Trade passports

[Grey Roger]

This is the EITC official in Port Royale:

He can't tell West from East. That's because he uses the same dialog as the Dutch West India Company official in Willemstad. Also, there's only one trade passport (not including the EITC one specifically for use in "Hoist The Colours"), so the one from the East India Trading Company also says it's from the West India Company.

And merchants from anywhere other than Britain and Holland don't have anywhere to buy their licences. Especially those who are hostile to both Britain and Holland, which by default means French and Spanish merchants.

I'm adding a Spanish office in Cartagena, and have also worked out a more general dialog which takes account of the official's nationality so that he introduces himself as being from the relevant company. Next step is to make different licences for each nation, each with a different description. Of course, that means any code which checks for "Trade_Passport" will also need to check for the different national variants.

And then I'll maybe add offices for French and Portuguese companies in Port au Prince and Sao Jorge, if I can find somewhere in Sao Jorge to house the Portuguese one. (Port au Prince is a modified version of Sao Jorge. The church is replaced by the town hall, the town hall becomes the shipyard, and the shipyard building is unused, providing a perfect home for the French West India Company.)

 

[Levis]

Maybe make the code in a way that the item has a attribute which is checked instead. That way it's easier to later add more types of passports.
Also can you remind me again what does a trade passport do?

I don't remember from the top of my head which nation santiago is but that town also defently needs some more locations added, so if possible maybe add it there?

Also I'm curious what happens if the player takes over the town or sets the town to another nation? Does the dialog check to see which nation it has to give a passport for?

 

[Grey Roger]

Santiago is Spanish. Spain's office is in Cartagena, a lot more appropriate as it was the main port of interest for one of the treasure fleets. Santiago and Havana could perhaps do with some more door "reload" locators and things behind the doors, but they probably won't be trade offices.

The new dialog checks the character's nationality, and as none of the trade officials have the "questchar" attribute, if the town changes nation then they should change as well.
EDIT: And that has just caused me to edit the dialog a bit. Because if the town now belongs to Pirates, you're not getting a licence which is supposed to show that you're not a pirate!

The trade passport costs you 1,000,000 gold and allows you to amass as much money as you can without the crew becoming envious. You also get better prices in stores.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Next step is to make different licences for each nation, each with a different description. Of course, that means any code which checks for "Trade_Passport" will also need to check for the different national variants.

If the items don't offer different functionality, is it really worthwhile to have separate items?

Also, the WIC officer sells passports to anyone regardless of nationality.
Only reason it was a Dutch thing is because @Bartolomeu o Portugues had already added the officer for his storyline and so it was easy to tie in with.

And then I'll maybe add offices for French and Portuguese companies in Port au Prince and Sao Jorge, if I can find somewhere in Sao Jorge to house the Portuguese one.

If you're going down that path anyway, how about American and Swedish ones?
Maybe consider just adding it to the Emissary dialog?

And that has just caused me to edit the dialog a bit. Because if the town now belongs to Pirates, you're not getting a licence which is supposed to show that you're not a pirate!

The trade passport costs you 1,000,000 gold and allows you to amass as much money as you can without the crew becoming envious. You also get better prices in stores.

Yup.
It was mainly added just to get rid of the "UNLIMITED_LOOT" toggle and fit that into the gameplay instead.

 

[Grey Roger]

If the items don't offer different functionality, is it really worthwhile to have separate items?

If it means the East India Company isn't handing out documents claiming to be from the West India Company, yes.

Also, the WIC officer sells passports to anyone regardless of nationality.
Only reason it was a Dutch thing is because @Bartolomeu o Portugues had already added the officer for his storyline and so it was easy to tie in with.

All the other officers will sell a passport to anyone who can get into port. They just sell the correct one according to their nation. (Incidentally, if there's one nation who should be selling licences, it's Spain. At the height of its power, which was "Early Explorers" and "Spanish Main" periods, the Casa de Contratación really did control Spanish trade - you needed a licence from them if you were to trade legally at all. I don't plan to make Spanish stores refuse to trade with you if you don't have a Spanish licence, and anyway they had less influence later on, but it does mean that the normal benefits associated with a merchant licence are particularly appropriate to Spain.)

If you're going down that path anyway, how about American and Swedish ones?
Maybe consider just adding it to the Emissary dialog?

Once I've got the French trade office working, I'll think about those. The American one can probably go on Eleuthera, but should only exist in "Revolutions" and "Napoleonic" periods. The Swedish one will have to go in the emissary's dialog. Very likely the Portuguese one will need to go in the governor's or emissary's dialog too because there's nowhere suitable in Sao Jorge. All the decent looking buildings are already in use and the Casa da Índia is not going into a thatched-roof shack!

 

[Pieter Boelen]

If it means the East India Company isn't handing out documents claiming to be from the West India Company, yes.

That's probably why the EITC Officer handed out the quest-version of the passport for a while.

Otherwise, just call it "Merchant Passport" and don't bother mentioning what nation it's from.
Same logic as for our new loading screens: what isn't mentioned cannot be wrong either.

Once I've got the French trade office working, I'll think about those. The American one can probably go on Eleuthera, but should only exist in "Revolutions" and "Napoleonic" periods. The Swedish one will have to go in the emissary's dialog. Very likely the Portuguese one will need to go in the governor's or emissary's dialog too because there's nowhere suitable in Sao Jorge. All the decent looking buildings are already in use and the Casa da Índia is not going into a thatched-roof shack!

Since there's only one Emissary dialog file; once you add the functionality in there, it's immediately there for all "irregular" nations.
That covers USA and Sweden; and also Holland plus Portugal in Early Explorers.
it might not be the prettiest solution; but it's certainly a simple one.

 

[Grey Roger]

That's probably why the EITC Officer handed out the quest-version of the passport for a while.

Otherwise, just call it "Merchant Passport" and don't bother mentioning what nation it's from.
Same logic as for our new loading screens: what isn't mentioned cannot be wrong either.

Loading screens are big so we probably don't want lots of them for different occasions, though that didn't stop me from creating an alternative one for St. Pierre because the previous one was wrong in any period except "Napoleonic". Alternative trade passports are just a few lines of extra code. Why make them vague when we can make them correct? (Anyway, I've already done the work, it wasn't difficult. It just needs a bit of testing.)

Since there's only one Emissary dialog file; once you add the functionality in there, it's immediately there for all "irregular" nations.
That covers USA and Sweden; and also Holland plus Portugal in Early Explorers.
it might not be the prettiest solution; but it's certainly a simple one.

The USA has no emissary. Emissaries are for nations which have no islands; the USA has Eleuthera. Portugal's emissary shows up in "Revolutions" and "Napoleonic"; it's England that has the other emissary in "Early Explorers". But I'm half inclined not to bother with trade passports for anyone other than Spain and Portugal in "Early Explorers" because other characters have nowhere to trade unless they pay for peace with Spain, and in that case they can get a Spanish trade licence. (Which, in reality, is exactly what they'd need to do.)

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Alternative trade passports are just a few lines of extra code. Why make them vague when we can make them correct? (Anyway, I've already done the work, it wasn't difficult. It just needs a bit of testing.)

As you wish.

But to answer your question:
Making them vague isn't incorrect.
Having separate ones suggests there is extra gameplay meaning to them existing though.

The USA has no emissary. Emissaries are for nations which have no islands; the USA has Eleuthera.

Ah, true. Slipped my mind.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

Loading screens are big so we probably don't want lots of them for different occasions, though that didn't stop me from creating an alternative one for St. Pierre because the previous one was wrong in any period except "Napoleonic". Alternative trade passports are just a few lines of extra code. Why make them vague when we can make them correct? (Anyway, I've already done the work, it wasn't difficult. It just needs a bit of testing.)

Agreed. Plus having different Trade passports makes the game a bit more "immerse". It's just a little more special, and it doesn't need many resources.

But to answer your question:
Making them vague isn't incorrect.
Having separate ones suggests there is extra gameplay meaning to them existing though.

Or they are different just for world building purposes.
Making it seem like they are actually from their respective nations.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Personally I'm no fan of "fake" immersion.
That's actually one of the reasons I don't much like those citizen rumours about the various important characters in the towns.
There's all sorts of things said about these characters, but it ends up MEANING NOTHING.

If it were up to me, my choice would be for something to be as real as can be; or to not be there at all.

But of course it ISN'T up to me.
And it isn't like that right now either.
So doesn't make much difference one way or the other...

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

I would like to politely disagree. Just because you have some limitations doesn't mean you should drop an idea completely.
I happen to like the rumours. They may not have an affect most of the time, but it makes the random characters feel a bit more alive.
And at the end of the day they are rumours. Who knows if they are actually true?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I would like to politely disagree.

Free world. You're not forced to see things my way.

I happen to like the rumours. They may not have an affect most of the time, but it makes the random characters feel a bit more alive.

That's probably also why you reckon Witcher 3 has A LOT of choice and consequence; and I still find it only really limited.
Because the consequence is implied through dialog and quest texts; but doesn't hugely affect the gameplay or main storyline progress.
The biggest one is the fate of that one village (you know the one); but even then, whatever happens to it, you barely have reason to ever go back there anyway.

It seems to me that the game development world still has a lot of room for expanding in the future.
Maybe they could reduce the fussing over every graphical pixel; and put more effort in the non-linearity and consequence of the story progressions.
Now THAT would be something!

I'm thinking of stuff on the level of our own Jack Sparrow storyline, where you can completely bypass the events of Curse of the Black Pearl and end up in a completely alternate history.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

Free world. You're not forced to see things my way.

That's probably also why you reckon Witcher 3 has A LOT of choice and consequence; and I still find it only really limited.
Because the consequence is implied through dialog and quest texts; but doesn't hugely affect the gameplay or main storyline progress.
The biggest one is the fate of that one village (you know the one); but even then, whatever happens to it, you barely have reason to ever go back there anyway.

The way I see it you're one person, and so you don't have to see everything that happens.
But I wouldn't mind more viewable consequences as well.

It seems to me that the game development world still has a lot of room for expanding in the future.
Maybe they could reduce the fussing over every graphical pixel; and put more effort in the non-linearity and consequence of the story progressions.
Now THAT would be something!

Certainly there's always room for improvement. Agreed.

I'm thinking of stuff on the level of our own Jack Sparrow storyline, where you can completely bypass the events of Curse of the Black Pearl and end up in a completely alternate history.

Indeed, I really enjoyed this part of the questline.
Since you brought up the Witcher, the second game has something like what you describe.
In the second chapter the area you explore, people you meet, the quests you do; are dependant on one of your choices in Ch. 1. You want to achieve the same goal, but your perspective is from the opposite side.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Since you brought up the Witcher, the second game has something like what you describe.
In the second chapter the area you explore, people you meet, the quests you do; are dependant on one of your choices in Ch. 1. You want to achieve the same goal, but your perspective is from the opposite side.

That's something! Sounds good indeed.
Reminds me a bit of the intended difference between Nathaniel and Danielle in the original game.
Or the actual difference between Alexios and Cassandra in Assassin's Creed Odyssey, perhaps?

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

I don't know exactly what they were going to with Danielle.
But I don't think it is like Alexios and Kassandra.
The quests you play there are the same, your main character changes, but your options are the same.

What I refer to is more like the Hoist the Colours.
A different way to achieve the same goal.
A big part of the story changes.

W2 has three chapters (excluding prologue and epilogue), with the second one being the biggest.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I don't know exactly what they were going to with Danielle.

We can only guess.
If I understand @Grey Roger's take on code archaeology properly, it seems Danielle actually would have had a bit of a different story.

What I refer to is more like the Hoist the Colours.
A different way to achieve the same goal.
A big part of the story changes.

Even better!
Verrry nice.

 

[Grey Roger]

Having separate ones suggests there is extra gameplay meaning to them existing though.

And perhaps one day there could be... (No, I have no plans along those lines. Perhaps someone might like to make different merchant licences do different things.)

If it were up to me, my choice would be for something to be as real as can be; or to not be there at all.

You mean like different nations having their own licences rather than everyone issuing the same basic document?

Reminds me a bit of the intended difference between Nathaniel and Danielle in the original game.

Try playing as Danielle in "Tales of a Sea Hawk" and see what happens. As well as making a very visible difference to one key character, I found some of the dialog intended for that alternative story and used a few lines from it.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

We can only guess.
If I understand @Grey Roger's take on code archaeology properly, it seems Danielle actually would have had a bit of a different story.

Then perhaps it was closer to W2 and HtC.
If only it wasn't cut.
But...

Try playing as Danielle in "Tales of a Sea Hawk" and see what happens. As well as making a very visible difference to one key character, I found some of the dialog intended for that alternative story and used a few lines from it.

@Grey Roger did something on this.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

You mean like different nations having their own licences rather than everyone issuing the same basic document?

Nope, that's not what I meant at all.
Different definitions of "real".

There is "real" as "tying into real history through correct details".
And there is "real" as "tying in with the game world, with every different detail having some sort of in-game (functional) meaning".

And perhaps one day there could be... (No, I have no plans along those lines. Perhaps someone might like to make different merchant licences do different things.)

I'll concede defeat.

Try playing as Danielle in "Tales of a Sea Hawk" and see what happens. As well as making a very visible difference to one key character, I found some of the dialog intended for that alternative story and used a few lines from it.

Verrry nicely done!
Really cool that is actually a fully functional feature now.

 

[Grey Roger]

Door icons and fast travel added...