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More "real RPG" elements

Oh; all right. Perks or abilities; called perks in the code and abilities in the game. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
Well, you have ten different skills, alright? Sailing, fencing, commerce - you name it. These go in range from level 1 - 10. Those are your character, they makes you and your officers' characters. If you ask me, that is not very RPG-like. It is not enough to build a character and hence the subject of this thread.

What I mean, is simply to take the current perks-system with a boolean "checked/unchecked" and make it an int, ranging from 1-10 as well.

We have the player-types merchant, military, social climber and so on. Transfer the special perks to each of their speciality.

I.e. every player-type would keep his basic skills (sailing, fencing, cannons, commerce etc) and in addition, certain groups of perks, related to his character. I.e. if the player chooses to play as a merchant, he got the basic skills like we have now + the commerce group (basic commerce, advanced commerce, thrusted lad etc) This would give him limitations, yes - he would not have the cannon-perks group, that group is for officers who are handling cannons. But he has the advantage of developing his skills as a merchant above the level of a military player-type. And not only as a checklist, but as a level range which takes time to build = character development.

Does it make sense? I realize, SuperDurnius knows what he is talking about and I like his presentation of a complete RPG-system.
And I dont know much about RPG's, but this could be done.
 
I see. I'm not really sure I like that, IMO just because you start life as a merchant shouldn't prevent you from learning another skill set, <i>ever</i>.

COAS works a lot differently in the skill system, actually. Skills are divided into personal skills and ship skills, and go from 1 all the way to 100, and they increase with use, you don't distribute points anywhere (beyond the initial set up of your base stats). To gain a level, you have to gain a certain number of skill increases (depending on your intelligence score) of any type, to gain a ship perk you have to gain a certain number of ship skill increases, and to gain a personal perk you have to gain a certain number of personal skill increases.

I like this system a lot, mostly because it doesn't allow you to just pump skill points where you want them. You only get good at a skill if you actually practice it. The only gripe I have with it is that the only limitation for which perks you can pick is that for the best perks you have to have also the prerequisite, lower perks. Which means that you can channel perk points gained from, say, trade skill increases into navigation or grappling perks even when your actual skill in those areas is miniscule. So ideally perks would not only require other perks first but also a certain level in the related skill. But that's just a minor thing, overall I like this system a lot. I've always liked it in Bethsoft's games and I think Seaward made the right choice to rip it off almost verbatim.
 
I see what you mean, and my suggestion is just one out of many ways you could stalk the point-plumbing and flatten it out over a longer time-of-play <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> A parallel social skill system to the ship skills? Sounds great, we need more social skills, I am getting too grown up for just looting ships and attend brothels <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

Hmm it would be rather difficult to differentiate the classes of skillpoints to influence eachother. Our programmers can work wonders, though!
I have'nt got to play CoAS that much, mostly running around in some starting quest being body-searched for weapons by soldiers...I figured, it would be a long time before I got to sail something at all, so I lost interest within an hour.
But I look forward to learn how that system is working.
 
lol sounds like you are enjoying the peter blood line as much as i did i think i ran around for 2 hours before i restarted.
 
<!--quoteo(post=332554:date=Jun 25 2009, 03:23 AM:name=PeterWillemoes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PeterWillemoes @ Jun 25 2009, 03:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332554"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have'nt got to play CoAS that much, mostly running around in some starting quest being body-searched for weapons by soldiers...I figured, it would be a long time before I got to sail something at all, so I lost interest within an hour.
But I look forward to learn how that system is working.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can pick one of the other character and get to sail right away. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
 
Other things that would add immensely to immersion is a more interactive environment. I want to be able to thieve all that fruit and other stuff that appears to be sitting on the tables, mantles and other places in the game world.

Let me have animals to hunt, trees to run through or climb.

Allow me to go anywhere on the ship, even to the top of the masts if I so desire.

Let me steer the ship by grabbing the wheel.

Allow me to take control of one of the guns and manually aim that one gun if I want.

Make combat damage to the ships a physical change to the models on the fly. (This one would be tough, but still very achievable)

Give me the ability to craft my own items in the game world from all the materials that I should be able to gather up if thats what I want to do.

Give me a variety of hulls, mast plans and other details I can pick and choose from so my ship is as individual as my character is.

There, that should be a bit to stuff in your pipe and smoke!

Cap'n Drow
 
I definitly do like the interactivity thing! But as far as customizing everything is concerned, I don't really see the point.
A couple of choices is good. Virtually infinite amounts of choices, not so much. At least not for me.
I don't need to select the colour of my player character's eyebrows seperately, which I subsequent won't ever see again anyway. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
That depends. I am quite able to pan my way around my character and there are times I enjoy changing the clothing and gear on my chars in various games, among them Elder Scrolls - Morrowind, Elder Scrolls - Oblivion, Neverwinter Nights, Neverwinter Nights 2 and many other RPG style games, then taking 'Beauty' shots to show off all that cool stuff.

I would like to be able to chose things during run time of the game like the sails that are on my ship, the mast arrangement/sail plan for her, the figurehead as well as the paint scheme.

These are all items that if modifiable would give players even more a sense of the ship being THEIRS rather than some pre-moulded vessel that they have no real choices on her setup.

Cap'n Drow
 
Figurehead and paint scheme I can understand. Sail plan would get complicated, because a different sail plan would have different sailing stats.
Then you'd have to calculate the resultating sailing stats based on the modified sail plan.
Could be fun if the default sail plan is not ideal and you could make your ship faster and more manoeuvrable by tweaking it.

What I wonder about is what tweaking is good and what tweaking is overkill.
I take it you agree that my example of "select[ing] the colour of my player character's eyebrows seperately" is a bit over-the-top, no? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
Most of the calculations can occur in the background, but that is part of the point of being allowed to choose a modified sail plan. You can fiddle and tweak your ships performance profile to fit in with your own personal preferences rather than being stuck with a specific ship of a class you may not want to use, simply because its the ONLY ship in the game that has the sailing characteristics you are after.

It may be more work on the back-end, but I feel ultimately worthwhile for the players enjoyment on the front end.

Cap'n Drow
 
Oh... I didn't mean the PLAYER doing the calculations!!! But making the game determine the effect of different sail schemes would be hard too.
Next thing you know, you'll be able to tweak hullshape too and we'll be needing a complete hydro- and aerodynamic calculation tool in the background. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
But indeed it COULD add gameplay value. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
hmm Me just thought you were passing ironic smacks around in your first post, Cap'n_Drow, but appearently I was wrong <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

I'd also like to see texturized naming of your ship <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> I'm serious! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> I know, replacement of the figurehead is a BIG deal in VCO as well, and I never quite understood the particular reason why. Its function is to visualize the shipname, and those two things are what makes the ship 100% unique.

But, being able to replace these two things _together_ would...

Arh, we are dreamin here <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
I don't think we are, Peter. Its just a matter of getting the engine to do what we want it to, whether it is the Storm engine or something else entirely.

Everything we are discussing is possible and almost all of them have been done in one game or another.

Just not all at once in a pirate RPG yet.

Cap'n Drow
 
No I guess you are right, we are certainly doing a lot of researching and exploration - even with results. Within the last year, Kazeite managed to add custom made ships into the game, you are doing research on how to replace textures dynamically ingame, yohoho managed to get a custom island into the game with buildings on it. Not bad, not bad <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=332796:date=Jun 25 2009, 10:04 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Jun 25 2009, 10:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332796"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh... I didn't mean the PLAYER doing the calculations!!! But making the game determine the effect of different sail schemes would be hard too.
Next thing you know, you'll be able to tweak hullshape too and we'll be needing a complete hydro- and aerodynamic calculation tool in the background. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
But indeed it COULD add gameplay value. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think it would be all that difficult. I mean, you don't actually have to do a complete simulation the way, say, X-plane does. Now that's one <i>hardcore</i> flight sim, you can throw together a 3D model of a plane and the program will figure out how (if) it's going to fly. That's a bit too hardcore even for me, something far simpler would do the trick. Heck, even a Need for Speed level of realism in terms of upgrades/modifications would be an improvement over what we have in COAS.

Also, studsails!

<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/USS_Monongahela_(1862).jpg/300px-USS_Monongahela_(1862).jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

On the other hand, fiddling around with the sail plan seems a bit pointless to me. I mean, ship builders have hundreds of years of experience with this stuff, so if the system is really solid and realistic you're going to end up using one of the tried and true designs anyway. So as far as customizing sails goes, I'd just have the player to pick one of pre-made sail plans and allow just for making sails larger, by means of lenghtening the masts and yards, with corresponding changes in ship stability, crew labor requirements, etc.
On the other hand, customizing hulls could really use an overhaul. I mean, I have a ton of cargo space on my combat ship that I never ever use. Why can't I convert some of that into living space to allow for more crew? Why can't I have more gun ports made?
 
In half-life 2, one of your missions were to sail a mudboat with a prop-engine across a wall. To do that, you needed to adjust a ramp consisting of a lobster-cage in the botton, that needed to be filled with a certain amount of empty cans and stuff, that could float. The sum of their float ability would at last tip the ramp, so you could jump the wall in the mudracer <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

If you did not fill the cage with more than enough, the ramp would sink under the weight of the racer while trying to get in the air.
I dont think, the water calculated resistance of the hull, but if you asked the physics engine to do it, it could probably be done with code. Its not far away, but in my humble opinion it is not important.
 
Don't forget some facts, about Oblivion engine (If I remember correctly, this will be used for k4, right?)

1. All games on this engine is long quest-ranged RPG games. With ability to add more quests as 'mods' without starting new game. So no aging with degrading skills I think...
2. Most of those games have Skill systems I written there (more or less)... So it won't take much work to make it I'd like to see...
3. All those games have possibilities to chose your character completely from scratch:
face — hair, skin color, hair color, beard, length of hair, age of character (texture)
Body — mostly race difference...
Starting stats — strength and etc...
Some other things — (as some perks (skills) in fallout 3 or your horoscope in Oblivion)
4. All of those games have fully changeable character look, which fully depends of your equipment (helmets, armors, amulets, boots, weapons, etc...)
 
Oh, by the way.. All those games have posibilie to add mods (and remove them all at any time)... And that do not require to start new game...

If I add new weapon as mod... And equip character with him... And after that I simply remove that weapon mod... My saved game will simply load with no weapon in my inventory.. The same with quests, locations and etc...
 
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