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Planned Feature Encourage Play for Evil Characters

Black/white is perhaps more realistic. The French Admiralty wouldn't say "Captain Nelson sunk one of our ships today. Instruct all our captains to look a little bit harder for him." But they might one day say "This Captain Nelson has sunk a lot of our ships. Instruct all our captains that hunting him down is a major priority as of today."
If you base the logic on orders, then yes indeed. But it could also be that for every ship you sink (eg. every point you drop), some more people talk about it and rumours spread.

The most realistic may be a slow, gradual increase, THEN a huge step and a gradual increase again after that.
That isn't quite as simple and straightforward though

If I'd have to choose myself, I like the gradual one because then every lower number has some measure of meaning in actual gameplay, however small.

And we're back to historical figures who made a name for themselves by sinking a lot of ships and are still famous today. Fame of that sort should stick. It doesn't need to be nation-dependent. What is nation-dependent is what the nations do based on that fame. Friendly nations love you, enemy nations hate you, neutral nations probably don't care about the military implications but have still heard of you. So friendly nations might do something nice e.g. access to governors' nieces, hostile nations do something nasty e.g. being more likely to recognise you, and neutral nations don't do anything so it doesn't matter.
The part of that fame that sticks is already measured (indirectly) in wealth.

Would it not make sense to have BOTH mechanisms in place, working together in some way?
 
If you base the logic on orders, then yes indeed. But it could also be that for every ship you sink (eg. every point you drop), some more people talk about it and rumours spread.
And that's accounted for by the fact that each ship you sink changes your nation relations. That's the measure of your fame with specific nations.

If I'd have to choose myself, I like the gradual one because then every lower number has some measure of meaning in actual gameplay, however small.
So what you want is something which goes up gradually with each ship you sink, and is only relevant to specific nations?

The part of that fame that sticks is already measured (indirectly) in wealth.
Which is fine for merchants. Naval officers don't become famous for getting rich (unless they're caught doing it in an illegal manner :rpirate), they become famous for sinking enemy ships. Nelson didn't become famous for being rich, he became famous (and gained titles) for his military exploits.

By the way, you can see how far this topic has drifted by the way neither of us has mentioned advantages for evil characters for some time. Maybe some of this should be moved to its own thread. xD
 
And that's accounted for by the fact that each ship you sink changes your nation relations. That's the measure of your fame with specific nations.
My point exactly. Which is why I am suggesting having that change in nation relations also affect your "recognition chance" with characters and/or ships of that nation.

So what you want is something which goes up gradually with each ship you sink, and is only relevant to specific nations?
That is what I was pondering, yes. That is why I was thinking of something like this:
Code:
float GetDetectionChance(int iNation)
{
  float chance = GetRMRelation(GetMainCharacter(), iNation)/REL_MIN;
  if (chance < 0.0) chance = 0.0;
  return chance;
}
But to be rewritten so it works better in combination of non-hostility, plus the regular fame checks.

Which is fine for merchants. Naval officers don't become famous for getting rich (unless they're caught doing it in an illegal manner :rpirate), they become famous for sinking enemy ships. Nelson didn't become famous for being rich, he became famous (and gained titles) for his military exploits.
Actually, isn't it currently the exact opposite?
Fine for Privateers and Pirates, since they can use Divide the Plunder. Doubly for Privateers, because they get land too. Naval Officers get their Salary and eventually land as well.
Merchants have the biggest disadvantage because they get ONLY their salary and have no other source of Wealth.
Which begs the question: How SHOULD merchants get Personal Wealth?

Naval officers don't become famous for getting rich (unless they're caught doing it in an illegal manner :rpirate), they become famous for sinking enemy ships. Nelson didn't become famous for being rich, he became famous (and gained titles) for his military exploits.
Indeed Naval Officers don't get Personal Wealth quickly. Not until they become a Commodore.
So definitely having a "ships sunk" addition to fame for Naval Officers only does make sense to me. :onya

By the way, you can see how far this topic has drifted by the way neither of us has mentioned advantages for evil characters for some time. Maybe some of this should be moved to its own thread. xD
Indeed it has MASSIVELY drifted off-topic. But it is a very interesting discussion nonetheless and I'm glad to see we're getting some good thoughts on it.
Splitting it all into their separate topics may be more trouble than it's worth.

How about simply merging this thread with Notice - The Way Forward | PiratesAhoy! and starting a brand new one on actual advantages for evil characters?
Because indeed we DO need that discussed too, otherwise a lot of the other ideas here don't make all that much sense.

And for sure, once our ideas managed to converge to something that makes sense, I'll try to distill it down to a clearer to-do list.
All the above is probably a bit "much" for anyone to wade through.... :wp
 
Meanwhile, on the other front, the version of "Enc_Walker.c" which I posted earlier does not work. Partly because of a few typos and partly because I'd used "PChar.reputation" directly, which didn't seem to produce a useful result. So after fixing the typos, I did a bit more digging and found function 'GetCharacterReputation'. So the version attached here is tested and works.
Included in my game now. Definitely an improvement, I reckon! :cheers

Also added to my game. I added your initials to the changes too. :)

If you want to use your modifications to the TradeCheck function, you should probably have a think about this:
Another weird thing could arise from this though: If he doesn't like you "today", you can close the dialog, then try again without even leaving the store.
That relates to to the storing/not storing of the "FalseFlagDetect" attribute.
 
At the moment it isn't clear to me yet what changes on this should and should not make their way into Beta 4.
@Grey Roger, do you think you could finalise your "quick fixes" for it within a few days?

If not, then the Beta 4 public release will have the TradeCheck function in its current Beta 3.4 state.
Then once that is released, I can start really tweaking stuff the way I've been wanting to do for a while.
 
OK, here it is with the condition on "merch.FalseFlagDetect" removed. The trader greets you by name on all but the very first dialog anyway, so evidently he recognises you, so fair enough, he should remember if he traded with you before. Tough luck, evil characters - if you're caught out once, you're stuffed, perhaps you should have played as a good character after all. :p

Meanwhile, this is added to the reputation checks at the end:
Code:
     // If you less than Neutral to their nation, but you are a Horror of the High Seas
     if(rel <  REL_NEUTRAL  && rep <= TRADEREP_MIN  )   return true;
If your relation to his nation is NEUTRAL (actually friendly) or better then you can trade regardless of reputation. Anything less and it does depend on your reputation, so this ought to allow Blackbeard to scare the living daylights out of traders even without a powerful fleet. He's not threatening the town, he's threatening the trader personally!
 

Attachments

  • CharacterUtilite.c
    142.9 KB · Views: 181
Cheers! :cheers

OK, here it is with the condition on "merch.FalseFlagDetect" removed. The trader greets you by name on all but the very first dialog anyway, so evidently he recognises you, so fair enough, he should remember if he traded with you before. Tough luck, evil characters - if you're caught out once, you're stuffed, perhaps you should have played as a good character after all. :p
When you actually become friendly, his "memory" should be reset.

In any case, this is a temporary measure. Hopefully for Beta 5 we'll have a more comprehensive system in place where "playing as evil" has proper advantages too.

If your relation to his nation is NEUTRAL (actually friendly) or better then you can trade regardless of reputation. Anything less and it does depend on your reputation, so this ought to allow Blackbeard to scare the living daylights out of traders even without a powerful fleet. He's not threatening the town, he's threatening the trader personally!
Sounds good! :onya
 
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