• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

Realistic Sailing

Doober

Doober

Buccaneer
Storm Modder
Well, I finally took Hook's advice and have been playing with realistic sailing. It is unbelievable how much it changes the game dynamics. Square rigged ships are no longer the optimal vessel. Sloops an Xebecs seem to be much better. IMHO, it makes the game alot more fun and requires alot more thought in sailing. Due to my inexperience, I was not able to maneuver to a surrendered ship for the boarding, I had to wait till the wind changed before I could get close enough. Any one else have any tips for a novice sailor on realistic? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
Let's see what I can come up with off the top of my head, before I fall asleep. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

First of all, unless you intend to be running away, you don't want an enemy ship directly upwind of you.

If you're trying to get to a surrendered ship that's upwind, here's an example of how to do it. Say the wind is coming directly from the north. The enemy ship is north-north-east of you. Don't sail northeast to try to get to the ship. Sail as close as you can on the wind to the northwest until the enemy ship is about east-north-east, then come about through the wind and sail with the wind on the opposite tack. This should put you close enough to board a surrendered ship. Depending on how close the ship can sail to the wind, you can adjust the directions as necessary. It takes a bit of experience.

Fore and aft rigged ships like schooners, sloops, xebecs (I think) and I believe the privateer (which isn't actually fore and aft rigged, the numbers are wrong) can sail fairly close to the wind, about 45 degrees off the wind. They sail fastest with the wind on the beam, coming directly from the side. Square riggers will only be able to sail 20 degrees into the wind (or 60 degrees off the wind) depending on the ship. They sail fastest with the wind on the quarter.

The sail luffing sounds will give you an audible clue when you're sailing close to the wind. Also, turn on the onscreen clock in BuildSettings by setting:

#define DISPLAY_SEA_TIME 1

The weather (and wind direction) changes at the top of the hour, but can be up to 5 minutes late because of the way the time is calculated. This should help in making decisions about how to maneuver.

Good luck, and I'm glad to see someone else using realistic sailing. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=174283:date=Dec 2 2006, 06:46 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Dec 2 2006, 06:46 PM) [snapback]174283[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Square riggers will only be able to sail 20 degrees into the wind (or 60 degrees off the wind) depending on the ship.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Make that 70 degrees off the wind. I did mention that I was falling asleep when I wrote that. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

Keep in mind that a square rigger will slow to a stop, then actually start moving backwards if you are facing into the wind. The speed does not show as negative in the indicators, but you'll still be moving backwards. You can use this to your advantage on occasion. Fore and aft rigged ships are not pushed backwards by the wind.

No matter what the ship, you will turn fastest when you are at battle sails. You also turn faster if you are moving faster. When coming about through the wind, especially in a square rigger, you need to sail as close on the wind as you can at full sail, then begin your turn and bring your sails to battle sail state. This will get you through the wind as quickly as possible.

The sail luffing sounds were added for two reasons. First, so that you'd be able to tell immediately if you were sailing too close to the wind without having to watch the speed indicator constantly. Second, it is a reminder to strike sail if you're facing into the wind. The best setting I've found for the luffing sounds is:

#define SAIL_LUFFING_SOUNDS 2 // INT - Set from 1 to 3 to play sail luffing sounds when sailing too close to wind. 0=off, higher numbers add more luffing sound.

Setting it to 1 won't give you enough feedback; setting it to 3 gives too much.

If you can get an enemy ship sailing into the wind, he won't be able to turn as quickly, making it easier to stay out of the firing arcs of his cannons. Reducing his sails with chainshot will also slow down his turning, but you may have to do considerable damage before you'll notice much difference. A ship will turn at about half normal rate when the sails are down to 30%, and turn rate falls off quickly with additional damage. If you dismast him entirely, he won't be able to turn at all. Of course, sail damage also slows a ship down. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

You can learn a lot about realistic sailing by practicing in a fore and aft rigged ship like a sloop. Sail out from Redmond port (for example) and sail completely around the island, going in and out of coves. This will expose you to many different wind conditions while requiring you to sail in specific directions.

If it's not obvious, sailing to a point upwind requires you to tack; that is, first sail close to the wind in one direction, then turn through the wind and sail close on the wind in the other direction, making a zig-zag pattern. Since fore and aft rigged ships can sail closer to the wind, you'll be able to reach your destination more quickly.

And take Petros' advice: hire a good navigator or build up sailing skills and perks yourself. This allows you to turn more quickly, which is a major advantage when turning through the wind. You can also get a speed advantage, which indirectly gives you a faster turn rate.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask. And if I can think of anything else, I'll add it here.

Hook
 
Thanks Hook! That will give me alot to work on. It does make the game so much more fun than driving the ship around like a car. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

I've been putting all my skill points into sailing, because I did notice that trying to sail with low points was like trying to move a barge.
 
yes, sailing without knowing how to sail can be a little problematic. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> it sounds like fun by what i hear about it. maybe i'll try it.
 
The Brigantines all should be Great as THE compromise between the Xebec and the square riggers . Better than the sloop all around . And the Schooner becomes more usefull in the game .
 
the brigantine is still half square-rigged, so you actually should be able to strike the sqaure sails to sail up-wind and hoist them to gain extra speed when sailing with the wind.
 
Hook: I don't know if I've ever said this yet, but I will now. THANK YOU!!! Your rewrite of the realistic sailing code is a godsend to those of us who enjoy the realism of true to life sailing. Even before I used the mods, I always set my game to realistic sailing, but was bugged by the 'realistic' sailing setting still allowing you to sail INTO the wind. The mods you have made make sailing a ship so much better for those of us who actually have at least a tiny clue of how its really supposed to be done.

Cap'n Drow
 
is it actually possible to make more sail configurations for realistic sailing mode? like i mentioned before with the brigantine. it would be useless for arcade mode, but it would enhance realism greatly for realistic sailing mode.
 
Yes, actually, I was wondering the same thing. Are there settings in the ship_init.c file that would allow us to make certain ships more "weatherly" (I believe that was the wording used at the time)? A brig could sail closer to the wind than a battleship could.

I have been working on a mod more for myself, but I could release it if you would like that makes the gun weights for the ships more realistic (ie most frigates did NOT carry 18lb long guns at the time period, and a ship like a Xebec would not have been able to carry 12lb cannons.) This seems to solve alot of the problems of firing on a ship and sinking her inadvertantly. Of course, if you are a Manowar firing on a sloop, you will still send her to the bottom pretty quick.

If possible, I would like to add to this mod, the capability for some ships being more weatherly than others. Would there also be a way to put it in so you could see that stat when buying a ship? Kind of like speed and turn rate.
 
Actually, I do believe those settings are set on a ship by ship basis in one of the ship initialization files. Not sure just which one, nor what settings would need to be modified though. But I do seem to remember seeing something like that in one of the many files I've looked through thus far.

Sorry I'm not much more help than that.

Cap'n Drow
 
<!--quoteo(post=174493:date=Dec 4 2006, 02:52 PM:name=Cap'n_Drow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cap'n_Drow @ Dec 4 2006, 02:52 PM) [snapback]174493[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Actually, I do believe those settings are set on a ship by ship basis in one of the ship initialization files. Not sure just which one, nor what settings would need to be modified though. But I do seem to remember seeing something like that in one of the many files I've looked through thus far.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.

The Ships_init.c file sets
refShip.SpeedRate and refShip.TurnRate for each ship model individually.
Thus you can have various Frigates with different speeds.

Sailing characteristics refShip.ClosestPoint and refShip.BestPoint are set for all ships of a given type collectively.
Thus all frigates share identical sailing characteristics.

That can be changed for a particular model by simply adding the refShip.ClosestPoint and refShip.BestPoint lines under the ship's own section of the file.
 
<!--quoteo(post=174449:date=Dec 4 2006, 09:32 AM:name=Cap'n_Drow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cap'n_Drow @ Dec 4 2006, 09:32 AM) [snapback]174449[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
.... Even before I used the mods, I always set my game to realistic sailing, but was bugged by the 'realistic' sailing setting still allowing you to sail INTO the wind. ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Let's not forget KnowNothingBozo's "Realistic Sailing" mod that corrected that!
 
I think it was SIDS Pirates that had the ships sailing at peak performance so many points off the wind depending on sail type. And rigging style...the Brig/ Brigantine was intended to take advantage of the la teen sails and also the square rigs to sail ' with the wind . The Schooner in fact should be the fastest or among the fastest types in the game. I don't see that as so.

Look at the rigging on a " Clipper" ship . You could NEVER use that type on a battleship...it would be a nightmare...and quickly destroyed. But if you could it would be one fast mutha . The other thing that affected the handling was the amount of ' free board" and the high castles and the bluntness of the Bows...the American designed Frigates like the Constitution had the almost Ideal hull shape .

But since a line Ship had to mount so many Guns on multiple decks...it needed ALLOT of sail to keep it moving forward and not " crabbing ' because the hull was acting as a huge sail in a cross wind .

I have NO idea how you could factor all this into an algorithm that would accurately portray ship handling.

But a game like Uncharted Waters new horizons ( KOEI / PC ? console ) did it fairly well way back in 1994 .

I don't see it so much in AOP or POTC..but more so in AOP..POTC seems more realistic even in arcade mode.

In AOP I would always try to out run an equally upgraded galleon or Brig by sailing 45 degrees of the wind with a schooner...figuring naturally that there would be NO way for it to keep up...never mind CATCH up...ummm I would be wrong..in that game...to my sunk butt surprise.

At least In POTC even in a Xebec I can outrun another type ship based on the rigging depending on my heading..in ARCADE mode !

With real sailing turned on..you REALLY have to pay attention and it makes the battles last FOREVER...almost like realistic...meeheheehhe...
 
<!--quoteo(post=174449:date=Dec 4 2006, 08:32 AM:name=Cap'n_Drow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cap'n_Drow @ Dec 4 2006, 08:32 AM) [snapback]174449[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hook: I don't know if I've ever said this yet, but I will now. THANK YOU!!! Your rewrite of the realistic sailing code is a godsend to those of us who enjoy the realism of true to life sailing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks, but I didn't write the realistic sailing code. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /> I did correct a one-line bug, but the whole mod was by someone else, KnowNothingBozo according to Petros. I wasn't here at the time. He did an excellent job.

Everyone be careful messing with the sailing parameters. Unless you understand the math involved, you'll end up with weird unwanted effects.

The fore and aft rigged ships will sail at 116% of indicated top speed in the stats when sailing with the wind on the beam. This makes the schooner faster than the stats would indicate. This is as is should be, but is one of the side effects of the way the math works. There's no code that says "Sail at 1.16 times normal rate."

Hook
 
Those schooners are unbelievable! I got up over 21 knots just now, and they can sail almost directly into the wind. I wouldn't be afraid to go against a battleship in one of these things.

As far as changing settings, I was planning to alter some of them very minorly just so all ships have a slightly different close point, much like it would be in realy life. I haven't really experimented with it yet, though.
 
And this is why I'm not afraid to go against a battleship in my sloop. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Keep in mind that even tiny changes to closest point can have some major effects on the maximum speeds of fore and aft rigged ships with the wind on the beam.

Given that you will seldom encounter another ship of the same type you are sailing, and even if you do there are so many differences in ship loading and captain skills and perks that no two ships would ever sail identically even if there were no nationality differences or random differences. Differences in closest point would only make sense if the AI had the slightest idea about sailing close on the wind.

If you want to experiment with making changes, go for it. But don't be surprised if the end results start getting weird. And if the changes are small enough that you don't get weird results, they will probably be too small to notice. For example, in the current game, can you tell if the galleon you are going against (for example) is a Spanish design or a pirate design, just by the sailing qualities? Maybe some people can; I know I can't.

Good luck in any case.

Hook
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top