Engine Limitation Bad Saves

[ChezJfrey]

It was very interesting to read about why the engine does what it does! I kinda get the theory, but I have no idea what to do or where to even start with applying the compilation Is it very complicated? Or is it just a switch of exes? Or somewhere in between? if it's not too far over my head I'd definitely be interested!

If one is satisfied running build 14 as it stood several months ago, with perhaps still some remaining modification that I have missed (I am largely unfamiliar with NH details/gameplay), that is available. But, as noted in my post to pedrwyth Engine Limitation - Bad Saves if the most current is desired, the effort is not trivial. If it were more widely adopted, and the scripts were changed over and maintained going forward...well, that would be a different story...

 

[ChezJfrey]

@LarryHookins is referring to this issue: "Solved" - Windows 10: Low Frame Rates Despite (BECAUSE OF!) Good Hardware
It is massively annoying and, as far as I'm aware, does not apply to CoAS.
So if indeed your engine fixes that for PotC, it is a massive win for you indeed!

LOL, even worse...my latest OS is Win7, though my kids have Win8...and none of that 'good' hardware like NVIDIA/super video cards with crazy GPU performance. So I have no idea at this point, though I suspect if it doesn't afflict stock COAS, since this is based on that same engine version, it may be fine. Someone else will have to give it a go!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

If one is satisfied running build 14 as it stood several months ago, with perhaps still some remaining modification that I have missed (I am largely unfamiliar with NH details/gameplay), that is available. But, as noted in my post to pedrwyth Engine Limitation - Bad Saves if the most current is desired, the effort is not trivial. If it were more widely adopted, and the scripts were changed over and maintained going forward...well, that would be a different story...

The changes between the version from a few months back and the current one should not be that huge.
It's mainly been some quest work, added ships and models.
@Grey Roger would know the details.

LOL, even worse...my latest OS is Win7, though my kids have Win8...and none of that 'good' hardware like NVIDIA/super video cards with crazy GPU performance. So I have no idea at this point, though I suspect if it doesn't afflict stock COAS, since this is based on that same engine version, it may be fine. Someone else will have to give it a go!

Fair enough. Hopefully it works. Chances are that it does.

 

[pedrwyth]

Ha! So you gave it a look...that is encouraging.

I will attempt to inform what I can remember.

First, script file changes. The list of changed script files: ......

Thanks for that I can check those from 4.0 to current 4.1 and then look at any that have changed to merge with yours.

Also, all the .ini files were slightly changed to disallow resizing of interface for wider resolution, most notable and significant changes were to rigging.ini for the way New Horizons handles flags. I think flags could be improved, because I have coded a feature to allow multi-row textures for flags, vs. the single row limitation, but I did not go so far as to making all the script file changes and combine the flag texture files to make use of that, and simply retained the current way they are handled in NH.

RESOURCE animation .ani files need additional definitions for more of the 'random' actions allowed. I simply copied an existing action multiple times (with the added 'number' used for random selection). Examples:

man_ab.ani
blaze.ani
Beatrice.ani
man.ani
beatrice_ab.ani

SKY changes: As you mention, the old version only has a _side for sky, but newer uses a right, left, back, forward texture. To accommodate POTC/NH, I added a feature in the engine that will look for a .useOld attribute and if noted, will presume _side is right, left, back, and forward, to create the cube texture for sky. I would think a better approach would be to create the additional sky textures and make use of the expanded feature of sky wrap-around.

Worldmap
rename islands.gm as mein.gm
add islands.gm locators for merchant, quest, island labels...this locator file probably needs some work, but I did the minimum to get it functional in the game. Will also need some script work to read/give the worldmap encounters the from/to locations the same way the current game works.

Again at least I will know what to look out for and some of what to expect!

I also believe some texture and/or model files were moved to some different subdirs...can't remember them all, but the newer game does have some hardcoded paths that were changed from 2.0 to 2.8 version...I just can't remember them all and did not specifically document them.

So any moved files are placed elsewhere because of hard coded limitations. There has been a substantial amount of file location changes anyway in POTC NH through its various builds as far as I can see

But, as noted in my post to pedrwyth if the most current is desired, the effort is not trivial.

Everything is relative and it probably is trivial in comparison with the work you have done across the storm engine games to get them to run off one platform and remove previously inbuilt problems in the compiled code as well as scripts.

One question about the text used for dialogues etc - which seems to be that for COAS etc. Is that a limitation or a convenience in using one platform because my old eyes struggle with the smaller font in any of the later games. Just asking!

 

[LarryHookins]

One question about the text used for dialogues etc - which seems to be that for COAS etc. Is that a limitation or a convenience in using one platform because my old eyes struggle with the smaller font in any of the later games.

Have you tried running the game in a lower resolution? This may not help with the dialog text but it's worth a try. I had to do this with TEHO before I had cataract surgery.

 

[DeathDaisy]

If one is satisfied running build 14 as it stood several months ago, with perhaps still some remaining modification that I have missed (I am largely unfamiliar with NH details/gameplay), that is available. But, as noted in my post to pedrwyth Engine Limitation - Bad Saves if the most current is desired, the effort is not trivial. If it were more widely adopted, and the scripts were changed over and maintained going forward...well, that would be a different story...

Thanks for that I can check those from 4.0 to current 4.1 and then look at any that have changed to merge with yours.

I'm super impressed with your work @ChezJfrey , literally never even considered a engine switch could realistically be done! 1000 cudos! Very excited

 

[ChezJfrey]

So any moved files are placed elsewhere because of hard coded limitations. There has been a substantial amount of file location changes anyway in POTC NH through its various builds as far as I can see

Most of the file locations are specified in attributes of various script objects, so those are fine. I seem to recall there were a couple paths that were not read/settable in attributes and were hardcoded into the engine; those had to be moved. Again, I don't remember what those were offhand, but a comparison of the resource directories of stock NH vs. my changed would help identify. That FreeFileSynch could probably do that and if you are still unfamiliar with some of its features, I could probably run it myself to see what those moves might consist.

One question about the text used for dialogues etc - which seems to be that for COAS etc. Is that a limitation or a convenience in using one platform because my old eyes struggle with the smaller font in any of the later games. Just asking!

Ah, yes, I had forgotten the dialog change, which also reminds me of another change. Indeed, the dialog change was for convenience. The font scaling seems to have changed somewhat and the quickest fix was to simply borrow COAS; the POTC/NH fonts wound up rendering far too large in the new engine, skewing all display, so I swapped them out for a quick fix. The same goes for the dialog background, as the scheme for mapping the texture to the dialog background is totally different and the background was all messed up. Again, the quickest fix was to swap out the background texture used, to one of the newer versions. It would probably be possible to retain the original fonts, and perhaps experiment with some of the font scales to get the rendered result to work properly.

This brings me to the forgotten mention: The character 'mansign' and health bars. Again, convenience change to simply borrow COAS textures/settings because that methodology changed. It could probably be repositioned and the script reworked to bring it closer to what existed in POTC/NH, but the simple swap was the quickest for me.

 

[Grey Roger]

Out of interest, has anyone experienced any bad saves from recent versions of Beta 4.1? The last actual report of a bad save was in post #11 of this thread, which dates back to February 2016, and the thread had been dormant until someone woke it up.

I've vague memory that @LarryHookins posted a fix for saves some time ago. It must have been late 2016 or early 2017 because it went into one of the update archives, either post 28th July or post 7th January. And certainly, while I used to get the occasional bad save, I haven't had one for a long time, quite likely because of that fix. There are sometimes messages in "error.log" relating to saves and next time I get them, I'll post the log. But even after such messages have appeared, the savegame is valid.

Having said that, it might be worthwhile getting the newer engine to work with PoTC, provided that it does not increase the load on the system to the extent that some people can no longer play the game at all. Even the existing version of PoTC is now too demanding for some people, who have to resort to Beta 3.4.

 

[ANSEL]

Out of interest, has anyone experienced any bad saves from recent versions of Beta 4.1?

Yes! I have had a few. Last night I have one at Cartagena , then I stop playing without further investigation and went to bed
INCOMPATIBLE SAVE: -=Player=- New Granada. Room in Cartagena tavern February 13th, 1785 is compatible with 0.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

I remember getting one last spring in my old AMD FX system. Then maybe a month ago after reflashing the bios on my new AMD Ryzen motherboard I immediately got a bad save. Then just the other day I did something that accidentally broke loose a broken side quest and got a dad save-good save-bad save-good save sequence. Then it settled down and has been good since.

 

[DeathDaisy]

Out of interest, has anyone experienced any bad saves from recent versions of Beta 4.1? The last actual report of a bad save was in post #11 of this thread, which dates back to February 2016, and the thread had been dormant until someone woke it up.

Sad to report I'm still getting bad saves regularly

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Sad reports are reports too. So thanks, @DeathDaisy and @ANSEL!

 

[Ron foster]

To clarify, when I state 'newest compilation' that is not 2.8 COAS, as that version still contained the many memory leaks, poorer memory allocation algorithm and other bugs; the version referred is my newest compilation. What is also interesting, that while there are a couple 'likes' for the above, to date, there is no interest in using my newest compilation and the reworked New Horizons enabling usage of this later and improved engine; so far only ERAS, a Russian mod, and Modder01 for CT have embraced it.

Thanks for the information... I kinda thought this was what was going on and have shortened the periods between saves to overcome this limitation. I still even with the most current update to BLD14 (31 August 2017) have had system blue screen crashes and was unable to restart the game due to an "app crash" error which required reloading the update before I could restart a new game since the old game was wiped. Appears the update is still unstable enough to trash Win7 OS.

I suppose everyone playing NH enjoys the "cursed coin" gimmick since nothing has been done to remove the call to this bizarre and obviously Disney subroutine. My only work-around is to shut down and reset to the last save... losing a lot of game and time and too often a nice prize. Is no one able to locate and remove this call from the random event item generator? Just a simple delete of the call for this item should stop this nonsense and make the game a bit more rational and a lot less aggravating.

I also find very irritating the constant interruptions by characters asking for orders or telling me they are off duty and don't bother them. I don't know whose navy the people that developed the logic scheme (tree, diagram, whatever) but this kind of event does not ever happen in the world in anybody's military. When you go off duty the last thing most people don't do in the tavern is try to pick a fight with some swarthy seaman by confronting them and telling them to not bother you... that is asking for a fight. Likewise, nobody onboard a ship walks up to the captain and tells him you are at his service (he knows already!) and to give you an order... he will drop you into the ocean for sharkbait or at the next port just to be rid of you. Having the captain spin around to reply is not conducive to play and a needless and childish interruption. Can this be stopped?

Merchant transactions now charge a cost that escalates with the number of items remaining in stock. This is contrary to real mercantile. The more you buy of an item the lower the unit cost... as it was before the update. A stated cost for an item is an offer to buy... a contract offer... the acceptance means the buyer is free to buy all he wants at the offer price... this is business law and practiced everywhere... except NH due to the update. Can this be returned to the previous scheme?

If anyone desires to use the update it is an overlay to the existing installation and not a new install... trial and error method of discovery.

If anyone is interested I could go on and on, ad infinitum, about obvious ignorance induced inconsistencies and errors in the logic of the program. It is a fun game to play if it weren't for the glaring errors in the scheme.

I would think there are others out there that would better enjoy this game if it were taken out of the bizarre Disney world and offered a more reasonable resemblance to a very romantic and challenging era of tall ships.

Maybe the folks working on the remastering would extend their efforts to making the islands more resemble the real thing? Make the harbors and ships more to a constant scale so that the distortions are not so obvious?

I applaud the efforts that have been put into this game by people with obvious expertise and enjoy turning trash into treasure.

Keep up the good work maties.

LOL, even worse...my latest OS is Win7, though my kids have Win8...and none of that 'good' hardware like NVIDIA/super video cards with crazy GPU performance. So I have no idea at this point, though I suspect if it doesn't afflict stock COAS, since this is based on that same engine version, it may be fine. Someone else will have to give it a go!

I am using Win7 and recently installed the update to Bld14 update (31 August 2017) it is an overlay and not a stand alone game update. However, it solves no major problems and creates an issue with merchant payments that really makes gaining enough wealth to upgrade ships and equipment very difficult and frustrating... does not comply with normal merchantile practices. I suggest staying with the earlier, but buggier, version... this change is frufru.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

If your system is crashing all the way back to a blue screen of death (BSOD) then you have an unstable system. It is a hardware problem, not a software problem. The Storm engine is buggy and weak which causes crashes in poorly tuned systems. The Bioshock series is another one with a weak engine that causes a lot of crashes.

I'm an overclocker who builds systems and then pushes them to their limits. And then I stress test them to levels normally reserved for systems running science projects. They are more stable than most stock systems because they are tested to higher levels of stability. I only get one type of crash in POTC and methinks it is some background app starting up and crashing POTC. Probably Win10.

But even a stock system should be able to run POTC just fine as long as a basic preventive maintenance schedule is used.

Other than that it seems you don't like Disney. Meh. Who does? Do you know that in 2012 the CEO of Disney made $2 Billion dollars? And now he claims that his tax rate is too high when it's lower than yours or mine. But that money came from somewhere.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Recommendation: Take the above message by @Ron foster with a grain of salt.
Preferably a big one.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Would a bag be big enough?

 

[pedrwyth]

Have you tried running the game in a lower resolution? This may not help with the dialog text but it's worth a try. I had to do this with TEHO before I had cataract surgery.

Missed replying to this earlier!! Thanks for the suggestion @LarryHookins, I haven't tried that but will see (sorry) how that goes when I get back from travelling. It's actually not that bad on a laptop because I'm much closer to the screen - its more for the large screen.

 

[Ron foster]

I am having frequent blue screen crashes and other crashes related to play stability...maybe this will help:

I suggest that anyone involved in fixing bugs play the New Horizons game of POTC to get first hand experience with the many, many frustrating incidents built into the code.
You can't appreciate or be interested in fixing what you don't experience first-hand.

Treating any and all forum members with respect at all times, both in public and in private. No exceptions will be tolerated on this rule and not following this will lead to consequences. Following this guidance are you?

 

[Levis]

First off all please don't make 3 posts in the span of 10 minutes, just edit your post if you want to add something to it.
Also I don't see what you post has to do with this topic, so please make a proper bug report.

I am having frequent blue screen crashes and other crashes related to play stability...maybe this will help:

As mentioned before BSOD's are caused by faulty hardware (often memory problems), a game or program is hardly ever the case of the BSOD, in most cases it's either drivers or memory.
Also the logs you are posting seem to indicate you have some spyware running on your system which causes some system instability, and when you are running POTC it tries to inject code into it. But probably because the game is older this doesn't work right and therefore you seem to get some problems. I sugest you get a check up to see if everything is okay because it looks to be like you are very infected.

I suggest that anyone involved in fixing bugs play the New Horizons game of POTC to get first hand experience with the many, many frustrating incidents built into the code.
You can't appreciate or be interested in fixing what you don't experience first-hand.

Most of the people working on this mod have quite some experience with this mod, most of us are playing it since beta 13 or so.
If there are any incidents please report them in the bug tracker so we can see what can be done about it. The nature of bug fixing complex system often is that when you fix something you create problems somewhere else already. A lot of the systems in the mod are tied together and balanced together, so changing something somewhere could result in bugs or unbalance somewhere else.

Treating any and all forum members with respect at all times, both in public and in private. No exceptions will be tolerated on this rule and not following this will lead to consequences. Following this guidance are you?

I have no idea who this is directed too, but it's not your job to say this. It's the job of the moderators

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Treating any and all forum members with respect at all times, both in public and in private. No exceptions will be tolerated on this rule and not following this will lead to consequences. Following this guidance are you?

Nice way of saying "hi" you've got there!