• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

Not a Bug [4.1] Ships with personal flag joining battle but in other AI group

Javrimir

Powder Monkey
Something totally strange happend. After capturing Speightstown in my own name, I tried to capture Bridgetown too.
During seabattle against the fort, some bigger ships with my personal flag came to the hotspot. I thought: Awesome, they gonna support me.
They also attacked the fort. But the crazy thing was, when shooting against the British fort, my ship automatically even shot against the ships with my personal flag (?!).
So the end of the story is, that the men who should serve me, captured my ship.
 
Were those personal flag ships your companions?

If not, did the Sail To menu or spyglass confirm that they truly were personal?

I'm not aware of this even being possible! :shock

Please mention your exact modpack version, including version number, date from main menu and what additional ZIPs you have installed.
 
Could it be they where berthed there? I have no idea if they are generated on the waters then but I guess that could be the case.
 
Could it be they where berthed there? I have no idea if they are generated on the waters then but I guess that could be the case.
Totally impossible. There is no code in place to link 3D Sailing Mode with berthed ships. :no
 
I can confirm that berthed ships don't appear in battle because during my last playthrough of "Tales of a Sea Hawk", I'd berthed a big battlewagon at Bridgetown in preparation for when I'd need to attack it. But I didn't get it out in time, so every time I tried to get into Bridgetown before attacking the fort, the fort had already been set to automatically recognise and attack me. Fortunately I had another battleship stored at Port Royale, so I went and collected that instead. Relevant to this discussion, the one berthed at Bridgetown did not appear during the fort attack, or during the subsequent battle against Silehard's fleet.

I have seen ships flying a Personal flag in the vicinity of a port which I've captured. But I wasn't fighting anyone at the time, so they didn't attack anything either. Possibly this is another piece of AI weirdness similar to what can happen on land when there are more groups present than just player and enemy.
 
Well I can imagine Coast Raiders being generated in the nation of the port. So if you captured a port for your personal nation I can imagine coastraiders being generated in this nation as well. That might explain it?
 
Possibly this is another piece of AI weirdness similar to what can happen on land when there are more groups present than just player and enemy.
Completely different systems. The land system is a complete mess. The sea system is not, because I rewrote it and it does what it is intended to do.

But....
I have seen ships flying a Personal flag in the vicinity of a port which I've captured.
When I rewrote it, I never took that possibility into account, because I had NO CLUE the game was able to do that! :shock

I assume that if the player takes over a town, the "smuggling nation" of the island is set to Personal.
And I think that is used to potentially determine the nationality of the Coast Raiders surrounding the island.
So that is the most likely reason why these ships even exist.

If that is indeed the case, there are two options:
1. Ensure these ships are NOT generated (I never knew it was possible anyway)
2. Ensure the sea AI also takes this into account (If so, how exactly? If you're flying a false flag hostile to yourself, should "Personal" NPC ships attack you or not?)
 
If they're being generated as Raiders, i.e. enemies, then that would explain why they're hostile to you. It doesn't explain why they're being generated as Raiders, though - shouldn't they be coastal merchant traffic instead? If there are rival nations controlling two colonies on the same island, the AI which places coastal ships doesn't seem to care where it places them, which means you're as likely to encounter British or allied ships next to Nevis Pirate Settlement as you are to encounter pirate ships, which means you can have trouble if you just started a game at Nevis Pirate Settlement.

Now that Personal Nation is in the game, Personal ships might be generated as raiders because Bridgetown is still hostile, but they should still be friendly to Personal. In the same way, I've approached a French fort while flying a British flag (genuine, for once - I had a British LoM and was about to use it). Also near the fort were some other British ships trying to attack it. They didn't attack me, I didn't attack them, and they helped me take out the fort.

The only piece of Personal weirdness I've seen was during the "Assassin" storyline, and that's entirely understandable. France is secretly helping Portugal by sending a disguised warship to reinforce Sao Jorge and you're there to sabotage it. The not-French-honestly warship is flying a Personal flag (not the same one as yours, but Personal anyway). So I'm approaching the port, and notice the fort is firing - but not at me. It's attacking the warship. This is because I'd previously been doing some freelance raiding against Portuguese ships, so Portugal hates me, and that warship is flying a Personal flag, while I'm under a false Portuguese flag which the fort hasn't recognised. So the fort thinks that ship is me. xD
 
How high of a priority has this?
If not so high I want to sugest to move this to brainstorming and first try to find out exactly how the coastal traffic is generated and if this is what we want or if we might want to change this.
 
Forgive me for my impatience... next time I should try differnet things, before creating a new thread in forums.
Of all six ships which were sailing around Barbados, all of them had my personal flag. But only two of them were "red" signed.
The reason is, that when I wanted capture Bridgetown, I wanted to do that with a false British flag (Britain was actually my hostile, because I captured Speightstown before).
So these two ships of mine were in the near, when sailing under British flag, so I guess they recognized me as their enemy, even after changing the British into my personal flag. So I leaved the island, stayed one night in Concepcion, came back and all my personal ships were again friendly.
 
Last edited:
Yes, that would do it. Once they've decided you're hostile, they're always hostile. They 've identified you as British and think your Personal flag is a false flag. xD

Incidentally, firing while under a false flag is very dishonourable and you'll suffer severe consequences for it. By all means use a false British flag to get close to Bridgetown fort, but hoist your Personal flag before opening fire, or everyone will regard you as treacherous scum.
 
So I guess we can say there is no bug here?
 
If they're being generated as Raiders, i.e. enemies, then that would explain why they're hostile to you.
No, it wouldn't. The term "Coast Raider" just means "ships generated around islands".
They're not by definition hostile. If they are, it is purely because of national relations and/or false flags, not because they're "Coast Raiders". :no

It doesn't explain why they're being generated as Raiders, though - shouldn't they be coastal merchant traffic instead?
They're the same thing. Coastal merchant traffic = Coast Raiders.
That's just the name that @CouchcaptainCharles gave to that feature when he added it many, many years ago. :shrug

Likewise, the "random characters in towns" are called the "Vice City" mod. He had a weird sense of humour. :cheeky

If there are rival nations controlling two colonies on the same island, the AI which places coastal ships doesn't seem to care where it places them, which means you're as likely to encounter British or allied ships next to Nevis Pirate Settlement as you are to encounter pirate ships, which means you can have trouble if you just started a game at Nevis Pirate Settlement.
Perfectly true; their placement is completely random. :yes

The only piece of Personal weirdness I've seen was during the "Assassin" storyline, and that's entirely understandable. France is secretly helping Portugal by sending a disguised warship to reinforce Sao Jorge and you're there to sabotage it. The not-French-honestly warship is flying a Personal flag (not the same one as yours, but Personal anyway). So I'm approaching the port, and notice the fort is firing - but not at me. It's attacking the warship. This is because I'd previously been doing some freelance raiding against Portuguese ships, so Portugal hates me, and that warship is flying a Personal flag, while I'm under a false Portuguese flag which the fort hasn't recognised. So the fort thinks that ship is me. xD
Ideally we should get PRIVATEER_NATION to work for that so Personal flags can be assigned to NPC ships without that also meaning they get the player's relations.
But that hasn't been done yet.

How high of a priority has this?
Quite high priority to figure out what is going on at least.
Whether anything has to be changed, that can be decided afterwards.

If not so high I want to sugest to move this to brainstorming and first try to find out exactly how the coastal traffic is generated and if this is what we want or if we might want to change this.
You don't need to worry about it anyway.
If anything is done, it'll probably be on the Sea AI Relations side of the code, which I rewrote so probably I can make any tweaks required.

Forgive me for my impatience... next time I should try differnet things, before creating a new thread in forums.
Of all six ships which were sailing around Barbados, all of them had my personal flag. But only two of them were "red" signed.
The reason is, that when I wanted capture Bridgetown, I wanted to do that with a false British flag (Britain was actually my hostile, because I captured Speightstown before).
So these two ships of mine were in the near, when sailing under British flag, so I guess they recognized me as their enemy, even after changing the British into my personal flag. So I leaved the island, stayed one night in Concepcion, came back and all my personal ships were again friendly.
In that case, it sounds like the system may actually be doing exactly what is it means to do:
- Personal ships have relations based on your own
- If you are flying a false flag hostile to yourself, then those Personal ships will be hostile to you (because they don't know you are you, since you're pretending to be someone else)
- If they remember you as being hostile, then they'll be hostile even if you go to sea again

This is how it works also for non-Personal nations and there are no exceptions in place to prevent it for Personal.

So then the question is: Is this OK like that? Or should there be some sort of exceptions?
 
They should be exceptions: as their leader I could call them on their smartphone and tell them that Im sailing under false flag :D
No, no it makes sense and is more realistic: sailing under a specific flag was the only way how they could identity each other.
 
Then I'll mark this as "Not a Bug".

I'm glad it was reported though; I had no clue this was even possible! Now I do. :cheeky
 
Back
Top