Hornblower Storyline Ship Use

[Pieter Boelen]

As I've suggested before, I'd like to go through all storylines and put all our new high-detail ship models to good use where appropriate.
The Hornblower storyline strikes me as a good place to start, since we've got so many custom new British Royal Navy ship models while the story still uses so many stock game reskins.
So without further ado, I will post a list of all ships used in the story, along with comments of mine on what to swap out. Please post your comments if you've got any too!

HMS Justinian (HMS_Bellona), captained by Captain Keene - Storyline start ship, Ship of the line, 74 guns - High detail model as player ship = Good
HMS Indefatigable (HMS_Indefatigable), captained by Sir Edward Pellew - Used as player ship, razee frigate, 44 guns - High detail model as player ship = Good
HMS Dreadnought (RN_SuperiorWarship), captained by Dreadnought Foster - Non-canon navy ship
HMS Phantom (RN_FirstRate) captained by Black Charlie Hammond - Non-canon navy ship - Not a bad ship per se, but used twice; maybe use RN_Battleship instead?
HMS Hound (RN_Corvette) captained by Captain Harvey - Non-canon navy ship
HMS Renown (RN_Superbe) captained by Captain James Sawyer - Used as player ship, Ship of the line, 74 guns - Can we do better here? What other British 74s do we have?
HMS Lydia (RN_Surprise) captained by Lt. Percy Buckland - Frigate, 36 guns - Maybe use RN_Surprise instead? That's a 32 gun ship and therefore pretty close
HMS Mulberry (RN_BattleFrigate) captain by Lt. William Bush - Non-canon navy ship - RN_Corvette used for the third time; need to use something else
HMS Resource (HMS_Speedy) captain by Lt. Uriah Quelp - Non-canon navy ship - Nice ship model, but doesn't get much use if I'm not mistaken
Téméraire (FR_Superbe) captained by French captain - Used as enemy ship in a big battle with the Indefatigable and Justinian, but doesn't even have a French paint scheme = MUST DO BETTER! Maybe even... FR_FirstRate? That'd be epic!
Fast Death (PiratCorvette50) captained by Simon Blunden - Unused character and ship?
Le Reve (FR_Sloop) - Used as player ship, sloop - Not a brilliant boat, but at least she's got additional detail and a French colour scheme
fire ship (RN_Corvette) - Used as player ship, Is this not the ship that explodes in port? We could use a nicer model for that, since the RN_Corvette is used several times already. Any thoughts?
Magicienne (FR_BattleFrigate) - Used as player ship - Could this be a good spot to put the FR_Fleuron or FR_Superbe to use instead?
HMS Retribution (HMS_Sophie) - Used as player ship, sloop, 18 guns - We can do better than this! The HMS_Sophie is an 18 gun ship
HMS Hotspur (HMS_Greyhound) - Used as player ship, sloop, 20 guns - Maybe use HMS_Sophie for HMS Retribution as per above? If so, HMS_Greyhound is a 22 gun ship and could serve as a proper replacement

High-detail British ships NOT used in this storyline (and would be nice if they were!) and not posted above as suggested replacements:
- HMS_Victory/RN_FirstRate, 108 guns
- RN_BattleFrigate, 56 guns
- RN_Poseidon, 66 guns

So... anyone any thoughts here?

 

[Armada]

- HMS Phantom (RN_SuperiorWarship) captained by Black Charlie Hammond - RN_Battleship is not period correct, so we're not using her.
Maybe keep as-is, because the player doesn't use her. Or use RN_FirstRate...
- HMS Renown (RN_SotL) captained by Captain James Sawyer - Well, we don't have any other British 74's (and the SotL is 94 guns, anyway).
Maybe a repaint of Le Superbe would work, though...
- HMS Lydia (RN_Corvette) captained by Lt. Percy Buckland - RN_Surprise would look great, but only if she uses the yellow/black colours to match the others.
We planned to use the yellow/blue texture I made for this ship in Beta 2, so maybe we'll need two versions of the ship?
Probably even a French texture at some point, but I know you don't want to consider that yet.
- HMS Mulberry (RN_Corvette) captain by Lt. William Bush - Maybe use RN_BattleFrigate?
- Volcano (Battleship1) captained by French captain - Either FR_Superbe or FR_FirstRate would be great. Depends if the player can handle the latter, though...
- fire ship (RN_Corvette) - Maybe keep as-is, going by the suggestions to replace other RN_Corvettes above?
- Magicienne (FR_Frigate) - Definitely not FR_Fleuron, she's not period correct. Maybe either a French texture of the Indefatigable, or use FR_BattleFrigate?
- HMS Retribution (PiratBrig50) - I was thinking maybe use HMS_Speedy here, since she's not seen so much in her other role? If not, then go with HMS_Sophie.
- HMS Hotspur (HMS_Sophie) - Keep as-is if we use HMS_Speedy for above, else use HMS_Greyhound.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

- HMS Phantom (RN_SuperiorWarship) captained by Black Charlie Hammond - RN_Battleship is not period correct, so we're not using her.
Maybe keep as-is, because the player doesn't use her. Or use RN_FirstRate...

I think she's used in the background somewhere, but not seen much otherwise. Would be nice to put RN_FirstRate to use somewhere, so I like that.

- HMS Renown (RN_SotL) captained by Captain James Sawyer - Well, we don't have any other British 74's (and the SotL is 94 guns, anyway).
Maybe a repaint of Le Superbe would work, though...

Keep as-is for now then. Maybe one day...

- HMS Lydia (RN_Corvette) captained by Lt. Percy Buckland - RN_Surprise would look great, but only if she uses the yellow/black colours to match the others.
We planned to use the yellow/blue texture I made for this ship in Beta 2, so maybe we'll need two versions of the ship?
Probably even a French texture at some point, but I know you don't want to consider that yet.

Your yellow/blue Surprise is the HMS_Surprise, not the RN_Surprise.
I think the HMS_Surprise should remain available as unique Master & Commander storyline ship, so I was suggesting the yellow/black other version instead.

- HMS Mulberry (RN_Corvette) captain by Lt. William Bush - Maybe use RN_BattleFrigate?

Why not?

- Volcano (Battleship1) captained by French captain - Either FR_Superbe or FR_FirstRate would be great. Depends if the player can handle the latter, though...

I'd prefer putting FR_FirstRate in there on account of the intended epic-ness of the battle. There IS two ships against her, so we might be able to get away with it.

- fire ship (RN_Corvette) - Maybe keep as-is, going by the suggestions to replace other RN_Corvettes above?

Can do.

- Magicienne (FR_Frigate) - Definitely not FR_Fleuron, she's not period correct. Maybe either a French texture of the Indefatigable, or use FR_BattleFrigate?

FR_BattleFrigate works for me.

- HMS Retribution (PiratBrig50) - I was thinking maybe use HMS_Speedy here, since she's not seen so much in her other role? If not, then go with HMS_Sophie.
- HMS Hotspur (HMS_Sophie) - Keep as-is if we use HMS_Speedy for above, else use HMS_Greyhound.

If we go with your idea, where would we use HMS_Greyhound though? She seems too good not to use to me.
Note that the HMS_Speedy apparently DOES get some "screentime". As per the walkthrough: "Sail to Cayman with Lt. Quelp's ship as escort". That not too shabby, is it?

If FR_Fleuron is not period-correct, would I be correct in saying that RN_Poseidon is not correct either and therefore shouldn't be used?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

All code adjustments made as per above; I reckon this should work and should help greatly in making the Hornblower storyline look and feel much better AND putting all our good new models to use.
There's virtually no high-detail RN ship models that are NOT used, so that's good!

 

[Armada]

- HMS Renown (RN_SotL) captained by Captain James Sawyer - Well, we don't have any other British 74's (and the SotL is 94 guns, anyway).
Maybe a repaint of Le Superbe would work, though...

Keep as-is for now then. Maybe one day...

I can sort out a texture very quickly if you like. Only one simple texture needs editing, and some of the models need HEX editing, so it's not a problem.

EDIT: Even better idea: Bellona and Superbe are the same number of letters in length, so the hull of either one can be HEX edited to use the other's hull texture!
Then you'd only need to make the hull use different desk.tga- and WoodGrain-based textures, and make sure the masts match the deck.
I can sort that out instead, if you like.

Your yellow/blue Surprise is the HMS_Surprise, not the RN_Surprise.
I think the HMS_Surprise should remain available as unique Master & Commander storyline ship, so I was suggesting the yellow/black other version instead.

No, I meant the texture I made for RN_Surprise shown here. I haven't touched HMS_Surprise, besides the deck texture.
I thought we agreed somewhere that said blue texture would be nice to use for variety's sake, plus the fact that it's still historically accurate.
That's why I'm suggesting two versions, because the blue texture wouldn't match the rest of the black ones used in the storyline.
There's only one extra texture if we do that, and judging by the huge number of ships and textures we're dropping, that should be OK to fit in, right?

If we go with your idea, where would we use HMS_Greyhound though? She seems too good not to use to me.
Note that the HMS_Speedy apparently DOES get some "screentime". As per the walkthrough: "Sail to Cayman with Lt. Quelp's ship as escort". That not too shabby, is it?

OK then, we'll go with the Greyhound arrangement. I underestimated the significance of the Speedy's role based on how you described it before. ops

If FR_Fleuron is not period-correct, would I be correct in saying that RN_Poseidon is not correct either and therefore shouldn't be used?

Yep, that's right. Maybe she could be used in an earlier storyline, though.

 

[Seb]

Le Reve (FR_Sloop) - Used as player ship, sloop - Not a brilliant boat, but at least she's got additional detail and a French colour scheme

What about a retexture of the AOP sloop being upgraded? It could be done quite quickly?! And it would be a chance to get rid of a stock sloop rextexture in the general ships line up?!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I can sort out a texture very quickly if you like. Only one simple texture needs editing, and some of the models need HEX editing, so it's not a problem.

EDIT: Even better idea: Bellona and Superbe are the same number of letters in length, so the hull of either one can be HEX edited to use the other's hull texture!
Then you'd only need to make the hull use different desk.tga- and WoodGrain-based textures, and make sure the masts match the deck.
I can sort that out instead, if you like.

RN_SotL isn't a bad model with all the added detail; we can keep her. No need to make more work for now.

No, I meant the texture I made for RN_Surprise shown here. I haven't touched HMS_Surprise, besides the deck texture.
I thought we agreed somewhere that said blue texture would be nice to use for variety's sake, plus the fact that it's still historically accurate.
That's why I'm suggesting two versions, because the blue texture wouldn't match the rest of the black ones used in the storyline.
There's only one extra texture if we do that, and judging by the huge number of ships and textures we're dropping, that should be OK to fit in, right?

I don't have that texture in my game; for me, the RN_Surprise is black and yellow. I thought it was the HMS_Surprise that was supposed to end up blue?

OK then, we'll go with the Greyhound arrangement. I underestimated the significance of the Speedy's role based on how you described it before. ops

As did I, which is why I went to check.

Yep, that's right. Maybe she could be used in an earlier storyline, though.

I'm sure we can find some use for her.

What about a retexture of the AOP sloop being upgraded? It could be done quite quickly?! And it would be a chance to get rid of a stock sloop rextexture in the general ships line up?!

I like that idea; would be better for sure!

 

[Armada]

RN_SotL isn't a bad model with all the added detail; we can keep her. No need to make more work for now.

Is the role that ship plays supposed to be a 3rd Rate or a 2nd Rate? You said the ship was a 74, when the model has 94 guns.
If it's a 74 we want, then a repainted Superbe would be ideal. If not, I guess we could stick with the SotL.
Remember this is a player ship though, so we should use the best models for these and lower detail ones for NPC ships, I'd say.

Still, I'd rather use the Superbe, and you seem to have missed the point: it's NOT more work.
It's copying models and HEX editing, then adding a ships_init entry. Not difficult nor time consuming, and I know exactly what I'm doing.

Anyway, even if you don't want another RN texture of a high-detail ship, I've just realised that Bellona and Superbe can also swap textures with the Victory.
That means all three can share textures in the format 'Victory2.tga' and 'Victory_mast2.tga',
so we can optimise the textures used by these ships by deleting identical ones with different but same-length names.
That's something I'd like to try to do for all of Pgargon's ships, because they use very similar textures.
This also means we can easily make US versions of the other ships by using the existing textures of US_FirstRate.

I don't have that texture in my game; for me, the RN_Surprise is black and yellow. I thought it was the HMS_Surprise that was supposed to end up blue?

That's because I haven't uploaded the texture yet. And the HMS_Surprise always has been blue, anyway.
I just thought it would be nice for variety's sake. Some players might get bored of the same old yellow/black paint scheme.

 

[Seb]

Ok, what do you think about this one? :

 

[Pieter Boelen]

That's the same Sloop that Pgargon updated, right? Works for me!

Is the role that ship plays supposed to be a 3rd Rate or a 2nd Rate? You said the ship was a 74, when the model has 94 guns.
If it's a 74 we want, then a repainted Superbe would be ideal. If not, I guess we could stick with the SotL.
Remember this is a player ship though, so we should use the best models for these and lower detail ones for NPC ships, I'd say.

Still, I'd rather use the Superbe, and you seem to have missed the point: it's NOT more work.
It's copying models and HEX editing, then adding a ships_init entry. Not difficult nor time consuming, and I know exactly what I'm doing.

True, that. Not sure about her supposed classification, but indeed 94 guns for a supposed 74 is a bit much. If you can sort out a more accurate Superbe-based one, by all means be my guest.

Anyway, even if you don't want another RN texture of a high-detail ship, I've just realised that Bellona and Superbe can also swap textures with the Victory.
That means all three can share textures in the format 'Victory2.tga' and 'Victory_mast2.tga',
so we can optimise the textures used by these ships by deleting identical ones with different but same-length names.
That's something I'd like to try to do for all of Pgargon's ships, because they use very similar textures.
This also means we can easily make US versions of the other ships by using the existing textures of US_FirstRate.

If you can sort that out as well, it'd be brilliant! Sounds to me like that should probably be done before I do the final ship textures folder clean-up,
which would make it a bit of a priority issue because otherwise I can't continue with that.

That's because I haven't uploaded the texture yet. And the HMS_Surprise always has been blue, anyway.
I just thought it would be nice for variety's sake. Some players might get bored of the same old yellow/black paint scheme.

Ah, that explains a lot. Maybe we can then NOT use the RN_Surprise anywhere, but use the HMS Unicorn in her place?
That actually IS a 36 gun ship and would save us having to put another Surprise-based ship into the game.

 

[Seb]

That's the same Sloop that Pgargon updated, right? Works for me!

I will dl Pgargon's one to see if there are major differences between the textures, and i'll keep this color scheme

As I'm on it, i'm also working on a french royal colour scheme for earlier periods

 

[Pieter Boelen]

If you ARE going to be doing some texture-work again, there are a few other things that could use some attention. If you're interested...
One thing I would like is the NL_Neptunus to have her texture re-worked to match better with the other Dutch ones
and then some substantial work on all Portuguese and Spanish ships to get a bit of a more consistent look between them.

 

[Seb]

I've been following what's going around about the ship cleanup, I'll see what I can do on my free time, what does the Neptunus looks like already?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Thanks a lot! This is the Neptunus with the colour scheme that closely approximates the one we've currently got for the Dutch one:

My idea would be to make the hull brown wood instead of gray/black with a green stern like the other Dutch ships.
Some additional gold would be welcome too, but anything that makes her look not-so-black would be good.
This file contains the PotC versions of the Neptunus. #3 is the one currently used for Holland.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Short Jack Gold, please see this file for your approval on ship use: http://www.pyratesahoy.com/build/b14_b2_wip/Hornblower.7z
We'll probably replace RN_Surprise for the HMS Lydia with the HMS_Unicorn, which should match fairly well with her size according to the books.
Please let me know what you think! I don't want to override any of your original intentions, I just want to make your storyline better!

 

[Armada]

True, that. Not sure about her supposed classification, but indeed 94 guns for a supposed 74 is a bit much. If you can sort out a more accurate Superbe-based one, by all means be my guest.

How's this for a quick HEX-edit, using Bellona's texture and a couple of other changes:



I still need to sort out the masts and yards, but that won't take long.

If you can sort that out as well, it'd be brilliant! Sounds to me like that should probably be done before I do the final ship textures folder clean-up,
which would make it a bit of a priority issue because otherwise I can't continue with that.

OK, I'll try to get that going ASAP. I just need to identify those ships with equal-length names, and then sort out which textures to share and which to drop.

Ah, that explains a lot. Maybe we can then NOT use the RN_Surprise anywhere, but use the HMS Unicorn in her place?
That actually IS a 36 gun ship and would save us having to put another Surprise-based ship into the game.

Hmm, I'm not sure the Unicorn would work to be honest. She was launched in 1750, and doesn't have a very RN-style texture from the images Pgargon posted.
I could be wrong though, and she might fit in pretty well if we give her a proper texture. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

How's this for a quick HEX-edit, using Bellona's texture and a couple of other changes:
[attachment=7787:RN_Superbe.jpg]
I still need to sort out the masts and yards, but that won't take long.

Not bad; not bad at all!

Hmm, I'm not sure the Unicorn would work to be honest. She was launched in 1750, and doesn't have a very RN-style texture from the images Pgargon posted.
I could be wrong though, and she might fit in pretty well if we give her a proper texture. We'll have to wait and see.

Maybe her texture might need some adjustment to match more with the other RN paint schemes, but I'd prefer that over adding another ship model for the Lydia while the Lydia doesn't get much use.
Yet, of course. If Short Jack Gold or anyone ever gets to expanding the Hornblower story further, the Lydia IS going to be pretty important.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

It seems the Battleship1 "Volcano" is a left-over from the Standard storyline; can we come up with a better name for a large French ship?

 

[Armada]

It seems the Battleship1 "Volcano" is a left-over from the Standard storyline; can we come up with a better name for a large French ship?

How about Téméraire? That's an easily recognisable French-sounding name. It's also the class type of Le Superbe.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

If you're suggesting we use Le Superbe for the Volcano, shouldn't we call her that? If not... nice name!