Included in Build New ships for the French navy

[Pieter Boelen]

Do you have any idea what colours Dutch ships were painted in the late 18th and early 19th century?

No clue, I'm afraid. Maybe @Armada, @Hylie Pistof or even @Captain Armstrong would have a better idea.

Otherwise I'm half inclined to do the Portuguese versions of both "Greyhound" and "Surprise" and let the Dutch share those.

I think there is some measure of sharing between Portugal and Holland going on already, so I have no objections there.

If I do create the Portuguese versions, I won't bother adding new interface pictures - the Portuguese texture is close enough to the British one that they can share interface pictures and not take up more of the rather limited free space still remaining in the interface picture files. US versions, on the other hand, will look different and require new interface pictures. If this goes on much longer we're going to need a fifth interface picture file...

The question is always of what we actually need vs. file size.
As far as I'm concerned, anything that isn't unique enough, can be kicked out from the mod. We've done that before and removed 50+ ship models, if I recall.

On the other hand, if we do need another one for good reason, I see no problem with adding it. Shame about the download size; but the mod download size is already silly anyway.
Yet still not as silly as some AoP mods, because at least on PotC I've been trying to make a "clever" installer and use texture compression to keep things (at least somewhat) in check.

 

[Grey Roger]

OK, you asked for it. I've just uploaded a revised version of "new_french_ships.zip", with the reworked French textures reworked again and a few more added for good measure. Pictures such as this one of Trafalgar or Unité[/i] after being captured indicate French ships to have a lighter shade tinted more towards orange, while our current dark maroon shade is more appropriate for Spain - watch the video of the capture of Le Reve in "Hornblower" for a good view of this. So what were the French textures are now the Spanish textures, and France has some new textures, including matching files to replace the ones used by "FR_SotL" and "FR_BattleFrigate", the latter meaning "FR_SteamFrigate is also getting a facelift. And this is the ship which triggered it:


First is "SP_Essex", unchanged and here just for comparison. Next is "FR_Essex" with the new shade of red. And then there's "NL_Essex", which uses the Portuguese texture, which is probably why "PO_Essex" doesn't exist, and incidentally establishes precedent for Holland and Portugal to share ship models. Which is why there will probably be (at least) one more revision of "new_french_ships.zip" some time after this ship has its interface picture:

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Sounds like some definite improvements to me! It just keeps getting better and better!

 

[Armada]

Do you have any idea what colours Dutch ships were painted in the late 18th and early 19th century?

Probably black and yellow, like most other ships at the time. It might seem boring, but I think black and yellow/white were the most common colours for all nations of this era.
I've only seen evidence (which may not be reliable) of black and red being used on the Santisima Trinidad, so I don't think that was a common paint scheme.

I know that's not very helpful for the stylised national paint schemes in PotC, so you'll just have to use some creative license if that's the system you're sticking with.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I know that's not very helpful for the stylised national paint schemes in PotC, so you'll just have to use some creative license if that's the system you're sticking with.

The paint schemes can be quite nice from a gameplay point of view, so creative license is fine by me.

 

[Grey Roger]

See above - precedent is already set for Dutch to use the same yellow/black scheme as Portugal, which isn't quite the same as the British one - more textured, and with a white underside instead of the British copper-plate. Portugal and Holland can share "NL_Essex" and "PO_Greyhound". At least now there's a bit more variety and everyone isn't sharing "RN_Surprise".

 

[Grey Roger]

Update: the file on the FTP site has been updated again, hopefully for the last time:
http://piratesahoy.bowengames.com/potc/Grey Roger/new_french_ships.zip
The new French textures plus the interface picture for "PO_Greyhound" (and an updated picture for "FR_Greyhound" while I was at it, as it's in the same picture file) are all included. This is how they look on the sea:



And "FR_FirstRate" has had a makeover as well. It doesn't use the same texture files as other ships, it has its own texture file based on one for a British ship, complete with British flags on the stern art.


Originally "FR_FirstRate" had red framework on the stern to match the colour of the main hull. But the picture of the battle of Trafalgar which I found shows a French ship with red hull and yellow or gold stern framework, so "FR_FirstRate" now has yellow framework too. And the flags are now French.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Much more better!

 

[Armada]

Nice work on FR_FirstRate. I was never too happy about the dark red stern, but this looks much better.
It's a shame that the UV mapping on ships like this one don't allow for the headrails to be painted differently to the hull stripes. Ideally, those headrails should match the stern colours.

 

[Grey Roger]

Ideally, those headrails should match the stern colours.

Should they indeed? Most ships don't give me that choice, using the same wood texture for everything, but "FR_Surprise" is a different matter. In fact, I wish I'd known that earlier as I went to a bit of effort finding which file provided the colour for the beak and then getting it to match the hull. Also, I think I used an obsolete version of "SP_Essex.gm" when I edited it to use the new name for what had been the French hull texture. So here are updated versions of both - this version of "SP_Essex.gm" is based on one I extracted from the 29th November update:
http://piratesahoy.bowengames.com/potc/Grey Roger/FR_Surprise.zip
http://piratesahoy.bowengames.com/potc/Grey Roger/SP_Essex.zip

And here's how the updated "FR_Surprise" will look:


Update: never mind that, I've re-uploaded "new_french_ships.zip" after all. It now contains updated "FR_Surprise", "SP_Essex" and "FR_Indefatigable", the latter also now with yellow stern frames and headrails.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

@Grey Roger: Just so you know, it is quite possible to reuse the refShip.Sname lines that refer to common.ini .
So I've changed your code a bit to do that. Saves a few lines on common.ini .

 

[Grey Roger]

Can you upload your "common.ini" and "Ships_init.c"? I may have some more additions to make - France is done, now to put back the Spanish versions and possibly add some Portuguese and/or American versions...

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Can you upload your "common.ini" and "Ships_init.c"? I may have some more additions to make - France is done, now to put back the Spanish versions and possibly add some Portuguese and/or American versions...

Don't have access to my game files until tonight. You should safe to use your own copies of those files;
I only changed a few lines here and there, so they should be mostly identical.

 

[Grey Roger]

One other detail which I've mentioned elsewhere: although the current "Napoleonic" French naval flag is technically sort of marginally correct on the basis of a loophole, in that it did actually exist briefly, it was soon replaced because white was the colour of the monarchy and hardly a fit colour for a naval flag of the Revolution. The normal flag was the tricolour, and that's what both Hornblower and Aubrey would have seen on any French ships in their respective game start times of 1813 and 1798. The problem is that merchant ships flew the same flag, which is going to confuse any pirate who can't tell the difference between a frigate and a fast merchantman, or who isn't sure whether the sloop he's just spotted is a naval one with no cargo except basic ship supplies. One possibility is that this is in "Napoleonic" era when piracy has all but been eliminated anyway, it's a tough life being a pirate and that's part of it. Another is to give merchants a distinctly different pennant, perhaps entirely blue.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I quite like that Napoleonic navy ensign; it's nice and different from the usual French flags you see.
But from a gameplay point of view, all I care about is to to maintain some sort of notable visible difference between navy and merchant ships.

 

[Grey Roger]

The usual French flags you see are pre-revolution, even in "Revolutions", so even the basic tricolour will be different.

So, any objection to using the tricolour as the flag for all French ships and giving merchants the blue pennant?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

So, any objection to using the tricolour as the flag for all French ships and giving merchants the blue pennant?

I suppose my "I like that very uncommon navy design" isn't enough to consider an objection, is it?

In the end, you have been doing a lot of work on that period, so I reckon it is only fair if you're allowed to do that how you would like it as well.

 

[Grey Roger]

As other people may be playing in "Napoleonic" period, has any9ne else any preference for tricolour or white French naval ensign? I'd prefer the proper French tricolour, especially if I'm playing Hornblower or Aubrey, but I don't want to force that preference on everyone else if the rest of you want the white flag with tricolour in the corner to stay.

 

[Grey Roger]

Meanwhile, here's the heavy sloop of war in its new French colours, and what used to be French dark red is now Spanish dark red:


Spain also gets a version of the "Unité" class frigate:


And if you ever get your hands on a "San Luis" class 2nd Rate ship of the line, this is your helmsman:

(Both "SP_SotL" and "RN_SotL" were using the "crewmanFra.tga" texture, so they both had helmsmen in French uniform. There was already a "crewmanBrt.tga" texture so fixing "RN_SotL" was trivial. "crewmanSpa.tga", on the other hand, is new.)

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Meanwhile, here's the heavy sloop of war in its new French colours, and what used to be French dark red is now Spanish dark red:

You can REALLY tell the difference between those two on that screenshot. I like!

And if you ever get your hands on a "San Luis" class 2nd Rate ship of the line, this is your helmsman:

(Both "SP_SotL" and "RN_SotL" were using the "crewmanFra.tga" texture, so they both had helmsmen in French uniform. There was already a "crewmanBrt.tga" texture so fixing "RN_SotL" was trivial. "crewmanSpa.tga", on the other hand, is new.)

Even better.

If you do get the chance to post your files before this evening, I can still include them in the update @Levis requested me to make tonight.