Conversion Request

[Post Captain]

I was wondering if anybody had the time to take on a new conversion. As of now, we have a model of the real Surprise and the film Surprise. I propose adding another Surprise, based on the hull of the real, historic Surprise, and rigged as the Hms Surprise with Jack Aubrey's modifications as described in the Aubrey/Maturin Series. This would involve adding a 36 gun frigate's mainmast with a royal. (just the lower portion of the mast, not the topmast and topgallant mast) The foremast would also receive a royal, and the stays'ls and Jibs would be slightly changed. The lower portoion of the Mizzenmast would be increased in height so that a larger spanker could be rigged, and the mizzenmast would receive a t'gallant and royal. A new figurehead might also be added. Working fore and quarterdeck carronades would also be added. This would be an entirely new ship ingame.

I don't have the knowledge to do anything like this at all, but I can provide the proportions of all the rigging to the original vessel, from the book The Frigate Surprise.

I was able to find this picture online. The one on the right is Aubrey's, the one on the left is the original Surprise.

Here's a painting of Aubrey's Surprise by Geoff Hunt:

Any input on the idea is welcome.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

The only ship I can think of offhand with masts that tall is the HMS Unicorn. Other than transplanting those masts to the Surprise, what you are asking for is another complete Surprise. I already have other projects lined up.

 

[Post Captain]

I do understand that this would be a somewhat major project, replacing all of the rigging except the foremast. The main top and t'gallant masts, as well as the foremast could be saved, but I have no idea how that works. This was more intended as a suggestion or a proposition, since it would take a good amount of work.

Basically, rigging changes would be as follows (recapping what I stated earlier, but condensed):
lengthened Jibboom w/ new sails
taller lower portion of the mainmast and mizzenmast, with new spanker and mains'l
all masts get royals and new stays'ls
mizzen topgallant mast added (if it doesn't already have one)

What stays the same:
foremast (not counting the new royal)
main topmast and topgallantmast (not counting new royal)

Again, this is intended as a suggestion with slight... requestishness for anyone who may be looking for inspiration for another project.

 

[Noriruru]

Umm... Don't we already have a surprise in the Game? :mm

 

[Kharbydis]

Umm... Don't we already have a surprise in the Game? :mm

Yes, however it is the film version of the HMS Surprise, which is a modified replica of the HMS Rose.

I have several resources on M&C ships that someone could use but no modelling skills or programs unfortunately.

The film's Surprise is very close in the overall look of the boat, just missing some details.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

the carronades would certainly be doable, and maybe the current suprise's mainmast could simply be scaled up to make it more like that of a 36 gun frigate? unfortunately I'm way to busy with my own projects to do this, and while I really like the suprise in game because she is a good , realistic frigate, I would rather build a completely new 32, 36, or 38 gun frigate than make yet another version of the suprise. If youre interested, I can put my carronade model on the ftp once I have textured it, and you could replace the QD and fcsle broadside guns with them.

 

[Post Captain]

I would rather build a completely new 32, 36, or 38 gun frigate than make yet another version of the suprise.

I agree with you there, I just thought this might be a good "auxiliary project" for an Aubrey/Maturin fan. Unfortunately I can't do any of this stuff myself, so it might be better to abandon the plan altogether, unless anyone is wiling to take it over completely. I do realise that that is unlikely at this point.

The film's Surprise is very close in the overall look of the boat, just missing some details.

An outstandingly horrible replica on most points, but a nice ship. (It even has showers and flushing toilets. They were big relief at the SD festival of sail after using the Pilgrim's marine toilet for two weeks. Before that I had to place the used toilet paper in a bin next to the head and... I think I may have gone to far there...) If this were ever done it would have to be done using the original, real Surprise now called the "28 gun frigate." (I think)

 

[Captain Armstrong]

I agree with you there, I just thought this might be a good "auxiliary project" for an Aubrey/Maturin fan. Unfortunately I can't do any of this stuff myself, so it might be better to abandon the plan altogether, unless anyone is wiling to take it over completely. I do realise that that is unlikely at this point.

well I cant promise anything, I have too many of my own projects that are long overdue, but seeing as i also have that book on the surprise, ill take a look through and get a better Idea of what it might involve. Even if I did take this on, I wouldn't actually make the changes until the Prince de Neufchatel, Volage, and Revolutionnaire are in game (on a side note I think there is an inboard profile plan of the lead ship of the Revolutionnaire's class, the Seine, in the first few pages of that Surprise book, and she was also designed by Forfait like the Surprise) Anyways I might be interested at some point. I will be modifing the constitution model to be more historically accurate, with carronades and cut down bulwarks and the like, so if that project goes well I might be able to do something with the surprise. I think we could really do with a Jack Aubrey quest too, based mostly off of the books. I have plans for many of the ships that appear in the series(like the Boadicea, Sirius, Lively, Raisonnable-same class as Agemmemnon and Indefatigable-and some others ones too) so theres alot of potential there

 

[Kharbydis]

An outstandingly horrible replica on most points, but a nice ship. (It even has showers and flushing toilets. They were big relief at the SD festival of sail after using the Pilgrim's marine toilet for two weeks. Before that I had to place the used toilet paper in a bin next to the head and... I think I may have gone to far there...) If this were ever done it would have to be done using the original, real Surprise now called the "28 gun frigate." (I think)

Really?
I wouldn't know, having only seen the film replica in the film, never in real life (wrong side of the country).

 

[Post Captain]

Really?
I wouldn't know, having only seen the film replica in the film, never in real life (wrong side of the country).

You were correct, as the ship was seen in the film. It doesn't have a large main hatch (that was computer generated in the film) and the gun deck has about eight feet of head room (they didn't use anything belowdecks in the film, as far as I can tell). there is a false gun deck as part of the SD Maritime Museum's display, raised on both sides with replica guns. It also shouldn't have a quarterdeck, and the bulwarks are wrong. It was also converted from a 1750s' 24 gun frigate, adding some slight inconsistencies w/ size and shape. It is also missing the fourteen or so carronades on the main deck. But I did enjoy their bathrooms. (I can't really call them heads- flushing toilets and the like)
You should compare it to one of Geoff Hunt's paintings of the true Surprise. I trust the accuracy of his work without reserve. That being said, I still like it, despite the inaccuracy, since some of the features are necessary for its function as a stationary museum ship.

The story related to the spacious gun deck is that the designers of the Rose were thinking of turning it into a restaurant if it didn't generate enough interest as a working replica, by the way.

I will be modifying the constitution model to be more historically accurate, with carronades and cut down bulwarks and the like

I definitely think that all of that stuff should come first. I'm pretty excited for the reworked Constitution model, by the way. In accordance with this thread's inherent AubreyMaturinesque nature, maybe the Sprightly you were working on would make a good Ringle. But I digress. This Surprise project can definitely wait indefinitely.

That last sentence did sound rather funny...

 

[Post Captain]

Now that I've kind of almost semi-learned how to model, would someone with some experience be willing to help me out if I tried doing this myself? I have all the necesary rigging and deck plans required.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

well what exactly do you need help with?

 

[Post Captain]

Pretty much anything I don't know how to do (that's the problem)- That will probably amount to importing the current models, getting the correct scaling, and getting the new rigging back on a copy of the ship.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

do you have the gm viewer and Maya 5.0? when you view a model in the gm viewer, there is a button that says 'obj export' or something like that. this exports the model to .gm format, which can then be imported into maya. this doesnt always work as it should unfortunately, and there are often bugs in the model (IE strange shapes sticking out everywher, missing pieces) there is another method that works but I dont know how, I may have the files for RN_Suprise in maya, but I'll have to check.
I think it would be Ideal to base it off RN_suprise(it has the most detailed modeling) but re cut the proper number of gunports, remove the barels and clutter from the deck (aubrey would never allow such a mess! ^_^ ) and maybe update the carronade models with the ones used on the prince and my other ships, and also use long guns for the stern chasers rather than carronades.
As for scaling you have to import a model from ingame, and just eyeball it(though I think the grid might be in meters, because when I scaled the rev I counted and the length on deck in squares of the grid in maya is within a meter or so of the length on deck of the real ship)
for Plans you need to create a plane with the same dimensions as your scan or whatever it is, and then texture the plan with the plan. if it is too big or too small, just scale it so the outline of the hull fits with the model. (Feel free to ask if you need any of these things explained )

 

[Post Captain]

I think I understood most of that. I'm not sure if maya is back on the downloads page yet, but I have most of the plugins dowloaded for it.

 

[Captain Armstrong]

I think it would be great to see this project revieved for an Aubrey/Maturin storyline in HOOCOTS. looking at KArl Heinz Marquadt's plans, there is an amazing amount of detail that could be included with the higher polygon limits of UDK. maybe even a whole new model could be built, or at least new quarter galleries, transom, headrails and the like.

 

[Armada]

What kind of hull changes are you thinking of? We have two models that could be modified: the replica ship from M&C, and the historical version (former French frigate 'L'Unité').
If you're suggesting any changes to the M&C model, it would be good to know sooner rather than later, since I'm revisiting that model after completing the Rossiya (to make a HMS Providence version).

 

[Captain Armstrong]

Not the movie version the other one. The plans
I was talking about are more detailed than anything
I've built thus far, and I was thinking it would be
More appropriate for udk with less polygon restrictions.