Bug GOF Question Regarding Enemy Reloading Times

[Hairbeard]

Using current GOF build. Question: Should there be any reloading time at all between enemy cannon salvos? I ask because, when I encounter enemy ships, I often find that the enemy ship can fire cannon continuously - no stopping at all. Each cannon simply fires repeatedly. This makes naval battles incredibly frustrating/boring since even the weakest ship can sink me using what amounts to full auto firing. I have tried multiple mod option settings, but this seems to be a persistent problem. Is this perhaps a common bug, and, if so, is there a simple fix? Otherwise, I have been impressed with the GOF mod.

 

[Post Captain]

Some vessels with experienced crews and light guns (all guns reload too quickly) can reach absurdly high rates of fire. This could be the cause of the problem.

 

[modernknight1]

I noticed this too. I know Luke and I fixed that for RTBL. He did change the numbers again a bunch before the release of 1.2. I'll ask him what he changed and take a look myself to see if I can see why that's happening again.

MK

 

[Hairbeard]

Note that this seems to be independent of the GOF/COAS cannon reloading rate setting. When reset to the far slower COAS setting, the game will still produce ships capable of truly continuous cannon fire. I can't be sure that this affects higher level ships, as I am rank 5 and sailing a level 6 ship. I can confirm that most ships thus far (5s, 6s, 7s) are capable of this - though not always, of course.

A small observation: I have encountered several aggressive pirates who entered battle without any gunpowder (no shots fired; confirmed by boarding). I doubt this is related to the above issue, as I could certainly see light merchant ships going to sea unarmed, especially if escorted. Funny to see a pacifist pirate, thought.

 

[modernknight1]

Keep in mind this is from a test version and RTBL is disabled. Editing the cannons_init file could provide the results you want. I don't have time to play with this right now. MK

else // = If RTBL IS enabled
{

//RTBL
rCannon.DamageMultiply = 1.0;
}
rCannon.hp = 40.0;
InitBaseCannons_CalcSpeedV0(&rCannon,400.0);

makeref(rCannon,Cannon[CANNON_TYPE_CULVERINE_LBS8]);
rCannon.type = CANNON_NAME_CULVERINE;
rCannon.name = "caliber8";
rCannon.picture = "cannons2";
rCannon.Sound = "cannon_fire";
rCannon.caliber = 8;
if(!Realistic_Reloading) // = If Realistic Reloading is NOT enabled
{
rCannon.ReloadTime = 20;

}
else // = If Realistic_Reloading IS enabled
{

rCannon.ReloadTime = 7.2;
}
rCannon.Cost = 350;
rCannon.Weight = 12;
rCannon.FireAngMax = 0.60;
rCannon.FireAngMin = -0.35;
rCannon.TimeSpeedMultiply = 1.0;
rCannon.BigBall = 0;
rCannon.SizeMultiply = 0.4;
rCannon.HeightMultiply = 1.0;
if(!RTBL) // = If RTBL is NOT enabled
{
rCannon.DamageMultiply = 2.5;

 

[Hairbeard]

The cannons_init doesn't really seem to be the culprit, though I don't really have enough expertise in this area to say this for sure. I'm a professor, not a competent modder. I looked over the numbers, and nothing seemed out of the ordinary. If a level 6 ship using RTBL fires continuously and w/o RTBL fires with a pause of between 5-8 seconds (when it should take at least 20 for even a highly skilled crew with perks), then it seems there must be some other problem unrelated to the timing for specific cannon. I'd be interested to hear if any other players have encountered this problem, as I am realizing this odd bug makes the game unplayable (since damage per second calculations suddenly become quite literal).

 

[Post Captain]

It may be worth pointing out that historically, the bets gun crews could only fire a maximum of three broadsides every five minutes. That could be a new option in later releases, along with slightly increased damage as well. (I think some calibers were pulled out of use in the last release. Would it also be possible to integrate carronades? I know they've done so for PoTC.)

 

[Hairbeard]

Adding carronades would be fascinating, although I would assume that such an addition would require a reworking of the cannon placement system, as carronades would not be placed in the same physical space as traditional cannon.

Ultimately, the timing of the broadsides only matters insofar as it is consistent with other factors (wind, turn rate, etc.) The turning speed of game ships is, on the whole, far, far quicker than reality would permit, thus the fire rate should be consistent with all other factors modified for playability (hence, faster).

The bug that is bothering me, though, isn't one of timing specifically. For instance, I did a clean install, started a new character, and immediately went to sea and encountered the lowest level of pirate. The pirate's ship managed a virtually continuous rate of fire, by which I mean that the cannon bank simply did not cease firing. I, however, fired a salvo and waited a substantial time for the reloading to be completed. In other words, in the time it took me to reload, the pirate had managed tens of salvos - which, of course, destroyed my ship before I could fire again. Clearly, this has nothing to do with training, perks, etc., as the first ship I encounter shouldn't be that capable.

I am playing on Impossible, though I can't imagine that mattering. I am also using a reasonably high-end system running Windows 7 x64, if there have been OS or processor incompatibilities that might be the culprit of this bug.

Is there a way to disable only the modification governing combat mechanics? I have been jonesing to play this game again (well, this game done properly, which is what the GOF mod does), so some workaround will be necessary. Barring that, is there an earlier GOF that might not include combat mechanics modifications? At least that way I could narrow in on the potential cause.

 

[Post Captain]

Adding carronades would be fascinating, although I would assume that such an addition would require a reworking of the cannon placement system, as carronades would not be placed in the same physical space as traditional cannon.

Actually, in vessels that were armed exclusively with carronades, which were somewhat common, there wasn't a scrap of difference between the placement of carronades and the placement of long guns. USS Essex (after a certain date), the real HMS Surprise, Prince de Neufchatel, and Niagara are perfect examples.

 

[modernknight1]

I am playing on Impossible, though I can't imagine that mattering.



Barring that, is there an earlier GOF that might not include combat mechanics modifications? At least that way I could narrow in on the potential cause.

It does matter actually. The numbers are all very unrealistically skewed for the higher difficulty settings. I will also say that the rates are much faster for the lower sized guns at close range. I recommend Corsair difficulty level. Still very challenging, but I believe much more accurately balanced.

There is not another version of GOF where we changed the combat mechanics. I will say that the original GOF 1.0 has Luke159's original RTBL numbers applied, so the battles last longer. He decided to change that this last go round.

May I ask what your discipline is academically? Do I know you? There are actually a lot of professionals and academics that lurk around here. I am always tickled when I am contacted by a colleague. PA is far from a KIDDIE game site - although we still have plenty of them around as well (usually hanging around the Flying Dutchmen and POTC Queen Anne's Revenge type topics). All we can do hope to mold them a little and push them into the light of historical interest.

MK

 

[Hairbeard]

I tried Corsair difficulty, but the problem persists. Cannon simply fire continuously. The difficulty might be a factor; I tested a character on Sailor difficulty and counted four or five seconds between salvos. Even this was near-continuous, however, as the cannon were not firing in unison. As I am unable to reload at even a tenth or eighth of the speed (against a comparable ship), I wonder if a problem lies elsewhere. I would like to try altering the progression lists attached to difficulty - could someone suggest which init file(s) contain difficulty references?

I'm not surprised that these forums attract professionals and academics, as the casual gamer tends not to be overly concerned with history, narrative,etc. (Unless we are talking about, say, Star Wars sharecropper novels - I have students who would happily explain the historical development of the blaster, citing novels like a pro.) I doubt you'd know me unless you taught at a few specific schools in either Arkansas or Kentucky. I'm currently finishing my Ph.D., so I'm not exactly widely published yet (or ever, likely). My degree is in Literature, specializing in Postmodern lit and Science Fiction - which hardly explains my interest in the age of sail, I suppose. Well, maybe it does: SF's iconography is drawn partially from other literary genres, so everything from the Western to the Naval Voyage is reflected. Maybe I just read too much James Clavell as a kid. I assume your degree is in History?

 

[modernknight1]

Didn't say it before, but Welcome Aboard Hairbeard

I feel your pain. I have never asked to delve into the source code, but think it might be time. I'll have a lot of extra time on my hands soon. I do believe I could actually fix this segment. I will say that once you progress to a much higher level, your rates of fire are far improved and it seems like the enemy rates consistently degrade as the engine looks at your abilities against the opposing NPC captain's draw of data for each engagement. If you look at some of my vids you will see that their rates of fire are not nearly as sustained as you complain about at higher levels.

I only know a few Razorbacks and they are Military folks. Love Kentucky though. Spent a lot of time there a few years back.

You are correct. My MA is in History. I thought about doing the Ph.D and even started throwing a lot of reference together. My problems were time and a desire by my vocation to get a Ph.D in simulations. When I was pursuing my masters, only a couple of the Profs actually really comprehended and appreciated my thesis, the material and era. With the exception of Elizabethan England, the early to mid 17th century is really neglected. I ended up in several arguments with some pretty stupid profs. The only way I would pursue a Ph.D was if I had a lot of non-conflicted time and the reviewers knew as much about the subject as I. Not to be arrogant, but that's not likely. I have worked with a lot of doctors in the military and academia over the years and came to the conclusion a long time ago that just because they have a sheepskin doesn't necessarily mean that they are either intelligent or have any sense. Just look at the way our Gov't runs for a sense of that uber intelligence. Most department heads are Ph.Ds or advised by so called expert HQE's with Ph.Ds. I wouldn't trust most of those folks to change a tire or even remember the basic milestones and dates of our own American history. With a few exceptions they seem to be smart only in one area and often only booksmart - not in the discipline's actual true application.

Literature is an admirable discipline that actually requires deep intelligence and understanding - Probably why its on the decline these days. I'm certain you are a minority. I loved Clavell. I still have a huge soft spot for Shogun. It was that type of literature that originally inspired my interest in history and indeed inspires me to write historical short stories now.

MK

 

[Symban]

Hi I would like to make an input based on my encounter I recently had.
It was against a 6th Grade ship with 4lbs cannons which reloads very fast. Captain had 50 cannon skill (excellent spyglass)
I first thought it was due to small caliber cannons, but then noticed the irregularity of firepatern:
Normal ships fire when all the cannons on the bank are reloaded, not until then. When they fire they fire all at same time.
However this ship's cannons were firing one after another, and by the time last one fired first few would already get loaded and fire again.
This results in nonstop barrage.
I am not sure whether the reload time of a bank is same for 1 cannon on that bank (rest removed/destroyed) and for many cannons (lets say 10-20).
I recall it being faster with less cannons which would mean my cannons on the head of the bank wait for the ones in the end to fire. If this is correct then the problem would be that enemies with non-stop barrage has a bug enables them to fire loaded cannons without waiting for the rest of the cannons on the bank to be reloaded.
Hope helps.

 

[Luke159]

Hi all, its been a while since i even looked at any code in COAS, anyway what rank are you experiencing reduced reload times?

The reloading times was reduced because people was saying how long it took for the guns to load again, you have to take into account that loading times are different for each calibure. For example the 4Ibs cannons will load much quicker then the 32Ibs cannons. You will find that mostly the small ships will have fast reload times while the large ships will have a lower reload time (in less they have low calibure guns mounted) But on a normal game the large ships will have heavy guns mounted so they will take much longer to reload between shots. Your rank, skills, crew skills and officers skills aswell as perks will all help reduce the loading times so that could be why you have been experiencing faster than normal reload times. Personally i like the long loading times and didn't want to lower them but it was done to give the fans of GOF a more action packed naval battle.

The good news is though realistic loading times is been changed, the COAS default will remain as it is with fast reloading times, but realistic loading times will be much longer. This will obviously become faster as you rank up ad your skills improve aswell as that of your officers and crew, and even more if you have the correct perks in place. But the testing will be done with all perks and max rank reached to make sure that the reloading times still remain acceptable. Then testing will be done in a new game with no perks etc to make sure that the reloading times are not to long, i expect to have this fix out in a few day's time.

Update:
Ok in my own testing the ships all fire at a slow rate, i don't understand why you are experiencing short loading times in less you are speeding up the game time?

Or its a bug that comes in later in the game, i have maxed out my character and given every single perk you can have with maxed out officers and crew that can't become any more experienced. I will rewrite the reloading times for realistic and COAS default well reverse them because the realistic reloading times should take longer than the COAS default. I have only tried with realistic reloading times so far and that works fine, but as i say its not like i have played for several months to a year its still the first game month so the bug might not be activated yet as the AI crew will not be as experienced as they will later in the game. So i will start skipping game day's to try and recreate the bug in less someone has a savegame of this bug in action that i can put in to test it out with?

 

[modernknight1]

Hi Luke, It's nice to see you back!

He's talking about the bad guy's reloading times, not the Player's.

MK

 

[Luke159]

Hey MK, its been a long time. Looks like its gone very quiet around here compared to the last time i was on.

In all my testing so far i haven't had any problems with the AI reloading to fast, the only problem i have had is not been able to board a Spanish ship even though i was within boarding distance. In fact i got as close to them and still i couldn't board them, the only thing i can think of is maybe the AI spinning around which is something that is annoying and makes the naval battles feel less realistic. If i kew how to fix that then i would get that done asap, the reloading times though seem fine from my point of view (apart from realisic and COAS default reloading times been the wrong way around). Thats now fixed though, and is almost ready for release. All i can think of is maybe the AI having increased multiplyers to make them harder, i know i did see something like that in the past maybe in the cannon.c file or in oneof the files in sea_ai folder. I will check them all out when i get a chance tomorrow and see what i can find.