• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

Being Innovative

Pieter Boelen

Pieter Boelen

Navigation Officer
Administrator
Storm Modder
Hearts of Oak Donator
Some games are succesful just by taking a tried and proven concept and making a good game out of it.
However, generating interest might work a lot better if there were actually something properly innovative in the game.
Age of Pirates appears to me to basically be the same as Pirates of the Caribbean with some things done better and some things not.
I gather the same applies to Sea Dogs, though that was a better game to begin with.

But to what extent should Corsairs 4 build on what was done before and to what extent should it be attempted to try something truly new?
And what could that "new" be?

Personally I believe there's plenty of innovative concepts that could be thought of that might work well with the game concept from Corsairs 1-3.
I would offer the following as suggestions:
- "Real" game world with actual characters with personalities and in which your actions have effects in both subtle (personal) and major (political) ways
- Seamless gameworld in which there's a minimum of reloading and not certain things, like going ashore or starting a boarding, are skipped over
- Officer/crew-interaction and this becoming a more important aspect in the game as you get command of bigger ships
- Gameplay as CAPTAIN, rather than SHIP at sea: you actually have to give orders and make decisions about the handling of the ship and your crew executes them
- A combination of partly fast-paced beat-'em-up style gameplay in the swordfights with the RPG elements of the rest of the game

The above I have, of course, already brought up in different threads, but I figured a seperate thread on the innovative aspects of the game might also be useful.
 
Option to switch between Captain/ship, people who want to play fast, will rather want it to be aracade like <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
 
As far as that's concerned, I was thinking that the 3rd person mode (looking at ship mode) would be the arcade "control of ship" version and the 1st person mode would be "captain" mode.

By default, you'd always look at your ship from the outside and you'd control the ship directly as you always did.
However, when pressing Tab to switch to 1st person mode, you'd take control of the captain instead.
That way, you'd aways be able to switch between modes instantly and you shouldn't be <i>forced</i> to use the 1st person mode.
But there WOULD be a lot of gameplay value to be gained there, if you'd care to give it a try. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
I like your ideas of the reasoning for switching from ship view to deck view, Pieter. That would add an entirely new depth of gameplay to the game. If it were possible, it would also be nice if your deck crew could gain thier own experience in the things they do. Gun crews gain thier own gunnery experience and the same men always show up at the same gun(barring them being killed in an encounter that is). But that may be taking things to an unnecessary extreme.

Cap'n Drow

I'll have more to comment on this later.....
 
I do very much like your suggestion; it plays into my previous suggestion of every character actually being a character.
So there'd be some of your sailors with high experience and it'd be a big loss if those are killed.
That'd make you care about your crew, rather than them being "just a number". I hate that. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
Hi,

"Captain mode" as Pieter refered to it would be a lot better in 1st/3rd person.....I personaly hate 1st person only games.(I know you meant on the ship).

As for game world..... I think limiting the map to the Carribean again would not be a good idea as that makes it just another redo of the same old thing and it's getting a bit worn out.
World map with trade route cities on each continent with a concentration of activity in and around the Caribbean would probably work well.That'd open up a wider scope of possibilties for multiplayer, future addons, Character type..Pirate or Trader,even trade empire building.

damski.
 
Agree with Damski62's opinion <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
Agreed too. I shouldn't have worded the captain mode as being "1st person mode".
I meant doing away with the 1st person mode aboard your ship's deck altogether and instead have a 3rd person "walking around" mode when you'd go to your deck.
So you'd sail your ship from the outside view as in PotC, but if you press Tab, you immediately go to your 3rd person on-deck view.

I also REALLY don't like 1st person gaming at all. And there's no need for it in this genry anyway.
Probably the only reason why the PotC on-deck mode is 1st person is because the ship deck isn't detailed enough for your 3rd person character to walk around.
Or it's some sort of game engine limitation. Or both.

As we were discussing in <a href="http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?showtopic=13039" target="_blank">The General Game World Concept</a> thread as well, it appears most people like the idea of having places to visit outside the Caribbean.
Indeed that would also constitute being innovative, since it's not done at all in any of the previous Corsairs games.
I think East India Trading Company does something like that though;
maybe we ought to have a bit of a look what they're doing there and prevent ourselves from copying them. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":razz" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />
 
For me, being able to command the ship from the deck is very important. If PotC didn't have that, I'd never have looked at it. Imagine a flight simulator that didn't have a view from the cockpit. There will be times when you need to see your ship from an external view, so we need both.

World War II submarine games spend a lot of time sailing between encounters and handle it well, so if we needed to cross the Atlantic there are ways to do it without resorting to the worldmap we have in PotC.

Hook
 
Silent Hunter 3, for example, maps the entire world... I think. There may not be ports everywhere, but I've sailed from Germany to America to attack shipping around Boston, and I've spent some time in the Indian Ocean and I think around Australia. Maybe I should check out the Caribbean some time. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

If I'd wanted to spend the actual amount of real time it would take to sail that far, I could have, but we're talking weeks. What I actually did was go to my chart desk, plot a course with directions and speeds, and enable time compression while watching the chart. Time compression is variable, up to 1028 times real time I think, and if you encounter anything it drops back to real time. Encounters can include visual contact, sonar contact, radar contact, radio reports of convoy positions or an aircraft finding your sub.

Beware: Silent Hunter 3 uses Starforce copy protection. Do NOT run the game from the CD.

Something I very much enjoyed was running almost the entire game from voice commands using an application called Shoot. Impressed my son quite a bit. Me: "All ahead full." Game: "Ahead full, Aye, Sir." Setting up a torpedo attack, firing the torpedoes, navigating back to port using nothing but voice commands at night in heavy fog where your only navigation aids were the lighthouses, taking the submarine completely into the sub pen, it was a wonderful experience.

Hook
 
That does indeed sound very cool! And I would also like a similar traveling system in Corsairs 4 to replace the unrealistic worldmap.
What you describe is some sort of worldmap-but-realistic version, which sounds a lot better to me. A map on the captain's desk could work for that.

Playing the game with voice commands? Now that is also REALLY cool!
Would be fun if Corsairs 4 could also support that, if my suggestion of "captain mode" would be feasable. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
You: "Hard to starboard!"
Game: Aye,aye captain, HARD TO STARBOARD!"
You:"... i get a bit thirsty, could use some drink."
You:"Honey, could you give me a glass of icetea?!"
Game: "Aaargh you've got me ear laddy!"
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rofl" border="0" alt="24.gif" />
 
Here's the site for Shoot 1.6.4

<a href="http://clans.gameclubcentral.com/shoot/" target="_blank">http://clans.gameclubcentral.com/shoot/</a>

Note that it will work with any game that uses keyboard commands, and you "train" it to recognize your voice, so even Pieter with his thick Dutch accent could use it.

<ducks>

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

Hook
 
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whippa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":whipa" border="0" alt="whippa.gif" />
 
OK here's a crazy thought....

Why the Caribbean? Why not the Mediterranean?

Why do we have to put ourselves in the "normal" age of piracy and not earlier. This is an era not done in any games previously, you could get to face Hayreddin Barbarossa or alike.

Plus you could also say that everyone is a little to used to the "normal" pirates of the Caribbean.

There would be plenty of material to use, aswell as personalities. And you could include large parts of Africa/Arabland
 
Interesting for sure. There was also plenty of piracy in the Mediterranean and in the Indian Ocean and near Indonesia.
AND it would go nicely AGAINST the current western world vs. the Muslims mentality. Which is a GOOD thing as far as I'm concerned.
 
Cool little ap there Hook, thanks for the link! That would have been pretty handy in B-17 Flying Fortress as well! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

I definitely like the idea of using a chart for navigation. Sea dogs was kind of like that, although it wasn't really a chart, just a map. I think that was one of the things that made it feel more "authentic". That would also be one way to eliminate the randomness of ships on POTC/AOP overview map. They just seem to wonder around aimlessly with no preset course until they bump into an island. Sometimes it is really laughable how they move. It would sure eliminate some code not having to set a course for each individual ship.

I also like the idea of being able to sail to Europe, or the coast of Africa, that would literally open up a whole new world of game play options. I think though that that should be reserved as something special, perhaps a once or twice only event. I believe the focus should be on the Caribbean. I like the way Port Royal did their map, covering the southern US to the north, Mexico and Central America to the west, and northern South America to the south. That would open up major economic potential, and plenty of ocean to and terrorize! ...err explore! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=311946:date=Apr 9 2009, 03:31 AM:name=Keith)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keith @ Apr 9 2009, 03:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=311946"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OK here's a crazy thought....

Why the Caribbean? Why not the Mediterranean?

Why do we have to put ourselves in the "normal" age of piracy and not earlier. This is an era not done in any games previously, you could get to face Hayreddin Barbarossa or alike.

Plus you could also say that everyone is a little to used to the "normal" pirates of the Caribbean.

There would be plenty of material to use, aswell as personalities. And you could include large parts of Africa/Arabland<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Interesting thoughts Kieth, I posted my last comments before I saw your post. That would indeed open up a lot of possibility's. Focusing on the Indian Ocean and the Horn of Africa would put C4 right into the middle of today's headlines for sure. If you were to include all of Africa, the Mediterranean and southern Europe, then you really open up endless possibility's for story lines. You also would have to deal with some of the most treacherous waters to navigate on the planet. I wonder if the new engine could handle The Cape of Good Hope and a typhoon!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top