WIP Flying Dutchman Project: Cursed & Uncursed

[Pieter Boelen]

You recommend no 3D detailing around the gunports then at all? Seems a bit of a shame to lose that, especially since we have it already.
But I've got to admit the Russian "texture only" solution does look quite effective.
And you know me, I'll never object to a simple solution if that would suffice!

I personally a not really fussed over accuracy compared to plans/the films; as long as it looks good.
But I know you guys DO care and I most certainly don't object to having the model as accurate as possible.

What kind of 3D detailing would you imagine applying to her sides that aren't the gunport openings?
Just some more seaweed? Or a ladder of sorts?

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Interesting . . . I stumbled upon bonjourmonami's deviantart by mistake and found some interesting things.

Anyway, here's my notes on details:

Cursed Flying Dutchman

Spoiler: Figurehead

The figurehead. The Russian figurehead is definitely better. I think it's good as is, I just need to retexture it. Perhaps just switch what side it's on?

Spoiler: Deck1

Deck Layout. From what I can tell, the Russian layout is accurate save for a few things. Every image of the Dutchman I've seen plus the official plans show that there are FOUR sets of stairs leading down from the upper deck. Not just two like the Russian version has. Our model is actually accurate there.

Spoiler: Deck2

More Deck Layout. Our Dutchman is missing doors to the captain's cabin. But the Russian model does have them. The Russian model also has the right wheel. However, both models lack the belfry sitting in front of the capstan. The stair cases are also accurate on the Russian version.

Spoiler: Stern1

Stern details. Neither model has these and I know they would be difficult. I suggest maybe just making simple bumps that I can throw the textures over?

Spoiler: Gun ports

Cannon ports. I personally like the idea of a 3D port like our model has. It would just make the gun ports pop a little more.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Cursed Flying Dutchman

Spoiler: Cabin

Cabin details. Again, if simple bumps were made, I could just fake the rest with textures. I don't think these need to be modelled as they appear.

Spoiler: Hull

Hull framework. I think we need 3D framework around the hull, as the Russians flat appearance looks a bit lacking. That's why I support 3D cannon ports.

Spoiler: Stern2

Upper stern details. Also difficult to model. Russian model lacks any modeling detail whatsoever (come to think of it, the Russian model is pretty flat in many areas). Idk if the stern detail can be improved or not, but if so, I will do what I can with textures. I suspect a lot of visual cheats can be done here. There are two doors that open to the captain's cabin. The Russian model has these. Don't forget the window is two levels high, not one.

Spoiler: Reference

That's all I can think of. Here is more reference if needed.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Uncursed Flying Dutchman

Spoiler: Bow

Bow detail. No skeleton. "Teeth" are far less prominent.

Spoiler: Gun ports

Cannon ports. Gun ports are more prominent 3 dimensionally. Shaped as lions, fish, and men. All gold. Upper ports have changed shape completely (idk if that's possible to do) and become circular with gold trim.

Spoiler: Stern

Stern detail. Textures can do most of this. Russian model pretty much already has uncursed stern.

Spoiler: Gold trim

Additional reference and gold trim. The uncursed Dutchman is covered in gold. Take note of the gold trim on ship which is just about everywhere. Design UV maps so I can do this with textures. Looks like some golden design near the bottom of the bow. The "teeth" have golden accents all around them.From bow to stern, there is a lot of gold.

That's all I can think of for now. I think I'll tweak the color of the uncursed sails a bit, but the texture for both looks fine to me.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

That's sind good research, that is!

Are you saying the Russian version colour is OK for both versions?
So cursed wouldn't be greener than uncursed?

I think it is near impossible to tell the correct colours from the films.
Those movies are massively colour enhanced and don't look natural at all.
The concept art and behind the scenes photos seem more reliable there.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

That's sind good research, that is!

Are you saying the Russian version colour is OK for both versions?
So cursed wouldn't be greener than uncursed?

I think it is near impossible to tell the correct colours from the films.
Those movies are massively colour enhanced and don't look natural at all.
The concept art and behind the scenes photos seem more reliable there.

Leave the colors to me. I'll figure it out. I'm mainly leaning towards the behind the scenes appearance of the vessel, but I wanna make it looks kinda like the movie at the same time. Basically, the cursed version looks like a ship that's been sitting at the bottom of the sea for a long while. I wanna stay true to that theme. But the cursed version will be significantly less green than she is now. Pretty much the only green is coming from the clumps of seaweed hanging off the ship.

The uncursed version will not be green at all. I plan on no green whatsoever. I'm thinking a dark wood color with all the golden bits that adorn her.

I'll nail it. I always do.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Leave the colors to me. I'll figure it out.
[...]
I'll nail it. I always do.

Haha; very true!
What you describe sounds pretty perfect to me.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Haha; very true!
What you describe sounds pretty perfect to me.

You and I share the same vision for the most part I think.

 

[Armada]

You recommend no 3D detailing around the gunports then at all? Seems a bit of a shame to lose that, especially since we have it already.

All I'm saying is it would be much easier to make the gunport heads look right as textures than 3D models. Currently, the PA! version only has one head model repeated across all the main gunports, so it lacks variety and cannot be easily changed to resemble the lion heads on the uncursed Dutchman.

If someone wants to make some better head ornaments, that's fine by me; but I won't be doing that myself.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

All I'm saying is it would be much easier to make the gunport heads look right as textures than 3D models.

Very true.

Currently, the PA! version only has one head model repeated across all the main gunports, so it lacks variety and cannot be easily changed to resemble the lion heads on the uncursed Dutchman.

My first thought was 3D heads on the Cursed and textured ones on the Uncursed.
Anyway, I don't mind either way. Whatever works and whatever someone actually wants to do.

Worst case scenario: Two retextures of the Russian version may be good enough.
Everything else is "bonus". In fact, ANY improvement is a bonus.

If someone wants to make some better head ornaments, that's fine by me; but I won't be doing that myself.

Fair enough, of course.

 

[Robert Nutter]

Sorry, just saw this. I'll have a go at doing some heads with variety for the gunports in mudbox and see how far I get. In the meantime, I'd say leave that specific part of it with me until i can give a 100% answer on whether I can do it justice.

As for the stern deco, as said in the PM, should be easy enough splitting that off so I'll have a go later.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Sorry, just saw this. I'll have a go at doing some heads with variety for the gunports in mudbox and see how far I get. In the meantime, I'd say leave that specific part of it with me until i can give a 100% answer on whether I can do it justice.

As for the stern deco, as said in the PM, should be easy enough so I'll have a go later.

Might I suggest first getting "exporting to GM" to work for you? Choose whatever project is simplest for you to do that on.
But if we cannot get your awesome work in the game, then this won't get very far....

 

[Robert Nutter]

I can export to GM fine I thought, it's just locators which are giving me the headache with Dundas right now. Chances are I'll end up using c4d to do the sculpting anyway so I can just use the same workflow, no?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I can export to GM fine, it's just locators which are giving me the headache with Dundas right now.

Ah, that's good. I wasn't sure if that part was working right for you yet.
Anyway, I would still suggest you try to successfully get a ship working OK in the game.
At least then you know what is required for that.

Or do you mean export the TEHO model to GM?

The TEHO model is already GM. Converting that to OBJ and getting her into Maya may be required at some point though.
But I suppose that is a future step.

 

[Robert Nutter]

Of course, and I agree; and sorry for editing my post but I realized my error after seeing that the TEHO model is already GM!

I'm guessing GM's work fine for me, as she does work in the game; it's just the camera/locators etc are all broken. But as a whole, the format works so I'm confident as far as assembling the model itself.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Very true.


My first thought was 3D heads on the Cursed and textured ones on the Uncursed.

I was actually thinking the opposite would look better. Textures for the cursed, and 3d for the uncursed. The cursed gun ports are much flatter in comparisons to the golden ones on the uncursed that pop out.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

As for the stern deco, as said in the PM, should be easy enough splitting that off so I'll have a go later.

Thank you, by the way, for helping us.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

3D details for the cursed gunports already exist; but not for the uncursed ones.
That is why I suggested using what we have and skipping what we don't.
More a practical suggestion than anything else.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Whatever we end up with, I'll do my best.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I think a start could be made re texturing that Russian model.
Keep the gunports and stern decoration as their own layers.

Any additional 3D details would be a bonus, I reckon.
But if you can disable those layers on the textures later, then at least you're prepared for if it happens.

That's just my suggestion though....