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Specific for Officers improvements.

LamAnd

LamAnd

Landlubber
Storm Modder
There's supposedly some people working on officer improvement all the different ideas regarding officers only and their functions and such like.

The specific skill they should affect and that and what changes that are in testing.


The Bugtracker post on this <a href="http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?autocom=tracker&showissue=12" target="_blank">http://forum.piratesahoy.net//index.php?au...mp;showissue=12</a>
 
Brainstorm and gathering of different ideas. mine and others

Skill control
Say that your max effective skill is 6 while in those things that are related to the ship and the crew so your meele could be 10.
but leadership is topped in effectiveness by you at 6 the last 4 need to come from say 2 officers or just one.

Limit Officer perks to type specifics.

Ship Control management

Class 7 ships need no officers class 6 need one and then a exponential growth up to rank 1 ships that need 1 Captain = You and 9 officers

7 - You
6 - You+1
5 - You+2
4 - You+3
3 - You+5
2 - You+7
1 - You+9


Functions and management.

OFFIC_TYPE_FIRSTMATE functions = Automanagement of active party

ch.reputation = "None";
ch.experience = "0";
ch.skill.Leadership = "4";
ch.skill.Fencing = "1";
ch.skill.Sailing = "2";
ch.skill.Accuracy = "0";
ch.skill.Cannons = "0";
ch.skill.Grappling = "0";
ch.skill.Repair = "0";
ch.skill.Defence = "0";
ch.skill.Commerce = "0";
ch.skill.Sneak = "1";

(Npchar,"perks.list.SharedExperience");
(Npchar,"perks.list.BasicBattleState");
(Npchar,"perks.list.AdvancedBattleState");
(Npchar,"perks.list.ShipDefenseProfessional");
(Npchar,"perks.list.IronWill");

OFFIC_TYPE_DOCTOR functions = Health and regen

ch.reputation = "None";
ch.experience = "0";
ch.skill.Leadership = "0";
ch.skill.Fencing = "0";
ch.skill.Sailing = "0";
ch.skill.Accuracy = "0";
ch.skill.Cannons = "0";
ch.skill.Grappling = "0";
ch.skill.Repair = "0";
ch.skill.Defence = "4";
ch.skill.Commerce = "0";
ch.skill.Sneak = "1";

(Npchar,"perks.list.SharedExperience");
(Npchar,"perks.list.BasicBattleState");
(Npchar,"perks.list.AdvancedBattleState");
(Npchar,"perks.list.ShipDefenseProfessional");

OFFIC_TYPE_CARPENTER functions = Ship repair

ch.reputation = "None";
ch.experience = "0";
ch.skill.Leadership = "0";
ch.skill.Fencing = "0";
ch.skill.Sailing = "0";
ch.skill.Accuracy = "0";
ch.skill.Cannons = "0";
ch.skill.Grappling = "0";
ch.skill.Repair = "4";
ch.skill.Defence = "0";
ch.skill.Commerce = "0";
ch.skill.Sneak = "1";

(Npchar,"perks.list.SharedExperience");
(Npchar,"perks.list.LightRepair");
(Npchar,"perks.list.InstantRepair");

OFFIC_TYPE_BOATSWAIN functions = Crewmorale and boarders

ch.reputation = "None";
ch.experience = "0";
ch.skill.Leadership = "3";
ch.skill.Fencing = "2";
ch.skill.Sailing = "0";
ch.skill.Accuracy = "0";
ch.skill.Cannons = "0";
ch.skill.Grappling = "3";
ch.skill.Repair = "0";
ch.skill.Defence = "2";
ch.skill.Commerce = "0";
ch.skill.Sneak = "1";

(Npchar,"perks.list.SharedExperience");
(Npchar,"perks.List.BasicDefense");
(Npchar,"perks.List.AdvancedDefense");
(Npchar,"perks.List.Toughness"); //MAXIMUS 20.09.2006
(Npchar,"perks.List.SwordplayProfessional");
(Npchar,"perks.List.CriticalHit");
(Npchar,"perks.List.Gunman");
(Npchar,"perks.List.GunProfessional");
(Npchar,"perks.list.LongRangeGrappling");
(Npchar,"perks.list.GrapplingProfessional");
(Npchar,"perks.list.IronWill");

OFFIC_TYPE_ABORDAGE functions = Boarding and Guard duty

ch.reputation = "None";
ch.experience = "0";
ch.skill.Leadership = "1";
ch.skill.Fencing = "3";
ch.skill.Sailing = "0";
ch.skill.Accuracy = "0";
ch.skill.Cannons = "0";
ch.skill.Grappling = "3";
ch.skill.Repair = "0";
ch.skill.Defence = "3";
ch.skill.Commerce = "0";
ch.skill.Sneak = "1";

(Npchar,"perks.list.SharedExperience");
(Npchar,"perks.List.BasicDefense");
(Npchar,"perks.List.AdvancedDefense");
(Npchar,"perks.List.Toughness"); //MAXIMUS 20.09.2006
(Npchar,"perks.List.SwordplayProfessional");
(Npchar,"perks.List.CriticalHit");
(Npchar,"perks.List.Gunman");
(Npchar,"perks.List.GunProfessional");

OFFIC_TYPE_NAVIGATOR functions = Sailto Functions Route to island or something like it

ch.reputation = "None";
ch.experience = "0";
ch.skill.Leadership = "0";
ch.skill.Fencing = "1";
ch.skill.Sailing = "6";
ch.skill.Accuracy = "0";
ch.skill.Cannons = "0";
ch.skill.Grappling = "0";
ch.skill.Repair = "0";
ch.skill.Defence = "0";
ch.skill.Commerce = "0";
ch.skill.Sneak = "1";

(Npchar,"perks.list.SharedExperience");
(Npchar,"perks.list.ShipSpeedUp");
(Npchar,"perks.list.ShipTurnRateUp");
(Npchar,"perks.list.StormProfessional");
(Npchar,"perks.list.Turn180");
(Npchar,"perks.list.SandbankManeuver");

OFFIC_TYPE_CANNONEER functions = Cannons and cannon accuracy

ch.reputation = "None";
ch.experience = "0";
ch.skill.Leadership = "0";
ch.skill.Fencing = "1";
ch.skill.Sailing = "0";
ch.skill.Accuracy = "3";
ch.skill.Cannons = "3";
ch.skill.Grappling = "0";
ch.skill.Repair = "0";
ch.skill.Defence = "0";
ch.skill.Commerce = "0";
ch.skill.Sneak = "1";

(Npchar,"perks.list.SharedExperience");
(Npchar,"perks.list.FastReload");
(Npchar,"perks.list.ImmediateReload");
(Npchar,"perks.list.HullDamageUp");
(Npchar,"perks.list.SailsDamageUp");
(Npchar,"perks.list.CrewDamageUp");
(Npchar,"perks.list.LongRangeShoot");
(Npchar,"perks.list.CriticalShoot");
(Npchar,"perks.list.CannonProfessional");

OFFIC_TYPE_QMASTER functions = Goods, Rations and divide the plunder

ch.reputation = "None";
ch.experience = "0";
ch.skill.Leadership = "0";
ch.skill.Fencing = "1";
ch.skill.Sailing = "0";
ch.skill.Accuracy = "0";
ch.skill.Cannons = "0";
ch.skill.Grappling = "0";
ch.skill.Repair = "0";
ch.skill.Defence = "0";
ch.skill.Commerce = "4";
ch.skill.Sneak = "3";

(Npchar,"perks.list.SharedExperience");
(Npchar,"perks.list.Trustworthy");
(Npchar,"perks.list.BasicCommerce");
(Npchar,"perks.list.AdvancedCommerce");
(Npchar,"perks.list.BasicLandOwner"); // GZ

OFFIC_TYPE_CAPNAVY functions = Specific captain For escort ships and such.

ch.reputation = "None";
ch.experience = "0";
ch.skill.Leadership = "6";
ch.skill.Fencing = "6";
ch.skill.Sailing = "6";
ch.skill.Accuracy = "6";
ch.skill.Cannons = "6";
ch.skill.Grappling = "6";
ch.skill.Repair = "6";
ch.skill.Defence = "6";
ch.skill.Commerce = "6";
ch.skill.Sneak = "6";

(Npchar,"perks.list.SharedExperience");
(Npchar,"perks.list.InstantBoarding");
(Npchar,"perks.list.ShipSpeedUp");
(Npchar,"perks.list.ShipTurnRateUp");
(Npchar,"perks.list.StormProfessional");
(Npchar,"perks.list.Turn180");
(Npchar,"perks.list.SandbankManeuver");
(Npchar,"perks.list.SailingProfessional");
(Npchar,"perks.list.LongRangeGrappling");
(Npchar,"perks.list.GrapplingProfessional");
(Npchar,"perks.list.IronWill");
(Npchar,"perks.list.LightRepair");
(Npchar,"perks.list.InstantRepair");
(Npchar,"perks.list.BasicBattleState");
(Npchar,"perks.list.AdvancedBattleState");
(Npchar,"perks.list.ShipDefenseProfessional");

Something like that i thought the officers should be limited to their type of function
with perks and such. but i can't find my way around in code so im going to sleep now or ill try..
 
I put it in the bug tracker, and I'll put it here too.

For God's sake, PUT A TOGGLE ON IT! And design the toggle in, don't add it on afterward. And for good measure, fix it so we don't have to start a new game if we turn it on or off.

I have enough damn problems finding three officers to fill specific functions on my ship, and with auto skilling I can't tailor them to suit my needs. There have been times that the game went on long enough that I had all the skills I needed in some area before ever finding an officer with them.

Besides, officers don't cost near enough. They should be so expensive that you can't afford more than a couple. Managing perks on more than a very few officers becomes a nightmare.

I'm not saying don't do the mod. There will always be people who love the idea.

Hook
 
the idea behind this is to make officers useful for the role they should some of it has been done in Lai_createofficer.c some of that should just be improved then but yes a toggle is a must otherwise it would get annoying if you wanted to try something and you would have to start a new game.
but im just gathering ideas and such i haven't got the knowledge to do it.

i think you can adjust the initial form the officers should have in Lai_creatofficer.c and which perks they should have at what level when hiring
 
Two weeks ago I finished some work on a new officer system ; it included officers contributing to only specific skills/perks, and even if they're not currently in your active 3-mates-for-shore list.

I had written a draft to be posted on the forum, as well then a .rar file for testing that I would have put on the FTP for those who would be interested.

This mod was meant to be experimental and not fully-completed, for example it would require some extra work creating a nice interface where you could set the officer to different position onboard your ship. And maybe some other adjustements (whether this type of officer should indeed contribute to this skill/perk, or contribute to other as well, things like that).


I didn't post anything thought, because as soon as my new officer system was finished I began to dislike it. I've paused coding right now as my hollidays are over, and I need some input of a friend of mine that had some good ideas on how to change the officer system. But if you're interested, I can release the first system anyway - for testing purpose, not for the next Build release.
 
<!--quoteo(post=315437:date=Apr 23 2009, 02:20 PM:name=a simple virtual sailor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (a simple virtual sailor @ Apr 23 2009, 02:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=315437"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->for example it would require some extra work creating a nice interface where you could set the officer to different position onboard your ship.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, you can do that already in the officer dialog. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> I'm not sure what effect it has in the game.

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=315441:date=Apr 23 2009, 04:54 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Apr 23 2009, 04:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=315441"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=315437:date=Apr 23 2009, 02:20 PM:name=a simple virtual sailor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (a simple virtual sailor @ Apr 23 2009, 02:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=315437"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->for example it would require some extra work creating a nice interface where you could set the officer to different position onboard your ship.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, you can do that already in the officer dialog. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> I'm not sure what effect it has in the game.

Hook
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yes, actually in my mod I did re-use this dialog option for that purpose Hook <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />


Before that, the only effect it had was changing the character's 'officer type', but that was barely just a title in the menu.
 
i would like to look at it and see how you did and screw around with possibility's.

Could we use the passenger interface and lock 9 or 12 of the slots and fix Officer type to specific slots?

i learn from seeing others work aswell
 
Could Officer funtion and role be made into 2 separet files? for improvements and such so it just was to files that it ran if the mod is on and ignored then if turned on.
 
Could you at least post your write-up, a simple virtual sailor?
And if you'd be willing to allow me, I'd like to include your code in the Development Resources too.
It'd be nice to see what happens when using it and we might be able to generate some comments on how to make it better.

I do see a lot of room for improvement when it comes to officer handling, but I suspect we need to do some more experimenting and brainstorming,
to ensure that we come up with a system that is more realistic, but also interesting and fun and not annoying.

<!--quoteo(post=315441:date=Apr 23 2009, 09:54 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hook @ Apr 23 2009, 09:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=315441"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, you can do that already in the officer dialog. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> I'm not sure what effect it has in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Ehm... none. Apart from making someone a gunner to automatically restock you with ammunition upon visiting your ship.
This dialog was made with the idea that it might one day be useful for a mod like the one proposed in this thread. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
i just had an idea for the interface use the passenger interface to and make an addional that only holds officers and captains
and instead of the 4 slots them see if it can be made to a slot for each officer_type.
so passenger is companions and quest people.

VERY IMPORTENT THAT WE CAN TURN THIS OFFICER Funtios ON/OFF in game.
 
I think the original idea was that your three officer slots would be the officers that accompany you ashore.
The other officers ALL contribute their skills, whether they're "active" or not.

Then as far as different ship classes are concerned, how about making it so that the efficiency of the ship depends on the reguired skill value based on the ship class relative to the total skill number in your passenger list (excluding prisoners of course).
The required skill value for a certain ship class could be higher than 10, so you'd need officers to operate on full effiency.

Imagine your class 1 ship has a required leadership value of 30, you'd only be operating at 1/3 effiency if you have 10 in leadership but have no officers.
 
I had a thought about the interface thing. Couldn't we use the passenger interface as an template for it.
instead of your landing party its 12 slots for officers and that then makes their attributes effective.

a little like this in looks

Passenger/Officers or what ever should be called

The officers like in passenger



slot 1 slot 4 slot 7 slot 10


slot 2 slot 5 slot 8 slot 11


slot 3 slot 6 slot 9 slot 12


perks that can be used and overall skill level
 
My suggestions at the moment:
- Have ALL officers contribute their skills, but only those skills that are relevant to their officer type
- Require a certain skill level for certain ship types that can go (far) over 10, requiring you to get officers to operate on full efficiency
- Ability to change officer types if you need more skills in a certain area (already possible)
- Officers automatically auto-skill mainly in those skills that are relevant for their job
- Being able to promote crewmembers to officers (with real low skills) who will eventually learn their job
 
I think Maximus was working toward this idea at one time. Originally if you hired an officer you'd have to assign him to one of your officer slots. Maximus changed it where when you hired an officer, he was auto-assigned and the original officer in that slot would wander off. That annoyed me enough that I had that code disabled in my game. It's gotten complicated enough that I haven't tried fixing it in Build 14, and am back to being annoyed by it.

I like the concept of having specific jobs for officers. Finding them is another matter.

Does anyone have any idea how HARD it is to find good officers now? I don't think I've seen a first mate at all in my current game, and my character is level 21. I've only seen a couple of gunners, and one navigator. I haven't seen any doctors, either. There are a lot of quartermasters wandering around out of jobs, looking for work. In other games, I never see any quartermasters.

At the current pay levels you never have to worry about getting everyone paid, including officers. Except Pieter, who got a mutiny because he didn't pay his crew. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> But the pay levels are WAY too low. And even at the low pay levels, are you sure you can afford all those extra officers?

What are you going to do? Make everyone you meet a hireable officer and cut their price? Make a pool of officers you can meet somewhere, making it trivial to find one?

I think this will be a fun mod to write. It has a lot of interesting possibilities. It's going to take a lot of playtesting for balance, which shouldn't be a problem. It will be a whole new mini-game. It will be an incredible pain in the butt if you're just trying to play through the main quest and suddenly find that you need a man o war near the end. People will love it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Hook
 
i think the entire officer create need to be reworked too
but just hire an QM change him to first mate thats what i do atm.
 
<!--quoteo(post=315605:date=Apr 24 2009, 11:15 AM:name=LamAnd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LamAnd @ Apr 24 2009, 11:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=315605"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i think the entire officer create need to be reworked too<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I couldn't agree more. A lot of code was changed to make officers fit a specific type, and it ends up recreating characters, often several times. This messed up my quest pirate code, where the pirates were generated properly and you'd have the same character with the same level and skills whether you fought him on the sea or on the deck or hired him as an officer.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but just hire an QM change him to first mate thats what i do atm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's just a job title. The QM won't have the leadership skills you'd get on a first mate. It's the skills that make the officer, not the job title. Most of my current officers are specialists in *something* but have skills necessary for something else I need. My gunner might have high fencing skill, or my tough might have high leadership. I make use of this as much as possible.

Did you know that some people never hire officers at all? They only reason they might hire one is to sail a captured ship back to port, assuming they ever capture ships.

Other people make extensive use of the officers, even to the point of assigning additional officers to companion ships to get skills up. One thing that needs to be fixed is if you've assigned additional officers to a companion ship, if you sell that ship the extra officers are in a kind of limbo... they follow you around but you can't do anything with them. They need to be added back to your passenger list instead. I haven't tried this myself, but it's been reported elsewhere.

Hook
 
Hence my idea about separating officers and passenger in to different interface frames.

and make the ship selection part where you can select and add officers to other ships make it auto clear on ship sell.
 
How about countering the lack of hireable officers by being able to promote crewmembers to officers?
They'll start out with REAL low skills (0 or could we even make them <i>negative</i>?) but they'll learn eventually.
The Auto Skill System should also make sure that officers gain experience mainly in the areas related to their job.
 
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