Not a Bug Weird thing in Nation Relations

[Jason]

I am playing BFF in the most recent version. Sailed to Martinique, captured the Maurader, then got it repaired and got a French LOM. As I left flying my personal flag, I was attacked by two French warships.

 

[Levis]

What is you personal relation to france?

 

[Jason]

Wary, but shouldn't the LOM override that?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Please upload a savegame, ideally from before getting the LoM.

Wary is not hostile, so those ships shouldn't be trying to fire on you.
Unless you WERE hostile when you came in and those ships still remember.
Your compile.log file would tell us if that was the case.

Are you sure you DID get a LoM from France? I see code to set you Wary if you were hostile before.
But there is no LoM involved there. Where did you see that?

 

[Jason]

I am sure I did get a LOM. I was not hostile to the ships that I was aware of. Here is a save from after I got the LOM.

 

[Jason]

Some time later I returned with three prizes and the same two ships were lying in wait and attacked.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I am sure I did get a LOM. I was not hostile to the ships that I was aware of. Here is a save from after I got the LOM.

Yep, indeed you do have a LoM.

I loaded your save and went to sea; indeed there were hostile French ships there.
From compile.log:

FLAGS: The 'Saint Pierre Fort' has spotted us at 178.44 and will remember us as French with visibility=795.
FLAGS: The 'Convention' turned hostile as they have recognized us
FLAGS: The 'Magnanime' turned hostile as they have recognized us
FLAGS: The 'Desirée' remembers us as personal

Checking a bit further, I found that these are NOT normal ships, but actually quest ones:

id = Enemy_Captain01

Those are indeed always generated with the "recognized" attribute already set; that is necessary for the Treasure Quest Pirates and Smuggling Coastguard, for example.

These particular ones seem to be related to the Crewmembers on Shore mod.
The only way these guys could ever be generated is if you had any of the following dialogs with a character ashore:

               if(Makeint(NPchar.nation) == PIRATE)
               {
                 Dialog.Text = "You ! You'll never leave this island alive mate !";
                 Link.l1 = "We are recognized  !";
               }
               else
               {
                 Dialog.Text = "Damned ! That's you ! You'll never leave this island alive ! Alert ! Guards ! Guards !";
                 Link.l1 = "We are recognized  !";
               }

                 Dialog.Text = "Captain "  + GetMyFullName(PChar) + " i presume ! you are " + nationme + ". I don't like " + nationme + " bastards ! I'll wait for you on sea ! Farewell !";
                 Link.l1 = "It will be your end.";

               Dialog.Text = "Your nation is enemy of mine captain ! I'll wait for you on sea ! Farewell";
               Link.l1 = "It will be your end.";

         Dialog.Text = "I'm the captain of a good ship and i will never be in peace as long as you will on these earth ! I promise ! I'll see you on the sea Captain ! Farewell !";
         Link.l1 = "We'll see !";

           Dialog.Text = "I'm a corsar of the king and i accept your challenge mister ! You'll regret what you said.";
           Link.l1 = "Ha ! I'll sink you with pleasure !";

So as far as I can tell, this is an intentional feature.
Of course you managed to get into a very special case here where you probably WERE hostile to France when this conversation happened, but turned friendly afterwards.
That captain who challenged you to a sea battle wouldn't know about that though, so would still be hostile.

Also.... atrocious spelling in all that text! I think those "extra encounters" from the "Crewmembers on Shore" mod could do with a bit of improvement some time.

 

[Jason]

Thanks Pieter.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Glad to hear that explained it. So technically this is "Not a Bug", even if clearly it was a bit of an unexpected feature.

There seems to be a lot to do recently about the Crewmembers on Shore mod.
Of course that hadn't been changed in at least 5 years, but apparently nobody really used it until now or never noticed its effects.
It can certainly do with improvement, so when I find the time, I'll set up a discussion thread for that one too.

 

[Jason]

Well, I am thinking that my course of action here might be to lure them away from the fort, change my flag and take them. Otherwise I won't be able to get into the port.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Well, I am thinking that my course of action here might be to lure them away from the fort, change my flag and take them. Otherwise I won't be able to get into the port.

Definitely sounds like a good plan.

 

[Levis]

@Pieter Boelen wouldn't it be possible for these kind of quests to spawn them out a bit further in the water so the fort wont interfere and have them raise theire pirate flag. Seeing they challenged you to a sea battle.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

@Pieter Boelen wouldn't it be possible for these kind of quests to spawn them out a bit further in the water so the fort wont interfere and have them raise theire pirate flag.

Such quest ships are ALWAYS generated close to the player, regardless of where you set sail from.
That applies to Smuggling Coastguard and Treasure Quest pirates as well.
You could check the Governor Ship Hunting ones though, because those are generated through the exact same function.

Having their nation changed to PIRATE should be simple enough.
That at least would avoid any negative relation hits from actually capturing/sinking them.
After all, it was an "agreed duel". But at sea....

 

[Jason]

Well, I think this issue was triggered when I was "recognized in shore before I got the LOM.

 

[Jason]

So more on this. I found the two ships hoisted a pirate flag, and took them. Hoisted a French Flag landed and before I got of the beach I was recognized a again. Started a save game before being recognized avoided most conversations. Sold ships sold stuff went to tavern encountered a captain who threatened me in the tavern. When I went to the bar and asked if he new anyone who was a afraid to sail alone, he said he didn't want to help me because I had done so much harm to his country. Again I have a French LOM. Two questions, Is the way this is supposed to work and if it is, are you sure that this is what we want where having a national LOM doesn't impact any of this?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

@Jason, when you have a LoM, you should have at least 0 relation points with a nation.
If I understand correctly, in your case, you actually have negative points with France in the Nations Relations interface, don't you?
It does sound like something weird is going on.

Do you have a savegame affected by "France being friendly but not quite"?
And ideally also one before you got the LoM, so I can complete the sidequest that gave you the LoM and therefore double-check that code is actually doing it right?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

As per the next update, capturing/sinking those ships won't give you negative (nor positive) relation points anymore.
That should at least help a bit.

HOW did you get your LoM? If I understood correctly, you got it as a reward for delivering Virginie 'd Espivant.
Did I understand that correctly? Because I can find NO reference in the code to you getting a LoM through that sidequest.

In the meantime, I'm awaiting a savegame from @Jason to test the uncooperative barman.
Until I get that, there is nothing more I can do.

 

[Jason]

Here is there save in the tavern. I am now off to try the newest upload. I got my LOM by buying it from the French Governor on Martinique.

After I took those two French ships I have -62 with France which probably explains the tavern keeper.

I am about to load the next version and start on that.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

AH! I think I know what happened:
- You were hostile to France
- Came into Martinique under a false French flag
- Captain on shore (part of the Crewmembers on Shore mod) recognized you for this and challenged you to a sea battle
- You became friendly with France through the Virginie sidequest
- You then bought a LoM with France as well
- After setting sail, that captain showed up as French enemy because he "doesn't know" that the situation has changed
- When you sank/captured that ship, that was technically not a legal attack against a ship of a nation you were friendly with.
That is considered a nasty Act of Piracy, which turned France back to hostile.
- Next thing you know, the tavern keeper doesn't want to deal with you because you're an enemy. Again.

In other words: A lot of game system doing exactly what they are meant to do, but making for quite a silly chain of events.
That chain should be broken as per the latest update because that particular enemy captain now no longer will trigger any relation changes.
For details of what else may need to be done on this, see here: Medium Priority - Sea Relations: Improve Consequences from Sea Battles | Page 3 | PiratesAhoy!

 

[Jason]

Ok fine except for one thing Pieter. I did not, repeat NOT play the Virginie side quest. I have never played that side quest.