Released Corvette V.2

[Pieter Boelen]

I think I've got all corvette-based ships covered now, including the PO_FastNavy. I did exclude the Merchantman versions, since I'm not entirely sure what is going to happen with those.
Weren't you still working on improving the models for those two, Armada?

Definitely a massive improvement over the original models, though we definitely need to drop some of them.
There really is too many and the man-with-sword figurehead doesn't work very well with the new model.

Corvette1: Uses griffin figurehead with nice texture = can keep
Corvette2: Uses man-with-sword figurehead with generic texture = don't care
Corvette3: Uses panther figurehead with weird texture = can put the figurehead on corvette2 and lose this
Corvette4_44: Uses griffin figurehead (AGAIN) with a vaguely US colour scheme; use as US ship for real or drop this
Corvette5: Uses panther figurehead (AGAIN) and has beautiful detailing; keep this one for sure! Though we could decide to replace the corvette2 with this
Corvette5_44: Uses panther figurehead (THIRD TIME) and has a vaguely RN colour scheme; however, RN_Light_Frigate also uses the corvette hull (Armada's updated version), so drop this
CorvFrig1: Uses man-with-sword figurehead with generic texture weird texture. The textured gun-ports are very obvious. Drop this
CorvFrig2_50: Uses griffin figurehead (THIRD TIME) with a nice texture. Keep this! But can we find another figurehead by any chance?
CrimsonBlood: Uses griffin figurehead (FOURTH TIME), but the texture needs some fixing. Maybe remove the figurehead altogether? Quest use, so keep this.
CursedCorvette: Uses the additional detail from the old FR_Corvette but nothing else. Can keep for quest potential.
FR_Corvette: Uses man-with-sword figurehead (AGAIN) with a nice texture. Keep this, but either fix the appearance of the figurehead or put another one in its place.
NL_Merchantman/FastMerchantman: Use panther figureheads. Not sure what to do yet.
PO_FastNavy: NO figurehead with rather bright texture. Keep for quest purposes, though I suppose we could put one of the other textures to use here.
RN_Light_Frigate: Uses panther figurehead (FOURTH TIME) with good texture. Keep this for sure.

Anyone else any thoughts on this?

 

[Armada]

Thanks for pointing out the texture problems. I knew there would be some changes needed, but never got round to implementing them.
The old bow gunports need removing on some textures, as you said, and some textures also need the bow sorting out.
I think the texturing method for these ships has always been weird, so it's no wonder there's some cleaning up to do.
I should also add that I made the new Corvette hull with RN_Light_Frigate in mind, which is why that one fits really well.
That texture should be used as a 'template' for navy textures designed to use stripes, so I'll certainly modify it for the French version - and create a US version, too?

Also, how come the FR_Corvette has apparently been remodelled by somebody at some point, but is not Armada's completely new version?

Obviously, the CursedCorvette needs some additional texture work to work fully with the new model, so I made her use the modified FR_Corvette files instead.
See attached for the result. The added parts don't have the seaweed-y look. Does anyone object to that?

The model you pointed out for FR_Corvette seems to be the predecessor of the new hull, which Craiggo found in a Russian mod.
I thought it was used for all Corvettes in the previous release, wasn't it? Or maybe it was part of some updates that Hylie and I worked on while you were at sea.

As for the CursedCorvette, why not use the new hull anyway? I doesn't have any more seaweed-less parts than the Russian model, does it?
Besides, I can make the necessary texture changes to add the seaweed effects if you want. I was planning to use some of the new guns on the Dutchman model too, so I'd need to modify their texture anyway.

Some of the corvettes have as figurehead a man holding a sword over his shoulder. This does not work well with the new corvette model, because the shoulders of the man end up through the bow of the ship.
I thought I had this fixed by adjusting the deck geometry locator a bit, but it's still not right and apparently the TOOL decided that I am no longer able to open any corvette models files,
even though I managed to about an hour ago. Not even the unmodified ones will work, so I'm rather lost on that account.

Edit: The files open again now (WHAT the hell was going on???), but doing what I did before apparently just makes it worse.
Needs some slight attention, I suppose.

Can't you just move the figurehead's actual position in TOOL using 'Edit Scene'?
That doesn't require messing around with locators, and it doesn't even matter if the figurehead gets corrupted, because it's not the hull model.
If not, then we might as well replace that figurehead for something better. Maybe the one used on the Indefatigable? I know that's a separate model for some ships.

I think I've got all corvette-based ships covered now, including the PO_FastNavy. I did exclude the Merchantman versions, since I'm not entirely sure what is going to happen with those.
Weren't you still working on improving the models for those two, Armada?

Definitely a massive improvement over the original models, though we definitely need to drop some of them.
There really is too many and the man-with-sword figurehead doesn't work very well with the new model.

Yes, I will upgrade the Merchantmen soon. I just need to delete the hull cannons and patch up the gunports on the Corvette hull, which shouldn't take long.

I'm glad you like the improvements, anyhow. I'm really pleased with the way it turned out, because it now looks more like a proper frigate-built ship.
The idea is that I can use what I've learned in upgrading this ship to hopefully move on to do the same for other stock ships.
Any suggestions on which ship to upgrade next would be great. I have a few ideas, but I'd rather have a target and stick to it than try lots of different ships at once.

Anyway, I do agree we need to remove (and tweak) some of the Corvette textures, and your current suggestions seem reasonable so far.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Thanks for pointing out the texture problems. I knew there would be some changes needed, but never got round to implementing them.
The old bow gunports need removing on some textures, as you said, and some textures also need the bow sorting out.
I think the texturing method for these ships has always been weird, so it's no wonder there's some cleaning up to do.
I should also add that I made the new Corvette hull with RN_Light_Frigate in mind, which is why that one fits really well.
That texture should be used as a 'template' for navy textures designed to use stripes, so I'll certainly modify it for the French version - and create a US version, too?

Who would be up for the task of sorting out the slight texture mismatches though?
As for a US version, I suppose you could do that, but then why not for the other nations too? Holland has only the NL_Frigate47, while the US already have the US_BattleFrigate, US_HeavyFrigate and US_Lydia when it comes to frigate-type ships.
Anyway, I think to start out with, we should just remove ships and not add anything and then once Beta 2 is released, we can see where we feel there's some ships missing and work on those.
Then at least we're not trying to do so many new things for now...

The model you pointed out for FR_Corvette seems to be the predecessor of the new hull, which Craiggo found in a Russian mod.
I thought it was used for all Corvettes in the previous release, wasn't it? Or maybe it was part of some updates that Hylie and I worked on while you were at sea.

That would explain a lot. The FR_Corvette version wasn't used by any other ships and I only just noticed it by chance. Probably sneaked in as part of Hylie's hard work.

As for the CursedCorvette, why not use the new hull anyway? I doesn't have any more seaweed-less parts than the Russian model, does it?
Besides, I can make the necessary texture changes to add the seaweed effects if you want. I was planning to use some of the new guns on the Dutchman model too, so I'd need to modify their texture anyway.

The new hull uses desk.tga for the deck, while the FR_Corvette-based hull still uses deck.tga, so the new hull doesn't readily work, but the other version does.
Since the cursed corvette is clearly a non-historical ship anyway, if we'd just keep her using the FR_Corvette version of the hull, that would save you or anyone else the trouble of having to redo any texture-work.
She hasn't actually seen any quest use yet, so I don't think the cursed corvette is a ship worth spending a lot of effort on.

Can't you just move the figurehead's actual position in TOOL using 'Edit Scene'?
That doesn't require messing around with locators, and it doesn't even matter if the figurehead gets corrupted, because it's not the hull model.
If not, then we might as well replace that figurehead for something better. Maybe the one used on the Indefatigable? I know that's a separate model for some ships.

Personally, I've never used the 'Edit Scene' option in the TOOL and only ever moved some locators around.
Technically it's only a tiny mismatch, but does look a bit silly when examined closely. On the other hand, really I don't want to spend more time on this than I have to.
I want to get this clean-up done as quickly as possible, because I also then need to do the texture folder clean-up, which is going to be a lot of work still.
And then I'd like to do the same with all location textures. And then try to apply compression to all textures that don't have it yet. That's still a lot of work to get done in the next few weeks.

The idea is that I can use what I've learned in upgrading this ship to hopefully move on to do the same for other stock ships.
Any suggestions on which ship to upgrade next would be great. I have a few ideas, but I'd rather have a target and stick to it than try lots of different ships at once.

As per Seb, the following ships do not have any additional detail added:

I didn't edit the Yachts, as well as the Xebecs, the manowars, the schooners, the schnyavas, the warships, and probably a few nation specific ships...

Alternatively, you could choose a model which is re-used quite a lot, such as the stock game frigate. There's three different stock game frigate hulls though, so that could be quite a lot of work.
If we want to keep the manowars, maybe that could be an idea? They do seem quite under-detailed for their size.

Anyway, I do agree we need to remove (and tweak) some of the Corvette textures, and your current suggestions seem reasonable so far.

I always aim to be reasonable!

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I didn't do anything special to the FR_Corvette. It has been like that as far back as I can remember.


The yachts are decent looking little ships except for their rigging. The schnyavas are not worth bothering with until their main mast is repaired. The Man O Wars are empty looking and need a LOT of work. I almost got started on them..............

 

[Armada]

Who would be up for the task of sorting out the slight texture mismatches though?
As for a US version, I suppose you could do that, but then why not for the other nations too? Holland has only the NL_Frigate47, while the US already have the US_BattleFrigate, US_HeavyFrigate and US_Lydia when it comes to frigate-type ships.
Anyway, I think to start out with, we should just remove ships and not add anything and then once Beta 2 is released, we can see where we feel there's some ships missing and work on those.
Then at least we're not trying to do so many new things for now...

I know those textures well, so I'll sort 'em out.
I'm sure I can give a Dutch texture a go, although I've never done one of those before. So the green stern with brown hull is still preferable fort his kind of ship, right?
For Beta 2, I'd like to replace the Lydia frigates with the new Corvette where appropriate, so making a proper US texture would make sense.

Honestly, I don't see there being a problem with considering the gaps to fill before Beta 2. Nobody said you had to do everything yourself!
I can make extra textures for high-detail ships pretty quickly, since they're mostly very simple textures.
It won't take long to go through the ships in GM Viewer and decide where we think more textures are needed, and any gaping holes in the line-up will show up in the Ship Mod file.
It's easy stuff and only small amounts of extra coding...

The new hull uses desk.tga for the deck, while the FR_Corvette-based hull still uses deck.tga, so the new hull doesn't readily work, but the other version does.
Since the cursed corvette is clearly a non-historical ship anyway, if we'd just keep her using the FR_Corvette version of the hull, that would save you or anyone else the trouble of having to redo any texture-work.
She hasn't actually seen any quest use yet, so I don't think the cursed corvette is a ship worth spending a lot of effort on.

Eh? My new hull still uses deck.tga for the deck! The only difference is desk.tga is used for some of the extra details, like the anchors and capstan.
Why would I go to the trouble of moving around all the deck UVs just to use the other texture...? :wacko:

Anyway, I see your point that the ship is not worth the effort just yet. Do what you think is best.

Personally, I've never used the 'Edit Scene' option in the TOOL and only ever moved some locators around.
Technically it's only a tiny mismatch, but does look a bit silly when examined closely. On the other hand, really I don't want to spend more time on this than I have to.
I want to get this clean-up done as quickly as possible, because I also then need to do the texture folder clean-up, which is going to be a lot of work still.
And then I'd like to do the same with all location textures. And then try to apply compression to all textures that don't have it yet. That's still a lot of work to get done in the next few weeks.

OK then, we can just drop that figurehead from the Corvette hulls and use a different one.

As per Seb, the following ships do not have any additional detail added:

I didn't edit the Yachts, as well as the Xebecs, the manowars, the schooners, the schnyavas, the warships, and probably a few nation specific ships...

Alternatively, you could choose a model which is re-used quite a lot, such as the stock game frigate. There's three different stock game frigate hulls though, so that could be quite a lot of work.
If we want to keep the manowars, maybe that could be an idea? They do seem quite under-detailed for their size.

I'd really prefer not to touch the Frigates for now. After all, Jack Harrison started work on upgrading those a while ago, so I don't want to double up on his work in case he returns one day.
I'll focus on other ships first, and if we eventually decide the Frigates need upgrading and Jack hasn't returned, then I'll take them on.

Anyway, the Manowar models do need some extra detail, that's very true.
She also seems to suffer from what I'm calling "AOP disease"; she has badly scaled cannons and huge, empty decks, similar to some AOP ships.
Also, judging by the fact that you have to use the 'Fly camera' in GM Viewer, which seems to be for large models only, she might actually be far too big compared to, say, the Victory.
If so, I have some scaling work to do as well, which would help to fix the super-massive deck size. Then I can sort out extra details.

However, there are still three hull models for the Manowars, mind you. Perhaps I should focus on a smaller, more common ship first?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I know those textures well, so I'll sort 'em out.
I'm sure I can give a Dutch texture a go, although I've never done one of those before. So the green stern with brown hull is still preferable fort his kind of ship, right?
For Beta 2, I'd like to replace the Lydia frigates with the new Corvette where appropriate, so making a proper US texture would make sense.

Cheers, mate! I'm not requesting a Dutch corvette texture to be made now though.
I was just thinking IF we're going to make new nation ones, we could consider Holland too since the US has got a fair few more as it is.
Hmm... I do quite like the shape of the Lydia and she does look better with the newly added detail. I should also mention that the SotL models are really much better than before.

Honestly, I don't see there being a problem with considering the gaps to fill before Beta 2. Nobody said you had to do everything yourself!
I can make extra textures for high-detail ships pretty quickly, since they're mostly very simple textures.
It won't take long to go through the ships in GM Viewer and decide where we think more textures are needed, and any gaping holes in the line-up will show up in the Ship Mod file.
It's easy stuff and only small amounts of extra coding...

The main thing I suppose I'm concerned with is that I'm more interested in getting all available new content that is already made included in Beta 2 before starting to make anything else.
The main thing I'm thinking of here is the final editions of the film ships and especially also the models Pgargon has released over the past several months.

Eh? My new hull still uses deck.tga for the deck! The only difference is desk.tga is used for some of the extra details, like the anchors and capstan.
Why would I go to the trouble of moving around all the deck UVs just to use the other texture...? :wacko:

Anyway, I see your point that the ship is not worth the effort just yet. Do what you think is best.

Hmm... I might've messed up when I was working on that. I vaguely recall writing de03.tga where it should've been de04.tga; I'll give it another shot and see what it looks like.

I'd really prefer not to touch the Frigates for now. After all, Jack Harrison started work on upgrading those a while ago, so I don't want to double up on his work in case he returns one day.
I'll focus on other ships first, and if we eventually decide the Frigates need upgrading and Jack hasn't returned, then I'll take them on.

Anyway, the Manowar models do need some extra detail, that's very true.
She also seems to suffer from what I'm calling "AOP disease"; she has badly scaled cannons and huge, empty decks, similar to some AOP ships.
Also, judging by the fact that you have to use the 'Fly camera' in GM Viewer, which seems to be for large models only, she might actually be far too big compared to, say, the Victory.
If so, I have some scaling work to do as well, which would help to fix the super-massive deck size. Then I can sort out extra details.

However, there are still three hull models for the Manowars, mind you. Perhaps I should focus on a smaller, more common ship first?

Fair enough; it was just me rambling at random. Feel free to pick whichever you want, of course. Maybe the schooner hull then?

 

[Armada]

Cheers, mate! I'm not requesting a Dutch corvette texture to be made now though.
I was just thinking IF we're going to make new nation ones, we could consider Holland too since the US has got a fair few more as it is.
Hmm... I do quite like the shape of the Lydia and she does look better with the newly added detail. I should also mention that the SotL models are really much better than before.

OK then, I'll fix the textures and nothing more for the moment.
The only thing that annoys me about the Lydia is her bow shape, really. It looks nothing like a frigate bow, to me, even if the rest of the ship has been improved now.
I was just thinking that, with the new and improved Corvette hull due to get similar rigging to the Lydia, we might as well replace the less detailed of the two ships?

The main thing I suppose I'm concerned with is that I'm more interested in getting all available new content that is already made included in Beta 2 before starting to make anything else.
The main thing I'm thinking of here is the final editions of the film ships and especially also the models Pgargon has released over the past several months.

Good point, we really need to focus on those ships. OK, I'll leave the extra textures for now.

Hmm... I might've messed up when I was working on that. I vaguely recall writing de03.tga where it should've been de04.tga; I'll give it another shot and see what it looks like.

Yep, de04.tga looks like the one to use. The de03 texture isn't even cursed-looking.

Fair enough; it was just me rambling at random. Feel free to pick whichever you want, of course. Maybe the schooner hull then?

There WAS sense to your rambling, don't worry. Besides, now that I've found some plans of the stock frigate's REAL counterpart, I might consider upgrading that ship after all...

 

[Pieter Boelen]

OK then, I'll fix the textures and nothing more for the moment.
The only thing that annoys me about the Lydia is her bow shape, really. It looks nothing like a frigate bow, to me, even if the rest of the ship has been improved now.
I was just thinking that, with the new and improved Corvette hull due to get similar rigging to the Lydia, we might as well replace the less detailed of the two ships?

So you're saying that we should have EITHER a Lydia OR a Corvette-based ship for each nation?
So then we could remove the RN_Lydia and FR_Lydia straight away since we've already got the RN_Light_Frigate and the FR_Corvette
and would be left only with the US_Lydia, since we're removing the Lydia4 altogether anyway.
Then it would only be a small step indeed to drop the use of the Lydia-based models altogether. That would mean losing all the effort put into making her look more worthy for the game though.
I suppose we could rename the FR_Lydia to SP_Lydia as per our ramblings on colour schemes, once we've added some more bright yellow to the texture.

Yep, de04.tga looks like the one to use. The de03 texture isn't even cursed-looking.

I'll give it another shot tomorrow and see what it looks like.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

This is just a quick update. This where Daisy Mae was when I quit last night. The jibsails and foremast sails are nearly done and the mizzen mast has been shortened.

 

[Armada]

So you're saying that we should have EITHER a Lydia OR a Corvette-based ship for each nation?

Well I was more saying that we could drop the Lydia frigates altogether, in favour of the Corvettes, since they both have a similar role.
However, I realise that does put the extra work done to the Lydia to waste. Thinking about it though, those ships still don't have an accurate path file, do they?
I don't know, it's just a thought.

This is just a quick update. This where Daisy Mae was when I quit last night. The jibsails and foremast sails are nearly done and the mizzen mast has been shortened.

I'm liking that rigging so far! The mizzen looks better where it is now, too.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I never see a Lydia in game at all and haven't sailed one in well over a year. Back then they had no crew, a bad path where you had to walk into a mast to get to the poop deck, and they messed up the spyglass somehow.

Either make them more common or drop them.

I just noticed uses the same masts as I'm working on for the corvette. Hmmmm...........

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Well I was more saying that we could drop the Lydia frigates altogether, in favour of the Corvettes, since they both have a similar role.
However, I realise that does put the extra work done to the Lydia to waste. Thinking about it though, those ships still don't have an accurate path file, do they?
I don't know, it's just a thought.

Good point; I don't think that's fixed. Unfortunate then, but I suppose losing all of them will clean things up quite properly.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

Good point; I don't think that's fixed. Unfortunate then, but I suppose losing all of them will clean things up quite properly.

Agreed, and more high detail frigates should be on the way soon! my 38 gun( actually 54 including chasers) high-detail frigate can replace the role of the lydia completely when ingame and texturd for various nations, and though that probably wont happen before beta 2, it should be done fairly soon after its release. I also plan on building frigates of nearly every size from that era. One mounting 50 guns(rated 36), another 46-48 guns(rated 36 or 32), and probably multiple versions of a 40 gun (mounting 54) Endymion class frigate. of course the unbuilt ships are well, unbuilt, but they will be the main focus of my modeling efforts in the forseable future. i also recently built a heavy ship-sloop built to the plan of the french privateer volage. I want to make a thread with pics for her soon (even though the modeling is done) but i might not have the time for awhile, plus i want to get my other ships ingame before i deal with the volage. sorry if im off topic, but i thought that information was important for planning the future of frigates in potc, just so no ones texturing is made obsolete as they finish it or something like that.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Good to know indeed! Looks like a nice frigate too!

When it comes to frigates, it seems we've got a fair few new custom models as it is: BattleFrigate/Constitution, RN_Surprise/Boussole/HMS_Indefatigable, HMS_Surprise and Fleuron/Poseidon.
And I think the HMS_Sophie, HMS_Greyhound and HMS_Bellona can also qualify as frigates, if I'm not mistaken.
Most of these are British of course, so frigates of other nations would be welcome in addition so we can have custom models for each nation rather than re-skins.
On the other hand, how many frigate-like ships do we need?

 

[Armada]

HMS_Bellona and the Poseidon models are not frigates, but are more like ships of the line.
They have around 80 guns and 60 guns respectively, so carry far more than the maximum of around 50 that large frigates could carry.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Consider me corrected on that account; I'm not too knowledgeable on the whole thing, as you can tell.

Anyway, my point is that we do have quite a few frigate-type ships. Even without those, there's still quite a few left, isn't there?

 

[Armada]

We do have quite a few frigates, yes, but I think Armstrong's point is that they're mostly repaints. There are loads of ships based on the Consitution and Boussole, for instance.
Having a variety of models would be nice to replace the repaints, such as HMS Endymion to replace RN_BattleFrigate, so the frigates have more of a national identity.
That's all more long-term improvements anyway, so you can pretty much ignore it for Beta 2's clean-up.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

We do have quite a few frigates, yes, but I think Armstrong's point is that they're mostly repaints. There are loads of ships based on the Consitution and Boussole, for instance.
Having a variety of models would be nice to replace the repaints, such as HMS Endymion to replace RN_BattleFrigate, so the frigates have more of a national identity.
That's all more long-term improvements anyway, so you can pretty much ignore it for Beta 2's clean-up.

That's correct, pretty much exactly what I had in mind. Yeah chances are that even the frigate i posted a pic of wont be ready in time for beta 2, but I plan on making types to fill the gaps in size, looks, armament etc. The only frigates ingame are based off of the constitution and the suprise models, the complete opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of size and firepower for frigates.( the greyhound i believe was classified as a 6th rate in the RN, (inbetween frigates and ship sloops in size)but shes from the early 1700s and wouldve been clasified as a ship sloop later on. the ship sloop i made from the volage(1797) carries 24 guns, and is a larger ship than greyound. the hms sophie is a brig, and only carries 18 guns to boot, so definately not a frigate.) the vast majority of frigates were inbetween the suprise and constitution in size, so thats why I plan to build mostly in that range. My Idea is to build frigates that are a good representative for each country not only in looks and design, but in size and proportions as well. For example I plan on building a 36 gun frigate (mounting 50) on a stereotypical british design because Britain preffered to build frigates that were as economical and efficient as possible, and the 18 pdr 36 could fill almost every role asked of a frigate, and was cheaper thatn the 18 pdr 38 or 40 (ratings only, all carried more guns)there also arent any british frigates ingame yet.(surprise was french built) Even though I plan on buillding frigates for as many nations as possible, I think it would be best to have reskins for other nations in some cases. ship design was fairly similar between countries like france and spain, and it would help to have more than one size and type of frigate for each country. also some contries copied others' designs. for example the Revolutionnaire was copied by the english who built the HMS Forte to her lines. later on one of her sister ships was copied to form a new standard class of 38 gun frigate. anyways I will outline all this later in detail, but I thought it was important that no one wasted time improving the lydia or something when she can be replaced pretty soon.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Hopefully I will finish the light frigate rigging tonight. :nk But! Since there are so many of them being removed and re-skinned I don't know what to do with this one when I'm done. Should I just post the one and let someone else sort this out? :?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Let's see... corvette-based ships that we still have for Beta 2:
Corvette1
Corvette2
CrimsonBlood
CursedCorvette
FR_Corvette
RN_Corvette
PO_FastNavy
SP_Corvette

If I recall, the SP_Corvette is the one with the older style rigging. The PO_FastNavy has completely different rigging too.