• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

Sid...What did you do??????

Wow !

I just bought the game a few days ago and had really good `14-hour` run on the first day, and already by the the end of this I found the game repetitive.

I am practically sure that I have now mastered the game, having a super ship with all upgrades, specialists, unique items and romance to be had. I can't remember which level I am at but it must be close to the hardest one as I have jumped several times anfter dividing.

I too was (and still am) a huge fan of the original, but as happy as I am that they have stayed true to the legacy, I must admit that something seems cheeky about this new millenium version.

I thought it blasfemic to voice my discontemnt, but found this thread and am now gonna speak my mind.

Generally:
I bought the limited collectors version, 'cause thats the kind of pirate i am, especially pleased to read about the exclusive theme packs that I would find included in this version. What exactly are those ? Someone please tell me, 'cause I don't see 'em.

Naming Saves:
Now, we can all agree that the issue about naming your saves is no big deal. So why leave it out ??? Because this is a remake, and not a brand new game, it is `super-important` to keep the game userfriendly for the die hard fans which are your main target group. I work in multimedia production and it is not a hard feature to make !! Trust me. Just a cheap thing which is stupid to exclude.

Ingame language:
Sid Meier's Pirates! have always been an `open-ended` adventure game, which simply centered on the carribean interactions of your character, whether it be `battles-at`-sea, trading in goods and plunder, treasurefinding missions and finally your social agenda. Most of these elements are kept reassuringly simple and does not require a large amount of `speech-interaction`. Cool! we don't need them. However... The part that could easily benefit by recognizable language is the social (roleplaying) part, and the sound base here is slightly disappointing at best, dull, repetitive and outright annoying at worst. The development team had four specific languages to work with..... they chose not to. Time was a factor, some of you `beta-testers` say. Ok, but they still had time to make extremely pointless eastereggs ??! What am I paying a lot of money for here ? Captain Shadows say the time would have been taken away from the graphic details. Hey, I could live without dolphins and the quarter of the spanish main that no one really needs, if it had some diverse dialogue.

`Time-warp`:
Again, because this is `open-ended`, it will and some point become repetitive. Therefore a timewarp is a simple, `user-friendly` feature, which - sorry Captain Shadow - WAS in the original. For those you say that "it is in keeping witn the realism of the game", I must say NONSENCE. Where does your limits go ?? Most parts of this game is NOT realistic, its a game, so that is really not an argument.

Graphics:
All said, I love the new and updated graphics which i think is perfectly in tune with my expectations and the evolution of `computer-power` and graphics design. Love it.

Gameplay:
As I said, I am truly happy that they have stayed true to the original gameplay, and only developed on the gameplay where needed. I am talking about the `ship-upgrades`, specialists and unique items here, as well as the sneak and dance features which all in all are the only real changes in the new version of the game.

Sid:
My point is that Pirates! is one of the most awaited `game-sequals` ever. This because the original, which was totally worthy of Sid's name, was so `open-ended` for the simple reason that you got a game that you could play over and over and over again.
This new version is just not up to the new millenium code of Sid Meier and should only carry his name out of respect for the original creator, not as an indicator for his participation in the gamplay- and `concept-development`, because I no longer see his magic touch on the game's upgrades.


damn, I apparently had more to say than I thought.


Strangelove
 
I think it's very worthy of his name.

As a beta tester, I don't remember there ever being any mention of a time crunch with regards to the firaxian language. I am pretty sure they intended it to be that way from the start. I like it.

I don't remember time warp in the oringal commodore version, Apple version, or the PC version. I am pretty sure I don't remember it in the Gold version either. Didn't play the Sega version much so my memory is foggy there. I don't mind the long sails. There are only a few times through a career where I have to do it. Maybe once per cruise... It kinda adds some drama to me. Sure makes me think about it before I head to Vera Cruz.

Yep, it's repetitive. Just like the original. When I played the original for "14 hours" straight, I was burned out and needed a break. This game is the same way. But, after that break is over... it calls you back. Just like the original.

Game save? Yeah, that's pretty lame.

Not blasphemy at all to voice a negative opinion. I'm honestly sorry that it did not live up to your expectations. As a huge fan of the original, I think it's a perfect "remake". I don't think it's everything it could be, I just think it's everything a remake should be. Now... I hope they expand on the idea and give us an expansion pack with more content or something. Let's go BEYOND the remake..!
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-Strangelove`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Strangelove)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->`Time-warp`:
Again, because this is `open-ended`, it will and some point become repetitive. Therefore a timewarp is a simple, `user-friendly` feature, which - sorry Captain Shadow - WAS in the original.  
[/quote]

Uhh, no it wasn't. I have the original (as in boxes, disks and docs) C64, Atari ST, Apple II, Amiga and PC versions, there was no time warp feature.

Your other points are valid though. But I'm happy with it, I'm a very casual player who has played the game every night since I got it and haven't come close to completing everything yet, so it will take me a while before it gets old. Hell, I played the original game for almost 17 years...
 
regarding Timewarp

<!--`QuoteBegin-sundog`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sundog)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Uhh, no it wasn't. I have the original (as in boxes, disks and docs) C64, Atari ST, Apple II, Amiga and PC versions, there was no time warp feature.
[/quote]

Uhhh, ohhh,....yes it was.
I have played the original (might have been gold), for many, many years on my mac, and there is definately a timewarp. I think it was the `T-key`, but I am not sure. Don't have my mac anymore, though, so I can't check. But I am just as sure about that as I am about the sun rising in the morning, so....

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />

Strangelove
 
You're right, Strangelove, there was a time compression, and it <b>was</b> the T key. See part II of the game manual.

I also concur with almost everything you said in your original post. The game <b>is</b> repetitive, the Firaxian is pointless and were it not for the original game, no one would give a fuzzy rat's tail for this edition of the game.

Also, good ideas that were implemented in other games were neglected. Take "Cutthroats", for example: You could worsen your reputation by wantonly killing hostages that had already surrendered, thus frightening the Spaniards to a point that they would surrender more easily. Or, if you overdid it, they would fight until their last man was dead for fear of falling into your hands. Why is this not implemented??!?

Why can't you use a ship of your fleet as a fire- ship to blow up enemy resistance? Henry Morgan did so during the sack of Maracaibo, why are you unable to do likewise? Only because the original "Pirates!" didn't allow this? How un- innovative!

Also: Why can you dig up all the treasures from other pirates, but are unable to bury a treasure of your own for financing your retirement??!?

All in all, the game is just a stale remake of the original with some glitzy graphics, and that's a bit thin to charge 50 Greenbacks for.
 
All right! Fred Bob be gittin' curious an' decided tew scrounge around down in his hold an' look what Fred Bob be a findin'! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_eek.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock:" border="0" alt="icon_eek.gif" />

<a href="http://pages.sbcglobal.net/fred_bob/_images/turbo.jpg" target="_blank"><b>Page from Pirates! Gold for Windows Manual</b></a> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />



Yarr! A picture be worth a thousand werds! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-Capn_Enigma`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Capn_Enigma)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the game is just a stale remake of the original with some glitzy graphics, and that's a bit thin to charge 50 Greenbacks for.[/quote] <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> Did ye get up on the wrong side of yer bunk this morning, Capn Enigma? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

Seriously, tho... Have you complained to Firaxis/Atari? Posting here of your displeasure *might* garner some attention, but while reps of the company DO come here and read and sometimes post, it's rare... Maybe somebody at Firaxis needs to know you're displeased.

It's a shame you don't like SMP... I'm enjoying the heck out of it... And I take a lot of pleasure in coming here to read all the opinions - even the dissenting ones - because it's INTERESTING to me what people think.

Is there *anything* about this game that you like? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" />
 
Re: regarding Timewarp

<!--`QuoteBegin-Strangelove`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Strangelove)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--`QuoteBegin-sundog`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sundog)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Uhh, no it wasn't. I have the original (as in boxes, disks and docs) C64, Atari ST, Apple II, Amiga and PC versions, there was no time warp feature.
[/quote]

Uhhh, ohhh,....yes it was.
I have played the original (might have been gold), for many, many years on my mac, and there is definately a timewarp. I think it was the `T-key`, but I am not sure. Don't have my mac anymore, though, so I can't check. But I am just as sure about that as I am about the sun rising in the morning, so....

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />

Strangelove[/quote]

Ahh, the MAC, we always seem to forget about that machine. Well, okay, the MAC version had a time warp. But the C64 version (which IS the original), and the others I listed did not.
 
I really miss the turbo button for sailing

If I remember right it was T in PIRATES! GOLD for the PC

I also miss a speed up option for all the mini games.
and for the ship batltle screen

All the Pirates game I played had a "turbo function" for long boring sailing.

I started playing pirates on c64 and played for years!
I don't believe I will play this one for more than days...

Polandor
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-Capn_Enigma`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Capn_Enigma)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also: Why can you dig up all the treasures from other pirates, but are unable to bury a treasure of your own for financing your retirement??!?[/quote]

Well, you DO put gold away for your retirement. It's your personal wealth. And it's figured into your fame rating which contributes towards your retirement rating. Granted, you don't really get to bury it - like you had the cave in Pirates! Gold, but it still counts towards your retirement. Certainly not a big issue with me. I DO think it would be fun to see that shiny stack though and I don't think it would have taken one of the art developers long to do a screen for it.

Yep, it IS a remake. Almost an exact one at that - with better graphics and some expanded features (and a few features removed for some reason...). But, I played the original a LONG time. And I'll play this one for a long time. If for no other reason than I get a prettier Pirates! fix.

I'm lovin' it. But YES, I do want to see more from the next version. I want a MUCH more in depth experience. And I think it can be done while retaining the "fun factor" that this one has.
 
The part I miss about the original is the actual SAILING. You had a decent paper map, hopefully some idea where you were (near a town) and some idea where you wanted to go (another town) the trick was to navigate yourself there.

That required a bit of guesswork, the occasional moments of taking a sun sighting to estimate your latitude and longitude, a little luck in not getting blown off course, and the ability to read the map and the features of the coast line to get where you wanted to be.

At lower difficulty levels you had a sailing master who would help you out (ie tell you where you were without the necessity to shoot the sun) and allow you to skip that part if you wanted, but you still needed to be able to read the map.

now: zoom out as far as you can, look for the helpful town names and named channels and straights, and if all else fails just press the map button. viola, instant location.

Nothing replaces the importance of sailing skill in the remake, and thats why the actual sailing part needs a turbo, because its nothing more then a boring time consuming part of the game that takes you to the fun action parts.

The inability to capture the treasure fleet in town, and the total absence of the silver train is also inexcusable. Some of the best moments of the original were having a beat up ship, low on crew, limping into a Spanish port and finding the silver train or treasure fleet in town, and fighting an against all odds battle to capture it. Sometimes you lost, and sometimes you won, but it was too good a prize and too rare an opportunity to pass up. So the game allowed you to gamble, and it was SATISFYING when you won.
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-Cap`'n Toast+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cap'n Toast)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I'm lovin' it.  But YES, I do want to see more from the next version.  I want a MUCH more in depth experience.  And I think it can be done while retaining the "fun factor" that this one has.[/quote]

Well put.


Anyway, my point was not to bitch about the game for no reason, but I did put some serious cash on the table to get it, and I do think that some of the aspects of the new game is just testament to a quick and cheap solution, which I don't usually associate with Sid Meier's name.

Strangelove
 
Wow, the system censored out the word " B I T C H" in my last mail. Come on !!!!!!!

It is actually the definition of a female dog, a perfectly natural word.

Also, this is a site for pirates !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am pretty darn sure that they did not use posh english.

Strangelove
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is there *anything* about this game that you like?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL! Some of the governor's daughters look great!

Seriously:

Guess I did not explain myself clear enough.

I <b>wanted</b> to like the game. I swear to God I do. When you wait so long for a new edition of a game, your expectations start to mount. Especially when there were a lot of good ideas in other games.

The original Pirates! has been ripped off by other game companies like Eidos' "Cutthroats". There are even elements to be found in an economic simulation like "1602" / "1503" by EA and "Port Royale" by Ascaron.

But these companies were <b>innovative</b>. They <b>had</b> to be, or they would have been recognized for what they did: Stealing the basic idea of Sid Meier: Pirating around the Caribbean.

Firaxis, on the other hand was <b>not</b> innovative. Granted, there's this (very nice) menuet dancing subplot, but that's about it.

I have already named a few of the items that I missed in SMP:
- building up a reputation that ranges from "notorious" to "devil himself"
- burying treasures (BTW Cap'n Toast: I know of course, that the money for your retirement comes from your personal wealth. But "Cutthroats" had this great feature of "cheating your crew for some of the gold". This did lower crew morale, of course, but it was just like in Real Pirate Life ™: Will: "You cheated!" Jack: "Pirate!")
- greater range of weaponry and tactics. The choice between grapes, balls and chain balls is an improvement, but historical pirates had much more in their armory. I already mentioned fire- ships. Cannons could also be loaded with a double charge to inflict severe hull damage on the enemy. <b>Ramming</b> the enemy ship is also impossible without initiating a boarding. I've had several cases where I just wanted to <i>destroy</i> the escort sloop and save my men for the main course, the Galleon. Why can't you just run the sloop into the ground??!?

"Cutthroats" also had the splendid idea to fool the enemy with false flags. You could hoist a neutral flag and pretend innocence, until you were in firing range and then <b>BOOM!</b> let rip!

There was also the possibility to hoist a red flag, meaning: "I give no quarters, nor do I accept it from you!" or you'd hoist the Jolly Roger, meaning: "If you surrender, you will be given quarter, but if you don't, we'll slit yer gizzard!"

All these great variations have gone completely unnoticed by Sid Meier. They were historical realities, so why were they left out???

SMP is too historically and physically accurate for the average <b>arcade player</b> ("Why is the wind always blowing in westerly direction?") and too much shoot- em- up for the average <b>simulation player</b>.

Thus, it will lose <b>both</b> target groups eventually.
 
I guess it all boils down to what the goal of the remake was. I'm sure that the we are not the only ones to think of all these points. I'm sure there were meetings galore about game content and concepts in the game design phases. I can't imagine that any of the things you pointed out could have "unnoticed" by Sid Meier.

I think at the beginning, Barry and Sid and some of the big boys sat around and asked the question, "Do we want to make an expansive Pirates! experience that has ties to the original, or do we want to make a pure clone of the original with a few added touches?" They HAD to have decided (for whatever reason) to go with the latter. My confidence in that point comes from the fact that if they chose the prior, they COMPLETELY missed the mark, and honestly, I don't think Sid Meier ever really "COMPLETELY misses the mark". He's too good for that.

I think it's a perfect "remake" (minus a few small annoyances) of the original. Kind of a Pirates! Redux or Director's Cut. A few minutes of added footage, THX remastered and a new Dolby Digital Soundtrack. I don't believe it can qualify as "Pirates! 2" though. It's too much like the original. And maybe that's why did not call it that - becuase it IS a remake and not a second chapter in terms of development.

Strangelove, as far as the "quick and cheap solution" goes. Again, it all depends on what the "problem" was that they were looking for a solution for. If they wanted a remake, they had the perfect solution. If they wanted the Pirates! 2 or a second edition or something, they certainly failed to solve for x. It HAD to be the remake they were after. In which case, the solved the problem wonderfully (aside from several Baron Raymondos and no save game naming... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> ).
 
I like it and the graphics, but I still think more could be added to it. The sailing is fine to me, because it takes time to get anywhere so you have to plan ahead to what you will do, and all of that. The newer features are more of an adventure type spirit than just taking gold and ships, and all of that.

So the game is toned down a bit, but with some added features. Plus the time is different than it was with the original, and I think it has to do a lot with the way parents will feel about such a game, if their kids were playing it.

Otherwise, until people feel differntly about having reality in a computer game, it may remain this way with some games. But then, it was probably made with an expansion in mind, and all of that stuff also, and basically to make more money as with Civ3. Basic game, and if it does well, then more will be added to it, and afterall it is about the same thing -- a ten year revision of a game to remember the game, but a different version to not make it the same.
 
This is why:
<a href="http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/11/23/news_6113908.html" target="_blank">http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/11/23/ne...ws_6113908.html</a>

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" />
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-Capn_Enigma`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Capn_Enigma)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->LOL! Some of the governor's daughters look great![/quote]Well good! At least there's SOMEthing you like about it! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

Okay, so I like to look at the brighter side. Sure, I like the game, it's entertaining, and that's all I really wanted. I didn't have any further expectations than that, and I felt my $ was `well-spent`.

Imagine if we were all still going to an arcade to get our gaming gene goosed... I mean... What does it cost in an arcade these days to play? For about three to five minutes of play unless you win some free games? How long would it take us to go through what we spent on SMP? And we couldn't even save our games or come back hours later when it was convenient...

I use my computer as a business tool, and once in a while I ride it for the games... I don't game very much, so maybe my opinion isn't as weighty as someone who might game A LOT... But I've been having fun with this game - maybe because my expectations were not high. I just wanted to have fun, and I am...

It was incredible to have been chosen for the betatest on this game. With your ideas and opinions, Enigma, it's too bad you were not, because I am sure they (Atari/Firaxis) would have been very interested in seeing what you have to say. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was incredible to have been chosen for the betatest on this game. With your ideas and opinions, Enigma, it's too bad you were not, because I am sure they (Atari/Firaxis) would have been very interested in seeing what you have to say.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Very flattering, thanx, Cat, but as an ex- sailor and hobby historian for piracy, I am a stickler for authenticity in all things nautical. Guess that makes me <b>not</b> the average Pirates! buyer that betatesting is aimed at.

Sometimes, ignorance is <b>really</b> a bliss. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" />
 
I have to agree with most of you that this game could have been a lot better, i expected a lot more of it thats for sure specially where i used to play the original game on the old C64. Thats why i decided to make a Master Trainer/ Mod to put some of the game elements in the game that i miss so much. Being a game developer myself i definatly would have done more with it. Anyways check out my topic on the Master Trainer under the modding section here and you will see what im trying to change to the game.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top