best way I know how, and being protective and cautious when I am reminded of past trauma and where ideological discussions like this have spiralled to in the past.

The fact is that ableism is very dominant in our culture, and so is narcissism. Social lies and deception are so widespread that I struggle to keep reality in check. But there is a lot I have learned about human behaviour, and I've learned to recognise patterns. Without aiming to sound/be patronising, there are things I've experienced and I can see that you are likely not yet aware of, especially when it comes to autism and ableism in our culture.

So when I warn you about something, I am not having a personal go at you. I consider you my friend. I wouldn't be sharing these personal things with you if I didn't trust you and care for you. I am not having a go at you, but rather at the social ideas you've picked up -- respecting your independent choices and thinking, but warning you of the dangers I've seen that lie ahead on those paths.

There is no ideology that's flawless, and all thoughts and perspectives can be twisted and abused. Human thinking can turn deceptive when distanced from intuitive reasoning. And nowhere is this more apparent than in what's happening with the mistreatment of autistic people in this society.

I'll read your writing more carefully and respond to anything details I may have missed tomorrow, but I felt I needed to address the bigger picture and lay it out like this for now.

I know my criticisms, enigmatic statements (when I can't explain my full reasoning), and strong moral judgements can sometimes get difficult to bear. Please try to bear in mind what I said here above, though. After you've been through extensive and prolonged trauma, you start to see things quite differently than most people -- and that doesn't mean that you are necessarily wrong. Knowing the full impact of potential negative consequences of certain thoughts and actions, you can't help but become more cautious.

 

[Cerez]

Yet apparently you read more negativity in my words than I put in when writing them.

This is an accurate perception. I know that your meaning is not so deep, as you've only become acquainted with these thoughts/concepts recently, but I've seen where such thinking can lead and I've personally felt the negative effects of it. So when you mention certain things and talk of them briefly, I get flashbacks and see the deeper underlying social problems with such ways of thinking. I try to relate/explain these problems as best as I can, and so you get the (right) intuitive feeling that I am speaking of way more than what you had intended to say with those words.

Often things that sound well-intentioned carry dark social implications underneath -- not intended by you personally, but still present in society at large.

So saying that we are in the same shoes and we stand united while actively socially dismissing the needs of disabled people, for example, can lead to the erasure of disabled people. Claiming that we are all autistic and none of us are can mean depriving people of support they direly need.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Claiming that everyone is equal and not catering to the needs of a minority means actively discriminating against that minority and not treating people equally at all.

Again you put meaning in my words that goes exactly against what I mean.

I never said everyone should be treated the same.
Except where "the same" means "with basic human decency" or such.

What unites is IS greater than what divides us though.
And focusing on building bridges (finding the connection) instead of driving wedges (dividing ourselves) IS the path to a better future.
I am convinced of that.

But that means letting everyone be who they are.
And celebrating our differences, rather than making that a problem of some sort.

I want to do that from a place of "everyone is welcome" though.
Instead of an "autistic vs. allistic" mindset, which may be momentarily required, but eventually should make way for something more positive.