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What's a pinnace?

D

Darkheath

Landlubber
This may seem like a wierd question...

but both Sid Meier's Pirates and Port Royale have the Pinnace as the smallest ship in the game, but PotC has it as one of the larger ships.

Anyone in the know out there know which is right? ;)
 
Mr. Webster says -

Pinnace: Pin"nace, n. [F. pinasse; cf. It. pinassa, pinazza,
Sp. pinaza; all from L. pinus a pine tree, anything made of
pine, e.g., a ship. Cf. {Pine} a tree.]
1. (Naut.)
(a) A small vessel propelled by sails or oars, formerly
employed as a tender, or for coast defence; -- called
originally, {spynace} or {spyne}.
(B) A `man-of`-war's boat.

"Whilst our pinnace anchors in the Downs." --Shak.

But then I found this, from Ye Olde Booke O' Seadogs -

Pinnace:
A small vessel of about 20 tons dating from the 16th century, with two masts normally `square-rigged` on both but occasionally with a lugsail on the main. They carried oars as well as sails and were used frequently as advice boats taking messages from a senior officer to other ships under his command. They were also used, perhaps a little recklessly, as small ships accompanying the early voyages of exploration and although in his Principal Navigations Hakluyt describes the small Squirrel in which Sir Humphrey Gilbert lost his life on his return from Newfoundland in 1583 as a frigate, she was more accurately a pinnace.

Here's another take on it -

Until the advent of the sloop, pinnaces were the primary small craft of the Caribbean. Like a sloop, a pinnace is very fast, very maneuverable, and with a draft that permits sailing in shoal waters. Sailing upwind (`close-hauled`) it is even faster than a sloop, and much faster when rowing into the wind.

However, a pinnace is also much smaller than a sloop, with minuscule capacity for cargo and guns. Still, many a pirate raid was conducted in tiny pinnaces crammed with fighting men. Drake himself abandoned his merchantmen in favor of pinnaces when raiding on the Spanish Main.

I haven't paid much attention to the pinnace, lest it's to blast one out of the water. Anyone care to chime in on it's positioning in PotC?
 
Thanx Mad Jack.

From what you are saying it sounds as if Meier's and Port Royale have it right. In PotC, the Pinnace is a class 3 or 4 ship, of which I've only sunk one so far (for 4666 Exp pts!), but was then sunk by it's accompaning Brig, so all was for naught.

Admiral... I'm not sure what a Vajinneh is. I know I'm originally from Vajinneh Beach, you know, near Norfolk on the east coast. And I like my ladies to have a nice... OOOOO! :shock: I get it now!!!!
 
Say it in a cheesy French accent. :?

"Please don't laugh at my little Pinnace, mademoiselle. When your Vajinneh is so large..."

Remember... cheesy French accent. Some slurring may help as well. hehheh... :p:
 
The ships in POTC are certainly not accurately labelled - For one, the term "galleon" (in real life) applied to a ~vast~ array of ships dating as far back as the Mary Rose of King Henry VIII. Typically thus, this term inspires visions of lumbering, slow, but `heavily-armed` and ornately decorated `sea-going` behemoths - galleons remembered for the flamboyant painting and sculpting of their extravagantly elevated fore and sterncastles (e.g., the Swedish "Vasa"). For more than two centuries (until the advent of the sleeker, more Napoleonic `ship-of`-`the-line`) the mighty "war galleon" would form the backbone of any major navy's battle line.

There were many varieties of "galleons", however, from such early designs as the Mary Rose to the lumbering but `heavily-armed` troop ships of the later Spanish Armada (and to the swifter, `low-castle` English galleons which met it in battle). The faster "English" galleons ("English" vs. the larger and more common Spanish types) gave up the lofty forecastles of their rivals whilst retaining an equally impressive `quarter-deck` structure which offered superb `all-around` visibility and battle awareness for its commander.

This English galleon (~very~ comparable to the Pinnace in POTC) was lower to the water, very much lighter, and yet retained a sail area equal to that of the larger Spanish types. Thus, it boasted far superior speed and agility, while presenting a lower and narrower profile and thus - from a distance - a more difficult target.

The combination of these more `combat-worthy` ships and their `longer-range` culverins gave the English a lethal advantage over the French and Spaniards during the battle with the Spanish Armada, and throughout the later Elizabethan Wars to follow. The superior English `gun-carriage` also enabled gunners to fire their guns at almost twice the rate of their French and Spanish counterparts, in effect enabling the smaller, `single-deck` English ships to rival the firepower of even the lumbering `two-deck` Spanish "war galleon" in a close broadside exchange.

In POTC, the Pinnace thus more represents this English type of "fast" galleon (designed to excel in `ship-to`-ship combat), where as the "galleon" itself represents the more heavy Spanish type that would have served primarily to land troops and lay siege to coastal towns and fortifications.
It was during this era that the notion of "defeating an enemy at sea" was truly pioneered, for not since the Greek Battle of Salamis in 550 B.C. had the warship made a truly pivotal contribution to the battle on land.

In 1940, over this very same stretch of water, British aircraft would prove the essential benefits of airpower in quite a similar fashion.
 
Wow.. thanx Terror.

You are obviously well knowledged in this. Let me ask you.. for the most part are the models in PotC fairly accurate for the time period (1630)? Aside from the labeling inaccuracies.

Also.. you may know this. What gave the culverines their better range? Were they "rifled", or had rifled cannons been invented yet? I was thinking they actually made more of an appearance (on the field anyway) during the American Civil War, but not sure on that.

Oh... and sorry about yer britches there, Skull... hehheh :?
 
:? :p: ha! thats funny, im like drake i only got it when i said it ;)
 
Um. Rifled guns were a much latter developement. I think the change for culverins was the longer muzzle, leading to a greater muzzle velocity and thus more range (IIRC my ballistics right).
 
For the most part, the "basics" of the ships represented in POTC (given your time period) are ~fairly~ accurate. Wooden ships took an awfully long time to build, and hence their life/service spans were equally impressive. Some wooden `ships-of`-`the-line`, for instance, served for centuries, whilst others lasted less than a decade due to the chronic production flaws which were so common due to the primitive means of ship "modelling" available during these early years of `ship-design`.

Like "galleon", however, the word "frigate" actually refers to (for the time) a very broad range of ships. In actually history, for instance, the "corvette" as represented in POTC would actually have been a lesser class of frigate - frigates ranging from `single-deck` 20 gun ships to 48 gun `double-deckers`.

Other than that, the ships of POTC are `more-or`-less acceptably rendered - although it would have been very nice to see second and `third-rate` `ships-of`-`the-line` as opposed to just the 100 gun `man-of`-war, which personally I find looks rather odd without its appropriate support.

It would be logical to assume that the "battleship" is merely an older "war galleon", a ship still formidable but rendered obsolete in the era of `100-gun` `first-rates`.

In terms of firepower, English culverins were forged using `age-old` `bronze-working` techniques whilst the French cannon was typically made of iron. Bronze cast culverins were typically a far more expensive weapon, but the malleability of the material provided increased safety (as the cannon barrel, cast of brittle iron, was prone to exploding), and reduced recoil (hence, faster reloading) and more concentrated forward thrust (increased range and muzzle velocity). This weapon thus gave the English a devastating advantage over the Spanish and French throughout the colonial years, resulting in a margin of potential `sea-borne` carnage that was only deepened by the French reliance on `two-wheeled` and even skidded (mounted on iron "skis") gun carriages.

This aspect of naval warfare is certainly ~not~ well rendered in POTC, as the early English proved all too well that `twice-as`-important to gun caliber was the quality of the gun crew and the metallurgical science behind the weapon itself. In addition, no ship ever relied solely on any "single" class of gun. Even the coveted H.M.S. Victory (Horatio Nelson's flagship - a 100 gun `man-of`-war - at the Battle of Trafalgar) carried `32-pound` guns only on its third deck, the second housing `24-pounders`, the first `16-pounders`, and on the top - any combination of `12-pounders`, mortars, and cannonades (or, "murderers", as they were more popularly known).

Personally, I would think it very cool myself if such "`fine-tuning`" of `gun-power` were added to future builds. Hope this helps.

P.S.: In regards to gun carriages, the English were very quick to mount even their heavy `32-pounders` on sturdy, `iron-reinforced`, `four-wheeled` carriages. This enabled them to ~utilize~ the gun's recoil as part of their reloading procedure, and to maintain a most punishing `rate-of`-fire.
 
Thanx again Terror. I guess I really need to study up more on this stuff. I've always been interested, ever since our family vacations to the Outer Banks as a kid. Those were Blackbeard's stompin' grounds. One of his hideout coves was in that area.

Anyway.. i wonder if Rico ever figured it out yet? :cheers
 
:cheers Argh!! The Pinnace of course can ~seem~ slow from a fast warship, but I think it is actually the fastest "merchant" class ship in the game. It is also ~far~ more maneouverable than the fleut, caravel, or galleon, although it's weak gun armament can be a bit of a handicap. Nonetheless, I consider it quite an ideal ship for anyone who wants to make it big in the smuggling business (cavernous hold, yet ability to escape unwanted encounters).
 
Is that an ohter one of those jokes?? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> sure sounds like one <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />
 
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