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Seventy-Four

Commodore John Paul Jones

Commodore John Paul Jones

Commodore in the Continental Navy
Storm Modder
Is anyone interested in making a seventy-four? I think it would be fun to see and use in Age of Pirates, especially in the AoP multiplayer.
A few specs:
Built: 1795
Guns: 74
Lbs: 24 lower deck, 18 upper deck
Paintjob: Nelson's navy

Think someone could design the white British ensign to fly from the gaff?
It would be a good match against the slightly smaller Battleship and slightly larger Man-o-War.

Think along the lines of the Third Rate from Pirates of the Burninig Sea.
 
Ha ha ha! Right mate! Bloody... its pretty hard to wait...
You seen my site? We're a "squadron" (clan) that will rp in Age of Pirates.

<a href="http://s2.phpbbforfree.com/forums/rp.html" target="_blank">http://s2.phpbbforfree.com/forums/rp.html</a>
 
Dont get me wrong JPJ, i like the design of a 74 ship of the line, but i dont think that the big ships have been properly implemented in AoP. A 80 gun battleship is a real piastre sink, because of its huge design it gets hit a LOT (in fact a frigate can take more punishment because of its smaller design), causing insane repair costs. Plus you cant really maneuver these things. I would take two frigates over one 80 gun ship of the line/battleship anytime particularly because AoP frigates can be armed with 24 pounders.
 
Mayby also a job for modding. making such things as turnrate and hitpoints realistic.

A 74-gunner would normally sink your small 36 gun frigs, as they have a weaker hull and not more than 18pounders on board. just the american 44's and the british razees could stand against them.

The turnrate of a frig might have been better, but as the name said, those 74 gun ships and also the big 3 deckers where build to fight IN LINE. Firing broadside after broadside agains the enermy, while they get hit after hit from the enermy. No Frig would be able to take place in that line. Take a look at those big Battles like trafalgar and abukir. even there was a frig in the area, it doesn't take part.

The Man o War, Battleship and Galleon of AOP should have also bad mannoeveribility, but as they are older version, they should have less and smaller guns.
 
<!--quoteo(post=139593:date=Feb 13 2006, 06:35 PM:name=Bladerunner)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bladerunner @ Feb 13 2006, 06:35 PM) [snapback]139593[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mayby also a job for modding. making such things as turnrate and hitpoints realistic.

A 74-gunner would normally sink your small 36 gun frigs, as they have a weaker hull and not more than 18pounders on board. just the american 44's and the british razees could stand against them.

The turnrate of a frig might have been better, but as the name said, those 74 gun ships and also the big 3 deckers where build to fight IN LINE. Firing broadside after broadside agains the enermy, while they get hit after hit from the enermy. No Frig would be able to take place in that line. Take a look at those big Battles like trafalgar and abukir. even there was a frig in the area, it doesn't take part.

The Man o War, Battleship and Galleon of AOP should have also bad mannoeveribility, but as they are older version, they should have less and smaller guns.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what I'm talking about! I want a seventy-four ship made so that our squadron can use them in a LINE OF BATTLE when playing online. That would make for some fantastic tactical warfare! What would you think if you joined a server and found four third rates in a line astern, ploughing towards you, not to mention two frigates a little off their larboard quarter, and a sloop-o-war abeam?
 
<!--quoteo(post=139593:date=Feb 14 2006, 07:35 AM:name=Bladerunner)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bladerunner @ Feb 14 2006, 07:35 AM) [snapback]139593[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mayby also a job for modding. making such things as turnrate and hitpoints realistic.

A 74-gunner would normally sink your small 36 gun frigs, as they have a weaker hull and not more than 18pounders on board. just the american 44's and the british razees could stand against them.

The turnrate of a frig might have been better, but as the name said, those 74 gun ships and also the big 3 deckers where build to fight IN LINE. Firing broadside after broadside agains the enermy, while they get hit after hit from the enermy. No Frig would be able to take place in that line. Take a look at those big Battles like trafalgar and abukir. even there was a frig in the area, it doesn't take part.

The Man o War, Battleship and Galleon of AOP should have also bad mannoeveribility, but as they are older version, they should have less and smaller guns.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

agreed, frigates should not stand a chance against a 74. you mentioned the heavy american frigates: i think AoP frigates with 46 guns, a good amount of hitpoints and ~570 men are comparable to these american 44s.
unfortunately keeping a battle line is impossible in AoP (singleplayer) because the AI is way too stupid (i would say that PotC AI was more complex), you will see friendly ships crashing into each other and into landmasses frequently. even the most simple command "sail away" causes friendly AI ships to sail into wrong directions.
because of this and the aforementioned huge maintanance costs for 80+ guns ships -at this point- commanding a single frigate is the most rewarding (in terms of piastres and fun) experience for me.
the downside is you cannot knock out a fort with a single frigate (highest difficulty setting).
 
You are properly right for the original game in SP-RPG-Mode, evil, but mayby mods will change this and MP is a totally different story.

AOS also didn't allowed to give commands to AI ships and after sometimes it is no problem to sunk you enermies during the SP-Campaigns. a really dumb AI for advanced players. I played the Campaigns, got bored and put the game aside. About a year later i bought BF42 and had the idea to play it online, but never really arrived. I found AOS2-Room at Gamespy, tried out an online battle and got strucked in very short time. This brought back the fun for the game. I joined the fine Sealords-Community, where 8 Fleets are organised, and from this time i sailed several time in a Line of Battle.

I don't really care for the SP-Mode of AOP, as even if you would have the best AI, which were ever made for a game, mostly you find out a trick or a tactic, which makes you win all the time. Then the game will become boring, as the AI will never be able to change his tactics. But Humans can...

The AOP frig with 46 guns and 24 pounders before 1750 seem not very realistic for me and i really would wish a mod, which correct this for MP. Historically it wouldmake more sense to sail the AOP-Corvette as a frig - 32 guns with 12 to 18 pounders would be closer to reality.
 
Aye mate. I hardly think of the Corvette as a Corvette. I think Akella makes all their ships a bit oversized. I just call it the Napoleonic frigate! (Because thats really what it is!) Ha ha ha!
What they really need is a mod that re-rates everything. It would make it all more realistic. I get tired of finding AI squadrons with 2 battleships, a frigate, and a schooner... all in their sloppy "line of battle"... HA! I'll show ye a REAL line-o-battle! 4 third rates mate!
My squadron, (this is what I call our clan.) has been sitting in Spithead in ordinary for months now!!! I can't wait to put to sea!!! LOL
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are properly right for the original game in SP-RPG-Mode, evil, but mayby mods will change this and MP is a totally different story.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Have you actually tried to play AOP in MP mode? How can you say it's a different story, it's even more hopeless in terms of tactics applied than SP mode. They have a salvo rate there of roughly 1 broadside every 15 seconds, or so, and you have to manually aim and fire all the time. How much room that leaves for any maneuvering (commanding a squadron, forming battle orders etc?) No modding in the world can help this, you'll probably have to rewright the engine to make something resembling a naval battle out of it.

All you people coming from the AOS community, hoping for the same kind of online experience in AOP -- forget it! Here, let me enlighten you a little.

In AOP MP mode you have:

no raking, so crossing the "T" on opponent is useless and sometimes even harmful, since it gets harder to hit a target with a smaller profile ant that's the only thing you really get when you cross the T on someone in AOP.

no difference between wearing and tackling, in fact you barely notice you're tackling - it's that fast and easy. So what's the point of having the weather gauge if it gives you nothing? Try to outcircle the enemy, or cross the T on him -- he'll tackle in 10 sec and laugh at you.

no proper interface, all you get is a freaking radar-like device with four points on it. FOUR FREAKING POINTS! Compare that with 16 in AOS and 32 they used in real life. So how do you command your squadron again? Assuming you have time to do it (don't forget - you have to aim and fire constantly, or you'll reduce your squadron firepower)

no free camera, no preset cameras. All you see is a 3-rd and 1-st person views of your own ship. No overall view, no close-ups on the enemy from the 3-rd person camera, no visual representation of ships names, players, damage level and so on.

no proper chat window, all you get is a fading out chatstring, which has to be turned on every time you're going to type something. Then it fades out. Hey, who needs those battleplans anyway, right? You also don't get things like battle-log, statistics and replays, ofcourse.


So do you get the picture? Oh, and btw -- no editor, no user-made scenarios.
Afterall I think you are right - it's a totally different story. From AOS that is.
 
so wait. theres no auto aim in mp? that sucks... i mean i don't use it for 1v1 but when i'm trying to figure out what sships gettting raped and needs backup or needs to defend me or ect.... i use auto aim.... and if thats gone theres going to be like no tactics in mp.... damn.... that sucks
 
Thankee Toddydude! Aye, I know that the AoP MP is a totally different story. However, there could be a mod that slows the reload time? And, in real sea battles, you DO have to aim your guns and all you can see is your quarterdeck, no birds eye view.
As a matter of fact, I think that this AoP MP will tell you which ones are really good at strategy and tactics and which ones are actually able to command a ship or ships!
 
I doubt you can show tactics and strategy, if sailing and shooting is that unrealistic as Seabro told us. Mayor tactics in the Age of Sail, where raking the enermy and trying to get the luff-side, as this is the best position for an attack. You might mod the turn rate, but i doubt you will be able to mod in realistic wind and different damages, belonging to you position to the enermy.

The missing god view is something i could live with, although i liked it in AOS, it seems to be more realistic not to have it. Espacially as one player can just control one ship in MP.

But if i add the Starforce protection to those arguments of seabro (also those about missing support - i just remember AOS, which has mayor bugs up to today, cause akella just stop supporting the game after they can't manage them), I doubt, that we will get a proper game for what i like to use it.

I might look further for alternatives to AOS2 and PB or try to reinitiate our game-project at SL....
 
in a way i beleive auto fire would be real, sorta, if i recall, it would be up to the captain to designat targets, and up to gunners to actually aim and fire the guns. A ship is so complex you cant really replicate it in a game without alot of players on the same ship.
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so wait. theres no auto aim in mp?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

technically speaking -- there is. But it's completely useless. I don't even know why they left it there, it's impossible to hit a moving target in that mode. They might fix it in the english build, though, but it's a tough job to balance the accuracy there so it won't ruin the manual aiming feature, which this MP is supposed to be all about.

When I found out how terrible the MP mode would be, I tried to get to them before the release and posted my suggestions on their forum. I said - you have nothing but battles in your MP, so get tactical. The answer I got was something like "Our game is an RPG, so we don't need that tactics crap, no way". You know, if they had a co-op mode in there I'd be fine with that answer. But the only thing you can do there is a quick battle. They don't even have a boarding sequence, it's just a pure gunfire duel between ships and that's it. So go figure what role playing has to do with it, you tell me. But the thing is - if you don't get tactical in the MP like that and still have your usual salvo and reloading rate you get bored. Quickly. Their solution? Well, they've decided to implement a 15 sec reloading. And as a result, it is now a clickfest for the braindead. What a waste.
 
Something interesting that I read from an Aubrey novel........in a conversation between Steven and Jack, Steven asked Jack about frigates particpateing in fleet actions, Line of Battle etc. Jack said only in small engagements would a frigate or even a sloop participate in a battle going after other ships of their class. In large fleet actions, they would be in the rear as signal boats and to pick up surviors from sunken or damaged ships....that is unless they fired on a Ship of the line which would then remove its "netruality" so to speak.
 
Aye. That is correct Puppy.
Say, what if we started a thread that was a petition to re mod AoP's MP. Ye know, the first post would say what Seabro said. Then all who want to sign put "AYE". Once we have a good # of votes, we can send them the link. Mabye when Akella sees that their customers aren't pleased with their product, they'll releace a mod or Expansion pack... something!
 
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