Feature Request About morale

[Pieter Boelen]

That's why I altered the

#define MAXCOASTGUARDCLASS = 2

down to a more realistic figure in my game- it is the coastguard not navy ships of the line one should expect. However I am now considering tweaking the level to match player ship (or largest in squadron) or to rise with player level.

There should already be some link with the player in place.
If I recall, it uses the same logic as Governor Ship Hunting and Treasure Quest Pirates.

If at the point the AI decides it can board, if it would be a piratical act if PChar sinks the ship, an attribute/variable is set that can be used to force the boarding captain into surrender dialogues you can then loot the ship but leave it afloat and that avoids the piracy effect (if I understand how @Pieter Boelen has it implemented). Haven't looked at the code just a thought at the moment.

That would indeed be a good way of handling it, I reckon.
But that was never done, because nobody released until now that would be necessary.

I don't know about the persistent coastguard fleet but I do think it was resolved (or at least was thought to be resolved)

If it's still not resolved, then that is a bug and should be investigated.
There IS code in place to avoid the persistent Coast Guard though; I double checked that not too long ago.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Smuggling.

The pros:
1) more money
2) adventure

the cons
1) When caught that nation and its allies become hostile to you. This makes trading difficult as the merchants refuse to deal with you. New lom cost $50-70,000 each after begging for forgiveness.
2) Smuggling can not be done until one has the cash to buy cargo, which leads to......
3) When caught you lose the merchant license. $1,000,000 gone.

This is according to my alleged memory as I have not bothered to try smuggling in 2 years or so.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

When caught that nation and its allies become hostile to you.

Does that happen in the Coast Guard dialog or only after you sink/capture a Coast Guard ship?
If it is in the dialog, that does indeed sound excessive.

 

[Hylie Pistof]

Dunno. It was real years ago. I have never sank a Coast Guard ship that I can remember.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Dunno. It was real years ago. I have never sank a Coast Guard ship that I can remember.

If you can confirm it is still no good now, we might be able to do something about it.

 

[Grey Roger]

The Merchant Licence is formally known as "Trade_Passport". As far as I can tell, the coast guard soldiers don't do anything with it - the word "passport" does not appear in "Coastal Guards_dialog.c". A wider search with Windows Search turns up "NK.c" (some basic stuff, including a function to check if you have it); "initItems.c" (defines the item); "characters_init.c" (gives you a "Trade_Passport" if you're a merchant, unless you're Cutler Beckett and you get the EITC version); and "nations.c", which is the only file I can see that takes the "Trade_Passport" off you. And it does that if you've committed an act of piracy.

All of which means that, at least in the current version of the game, it seems that being caught by the soldiers doesn't strip you of the Merchant Licence, but sinking (or capturing) a coast guard ship does.

As for a nation turning hostile to you if you're caught, there's an obvious answer to that - only smuggle into nations which are already hostile. Not only does it mean you don't lose relation points, it also means you don't lose your LoM or Merchant Licence for sinking a coastguard ship because it's not piracy if you're covered by a LoM.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

The Merchant Licence is formally known as "Trade_Passport". As far as I can tell, the coast guard soldiers don't do anything with it - the word "passport" does not appear in "Coastal Guards_dialog.c". A wider search with Windows Search turns up "NK.c" (some basic stuff, including a function to check if you have it); "initItems.c" (defines the item); "characters_init.c" (gives you a "Trade_Passport" if you're a merchant, unless you're Cutler Beckett and you get the EITC version); and "nations.c", which is the only file I can see that takes the "Trade_Passport" off you. And it does that if you've committed an act of piracy.

Exactly correct.
Which function is it again in nations.c that does all that?
My memory says "UpdateRMRelation" or something like that.

Is that function called anywhere in the Coast Guard dialog?
It might be, but I can't remember now for sure.
Such a call might make all the difference.

As for a nation turning hostile to you if you're caught, there's an obvious answer to that - only smuggle into nations which are already hostile. Not only does it mean you don't lose relation points, it also means you don't lose your LoM or Merchant Licence for sinking a coastguard ship because it's not piracy if you're covered by a LoM.

Definitely simplifies things.

 

[Grey Roger]

Exactly correct.
Which function is it again in nations.c that does all that?
My memory says "UpdateRMRelation" or something like that.

Your memory is correct.

Is that function called anywhere in the Coast Guard dialog?
It might be, but I can't remember now for sure.
Such a call might make all the difference.

It was called. It's now replaced by a simple loss of 10 relation points:

ChangeRMRelation(Pchar, GetSmugglingNation(), -10); // PB: was UpdateRMRelation

Which means, @Hylie Pistof, that two years ago you may very well have lost the Merchant Licence just for being caught by the soldiers. It shouldn't happen any more. (But you could lose your LoM if you keep getting caught and your relation drops too far. Don't smuggle to the nation that's paying you, they don't like it!)

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Your memory is correct.

I like my memory! Most of the time.

It was called. It's now replaced by a simple loss of 10 relation points:

Thanks for checking and confirming that! I'm glad we already caught that then before.

Don't smuggle to the nation that's paying you, they don't like it!

Or if you DO do that, take care so that you don't get caught.
With the redone system, you can actually influence whether you are caught or not, which means you can avoid it too.

Or even better, there is a random quest that basically lets you smuggle for the governor, because you'll be asked to investigate and help roll up the smugglers' gang.
Of course, to some extent, that allows you to do your smuggling legally. And if you then get caught, you can easily get out of it because it is legal.

So options aplenty, I'd say.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Yeah, as I was writing it, it sounded like a lot of work for a fairly minor occurrence. After all if you're close enough to the enemy to be boarded, chances are you either want to be there, or you won't be in a condition to escape even if you could disengage.

One other thing that just sprang to mind: the occasional minor act of piracy does absolutely no harm.
It is only when repeated too often that the game actually starts to consider you a pirate.
You can see this process happen by keeping an eye on the Nations Relations interface.

You may be able to counter it by capturing/sinking the occasional pirate ship again (can't remember for sure though if this works).
And any nation relations that are slowly sliding towards hostility can be brought back up through Governor Ship Hunting quests.

Long story short: Please pick a role to play and try to stick by that.
If things don't feel right, post feedback and hopefully we can figure out ways to improve all options across the board.
Every play style has been thought through to some extent; but it is the player feedback that makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Grey Roger]

Or if you DO do that, take care so that you don't get caught.
With the redone system, you can actually influence whether you are caught or not, which means you can avoid it too.

Not entirely. Getting the patrol timetable, either by bribing a soldier or risking sending an officer to scout, reduces the chance of being caught but does not eliminate it. I speak from personal experience here - the one time I played a smuggler was precisely to test this system, and although the coastguard did not show up often, they did still appear sometimes. Usually I'd then try to run for the boat, thereby avoiding the dialog, the fight and the relation point loss.

Even coastguard ships appeared once or twice, though that was during a moderately long smuggling career. (Well, moderately long by my FreePlay standards. Not very long compared to people who keep a single FreePlay campaign going for several game years. )

Or even better, there is a random quest that basically lets you smuggle for the governor, because you'll be asked to investigate and help roll up the smugglers' gang.
Of course, to some extent, that allows you to do your smuggling legally. And if you then get caught, you can easily get out of it because it is legal.

It's not random. If you're not hostile to the governor then the smuggling quest appears in the same dialog as the ship-hunting quest. But if the guards catch you and you show them the governor's document, the smugglers will hate you for being a traitor to them and you'll need to pay their agent to get back in their favour. Also, does working for the governor mean coastguard ships will never show up?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Not entirely. Getting the patrol timetable, either by bribing a soldier or risking sending an officer to scout, reduces the chance of being caught but does not eliminate it. I speak from personal experience here - the one time I played a smuggler was precisely to test this system, and although the coastguard did not show up often, they did still appear sometimes. Usually I'd then try to run for the boat, thereby avoiding the dialog, the fight and the relation point loss.

PROGRAM\smuggling.c:

#define        SMUGGLING_PERCENTAGE_BAD_INFO    50.0    //(float) 0-100 percentage of change which is calculated to see if you got bad info. 0 means you always get good info

Try setting that lower or to 0% and hopefully that should never happen again.

It's not random.

I mean it's a repeatable quest, just like Governor Ship Hunting, Treasure Quests, Escort Quests, etc.

But if the guards catch you and you show them the governor's document, the smugglers will hate you for being a traitor to them and you'll need to pay their agent to get back in their favour.

Fair enough, no? But can be overcome.

Also, does working for the governor mean coastguard ships will never show up?

Dunno. I never played it.

 

[Grey Roger]

PROGRAM\smuggling.c:

#define        SMUGGLING_PERCENTAGE_BAD_INFO    50.0    //(float) 0-100 percentage of change which is calculated to see if you got bad info. 0 means you always get good info

Try setting that lower or to 0% and hopefully that should never happen again.

I'm not sure if it's bad info or whether the patrol timetable improves your chances rather than making it completely safe. The idea is that there are fewer patrols at that time - but you could still be unlucky enough to be caught by one.

Fair enough, no? But can be overcome.

Certainly it's fair enough - if the smugglers find out you're working for the governor, of course they won't trust you any more! At least, not until you wave some gold at their agent. The point is that getting the governor's blessing isn't a ticket to free smuggling either, there will still be consequences.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I'm not sure if it's bad info or whether the patrol timetable improves your chances rather than making it completely safe. The idea is that there are fewer patrols at that time - but you could still be unlucky enough to be caught by one.

As far as I'm aware, IF you got good info, you should be 100% safe.

Certainly it's fair enough - if the smugglers find out you're working for the governor, of course they won't trust you any more! At least, not until you wave some gold at their agent. The point is that getting the governor's blessing isn't a ticket to free smuggling either, there will still be consequences.

True. But consequences make gameplay.
If there are no cons, there is no choice to make. Yet true role playing is all about making choices.