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Learning 3D, would like to build ships for Hearts of Oak

Alex Connor

Alex Connor

HoO Team Member
3D Artist
I enjoy history, have read the Sharpe series, Bolitho series, some of the Ramage books, etc. Played Pirates of the Burning Sea since 2 years ago, drawn by the idea of sailing ships and pirates but the PvP has kept me playing ever since.

Downloaded Google Sketchup on an impulse slightly over 3 weeks ago, found it very intuitive, first time I've had any success trying to learn a 3D program. Originally intended to produce a model for PotBS, but with their 3 man dev team getting anything ingame seems unlikely.

So this is the HMS Shannon, my first 3D project. Currently at around 15k tris without armament, or 45k with. Thanks to Captain Armstrong, Armada and Post Captain who have been helping me with details large and small :)



Excited about Hearts of Oak, looks like it could be everything that could be wanted from such a game, and I would be honoured by the chance to participate in its creation.
 
I've added you to the 3D Artists' group. :cheers

There are some things you should note regarding ship construction for the game:
  • The first models we're using should be from the mid-eighteenth century. Earlier or later ships will be included eventually, or for proof-of-concept purposes etc.
  • We expect all models to have a full interior. Sometimes plans don't cater for this level of detail, so seek advice from other modellers if necessary.
  • Threads about models intended for this game should be in the Game World Content sub-forum.
  • We will (eventually) have a specific set of textures for everyone to use, mostly using PotBS style UV mapping.
  • Cannons should be excluded from the model, as they will be added as separate models in-game.
  • The models will need to be rigged for animations, such as gunports opening/closing, but we don't have specific details at this time. Other modellers can do this stage for you.
  • The models should be exported to the latest FBX format when finished.

That covers pretty much everything (I'll add this info to a pinned thread at some point). We'll answer any questions and help you out as best we can. :)

Regarding the Shannon, I'd say you should focus on making the ship to PotBS standards at first, so we can import her into PotC and CoAS.
Asking you to model her with a full interior would probably be overkill for your first project, and it would take much longer to finish.
 
Good job Alex!

I have a few questions for you too Armada...

1. How are sails done? How were they done in PotC?
2. Did you guys say you had some tools somewhere to do FBX conversion? Or am I out of luck if I only have blender?
 
1. Sails are generated by the game engine in PotC and AoP/CoAS. You just need to add the locators (eg. corner coordinates) and have them set to the "sail" type.
 
Welcome aboard as an official member of the team! I'd say finish the Shannon for POTC/COAS/POTBS first, then worry about Hearts of Oak Modelling. It will be good practice, and the polygon and interior requirements are going to be so different for Hearts of Oak that it makes sense to build the non-Hearts of Oak version first, and worry about modifying it later.
 
mbowen89 said:
1. How are sails done? How were they done in PotC?
2. Did you guys say you had some tools somewhere to do FBX conversion? Or am I out of luck if I only have blender?
Click to expand...
In Hearts of Oak, I'm not 100% sure how we'll handle the sails. We might be able to use a similar method to PotC, unless we need to incorporate the sails with the actual ship models.

You could probably use a plugin for Blender to export to FBX format, but I'm not sure if one exists which works with the latest FBX version supported by the UDK.
However, you could still use the plugin to export the model for another modeller to export via Maya or 3ds Max, which both support the latest FBX version.
 
Armada said:
In Hearts of Oak, I'm not 100% sure how we'll handle the sails. We might be able to use a similar method to PotC, unless we need to incorporate the sails with the actual ship models.
Click to expand...
If we do have to include the sails with the models, how would we animate them depending on the wind?
 
Well the yards will need to be animated to turn with the wind, so the sails would turn with them. And the sails' billowing animation could perhaps change depending on wind speed.
The billowing effect itself could be created by using wind simulation in Maya, which I've already experimented with for the Rossiya renders.
 
Was there a free version of Maya or 3ds max that has been talked about on the forum somewhere, so I can play with fbx?
 
Thanks for the title and the replies :)

Armada said:
Regarding the Shannon, I'd say you should focus on making the ship to PotBS standards at first, so we can import her into PotC and CoAS.
Asking you to model her with a full interior would probably be overkill for your first project, and it would take much longer to finish.
Click to expand...

Plan at this stage is to finish Shannon with full exterior detail and any gundeck detail that can be seen from outside the model. At my current level of detail I'm estimating this would take 45-50k tris, so I've got a similar amount to play with for increasing detail (rounded instead of square rails, full stern carvings etc). No plans to go higher than that for these parts of the model, even for Hearts of Oak. Any visual failings in detail would be my modelling skills, not the polycount.


(I know these crude carvings here are ugly, regard as proof-of-concept not the finished item;))

Once Shannon is complete to this level and in PotC/AoP I plan to use the model to produce two more frigate classes, Pallas (HMS Java) and Lively (HMS Macedonian).

Pallas class has almost identical hull lines, dimensions, and even similar details, most of the changes required will be minor. Examples of the 54 ship Pallas class saw service in the French, British, Dutch, Austrian and Italian navies.

Lively class has a strong resemblance to the Leda class and I will either replace or remodel the main hull to match the differing hull lines and then adjust other details as needed. Much easier than starting a new model, and the finished product should be at least 95% as accurate to the Lively class as the Shannon is to the Leda class.

btw, don't regard this as "staking claim" to either class ;)

Once Hearts of Oak looks like its reaching a stage where these models can be useful I'll model the rest of the interior, which should be usable with minimal adjustments between all 3 models.
 
Alex Connor said:
Thanks for the title and the replies :)



Plan at this stage is to finish Shannon with full exterior detail and any gundeck detail that can be seen from outside the model. At my current level of detail I'm estimating this would take 45-50k tris, so I've got a similar amount to play with for increasing detail (rounded instead of square rails, full stern carvings etc). No plans to go higher than that for these parts of the model, even for Hearts of Oak. Any visual failings in detail would be my modelling skills, not the polycount.


(I know these crude carvings here are ugly, regard as proof-of-concept not the finished item;))
Click to expand...
Sounds like a good plan!:danceThose carvings look like the ones on the Trincomalee, just not as tall. keep up the good work!
Alex Connor said:
Once Shannon is complete to this level and in PotC/AoP I plan to use the model to produce two more frigate classes, Pallas (HMS Java) and Lively (HMS Macedonian).

Pallas class has almost identical hull lines, dimensions, and even similar details, most of the changes required will be minor. Examples of the 54 ship Pallas class saw service in the French, British, Dutch, Austrian and Italian navies.
Click to expand...

That would be rather...redundant IMO, seeing as the Pallas class is exactly the same as the Hebe, just expanded by a couple of feet. The authoritative work on french frigates, Jean Boudriot's History of the french frigate, simply considers them as one group, the Sane designed frigate. Though of course the Pallas, virgine, Hortense etc subgroups are recognized as having slight differences. Simply making a version of the Hebe with fully built up bulwarks would give nearly the exact same appearance as building an entirely new ship of the Pallas class. the tumblehome of the Pallas class (and their french layout and decorations) makes them completely different from the Leda class above water, and their deck layouts were rather different, the French and English had distinctly different practices for this, not to mention the style of the railings and interior detail etc. There is also a severe lack of satisfactory complete plans of the ships of the Pallas class as they appeared in French service. This is much of the reason why I chose the Proserpine of 1785 (Hebe class) for the bow and stern of the Hebe. Though old enough to be accurate for the oldest ships of the class, it is very typically french and modern enough to be perfectly accurate for ships built through the Napoleonic wars. The decorations also differed much more from ship to ship than in English classes, so there weren't really standard decorations, though a few ships within the class might have shared the same decorations.

Alex Connor said:
Lively class has a strong resemblance to the Leda class and I will either replace or remodel the main hull to match the differing hull lines and then adjust other details as needed. Much easier than starting a new model, and the finished product should be at least 95% as accurate to the Lively class as the Shannon is to the Leda class.

btw, don't regard this as "staking claim" to either class ;)

Once Hearts of Oak looks like its reaching a stage where these models can be useful I'll model the rest of the interior, which should be usable with minimal adjustments between all 3 models.
Click to expand...

The Lively class is also a British 38 gun frigate class and a contemporary of the Leda, yes. They were both very good performers and became the standard two British 38 gun classes built. There the similarities end. The Lively had a completely different hull form, dimensions, Bow and stern fittings and decorations, everything. One could use the same deck details such as capstan and chainplate models and the like for both,even they would need to be adjusted. The Lively also had a different interior from the Leda class, though at least the same general priorities behind the placement of everything as they were both British. The ships would need completely different models. tweaking one model to match the other design would create many problems and would likely be more difficult and time consuming than just building a new ship.
 
mbowen89 said:
Was there a free version of Maya or 3ds max that has been talked about on the forum somewhere, so I can play with fbx?
Click to expand...
You can get free versions via the Autodesk Education Community here: http://students.autodesk.com/
You'll need to sign up in order to download the software, so I think you have to pretend to be either a student or unemployed.
If that doesn't work, you can always use a free trial version of the commercial software from Autodesk's main site: http://www.autodesk.com/free-trials
 
Captain Armstrong said:
The Lively class is also a British 38 gun frigate class and a contemporary of the Leda, yes. They were both very good performers and became the standard two British 38 gun classes built. There the similarities end. The Lively had a completely different hull form, dimensions, Bow and stern fittings and decorations, everything. One could use the same deck details such as capstan and chainplate models and the like for both,even they would need to be adjusted. The Lively also had a different interior from the Leda class, though at least the same general priorities behind the placement of everything as they were both British. The ships would need completely different models. tweaking one model to match the other design would create many problems and would likely be more difficult and time consuming than just building a new ship.
Click to expand...
I'll bow to your superior knowledge of the subject and accept the Hebe would be a better base for a Pallas class (group?) frigate :)

But IMO much easier to adapt the Leda class model for the Lively than start over.

Plan would be,
~ model new hull body from plans
~ adjust keel/stem shape
~ new base deck meshes, but deck detail simply moved as required
~ stern gallery is very similar, adjust shape to match new hull, reshape upper edge and rework details/decor
~ new head
~ rigging will be very similar because of standardised British design, simply adjust placement/dimensions/details as required
~ same lower decks model with minor cosmetic changes. (design would like you say be similar, and dimensions match)

To me this is easier...
 
well there is certainly much that could be used from one on the other, and then readjusted, such as the deck fittings. But I think it would be much easier to just build a new hull, there are so many difficulties that could be created with the placement of the gunports and different sheer and such. The stern gallery is similar, but not the same. I could see the base pieces being reuse because the same amount of segments would likely work for both, but they would still need to be adjusted to the new shape. All the decorations would need replacing (I have a detailed plan for both the bow and stern of lively class ships that these could be built from.) Anyways, this is all fairly far down the line if we are talking Hearts of Oak....I know Bava has expressed interest in building the Lively for Hearts of Oak at some point, and I was planning on building her if he didn't get to it, so we will have to see who gets there first ;)
 
Just want to be sure you don't rush things too much :p I grew impatient with some of my earliest ships and they weren't as well done as a result. To be fair, youre doing a great job with the Shannon, she is much better done than my first ship, I just wouldn't want to see shortcuts taken with the Lively(especially when they might actually make it more difficult). I don't want to discourage you from building the Lively! I'm sure you could do her justice. And it would be great to see variants of the Hebe with different decorations eventually, because they will be so common the variety would be nice, but new ships should probably be the priority right now

I would definitely encourage a Temeraire class 74! But I think Wedori has planned to build a Temeraire class 74 for the drakes legacy project, which we can use in Hearts of Oak...I'll double check with him about this. we already have one in POTC/COAS, but we will need a new model for Hearts of Oak.

I'd suggest taking a look at these, to see what has already been started or planned.

ships being built for a sister project, Drakes Legacy, to be used in Hearts of Oak as well.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43901618/CArmstrong/misc/DrakesLegacy_Ships_list.xls

Ships planned for Hearts of Oak (from what intentions and projects have been announced)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43901618/CArmstrong/misc/CA_Hearts_of_Oak_Ships_list-2.xls

Hearts of Oak ships needed:
http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/ships-we-need.19549/

Thread with lots of plans from awhile back:
http://www.piratesahoy.net/threads/...ld-ships-for-hearts-of-oak.20446/#post-448525
 
@Alex: Can I just say, I'd encourage slightly older vessels to be made than Napoleonic ones at this stage. Something like the 1750s, 60s and 70s would be preferable. :wp

Or, if that really doesn't interest you, we should at least focus on producing different varieties of ships. We don't want a surplus of frigates and hardly any other classes, for example.
For your information, I'm working on the Bellona class 74 of 1760, and from experience, I reckon you might want to stick with smaller vessels to begin with.
It's a lot more work making a bigger ship, especially considering the interior details. :shock
 
Prefer the Napoleonic era, older ships have less interest for me...

Looking at those lists, there will be plenty of frigates (mostly large), a variety of ships of the line and a few smaller warships, but an almost complete absence of merchant ships.

So I'll probably go with an East Indiaman.

Which, since it will be hunted by all will be a large and powerful Indiaman, and come with an upgunned Navy service version just to make sure people are wary of the model :D
 
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