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Guide New complete guide for ships on POTC New Horizons

Homo eructus said:
If you still have an up to date Spanish version, it could be worth it to add it aswell, considering the mod is partially translated into Spanish
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I wouldn't mind doing a Spanish version of the guide. It has been long since I did any update on the spanish version, but I think I could do it on a reasonable time. Right now my Alpha spanish guide is completely outdated.
 
HellSailor said:
I wouldn't mind doing a Spanish version of the guide. It has been long since I did any update on the spanish version, but I think I could do it on a reasonable time. Right now my Alpha spanish guide is completely outdated.
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If there's enough people wanting it, I could help (with your permission of course!) translating it to portuguese too!
 
FatorNerd said:
If there's enough people wanting it, I could help (with your permission of course!) translating it to portuguese too!
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I don't mind if you want to do a Portuguese translation. Right now I'm working on the spanish translation so I wouldn't be able to help you much. If you wish to do it, bear in mind that, on the cover page, you have to credit me as the original idea of the guide, and that you did that portuguese translation by yourself. You can download the guides on my first post, and start working from there.
 
Update status: The spanish translation of my ship recognition guide is almost finished. I need only to double check and fix any errors there might be. After I finish it, it will be considered a BETA version, so I would like @Homo eructus to check the translation, since I think he's the coordinator of the spanish translation of the game. I would like of him to check, for example, the names of the six periods of the game, the names of the ships, the expressions, etc., to make sure it makes sense. Any errors you might find, I would like you to send me a PM with all the different errors you find.

Aaand just when I was almost going to finish the new updates for my guide, then the new release for the mod came in. Bugger. :facepalm I wish I could have finished in time for the release. Anyway, I would like to thank @Grey Roger, and everyone else, for the support and confidence in me for allowing me to create a tool that will help new and experimented players to better understand the ships on this mod. Without his help, the release of the guide would not have been possible with the best quality. :bow

So for this new version of the mod, I would like to double check every new change that has been brought in this new release regarding ships. After I finish updating the guide to the 28th Feb release, I will end my work on this guide. I will be able to do small and easy changes, but for the most part, everything else will be untouched. From time to time, there will be a big update of my guide, but that will happen in the distant future.
 
HellSailor said:
Aaand just when I was almost going to finish the new updates for my guide, then the new release for the mod came in. Bugger. :facepalm I wish I could have finished in time for the release. Anyway, I would like to thank @Grey Roger, and everyone else, for the support and confidence in me for allowing me to create a tool that will help new and experimented players to better understand the ships on this mod. Without his help, the release of the guide would not have been possible with the best quality.
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Don't worry, that won't be the last update! If you do more work on the Guide, and especially if you upload the Spanish translation, it can go into the next update. :cheers
 
HellSailor said:
Update status: The spanish translation of my ship recognition guide is almost finished. I need only to double check and fix any errors there might be. After I finish it, it will be considered a BETA version, so I would like @Homo eructus to check the translation, since I think he's the coordinator of the spanish translation of the game. I would like of him to check, for example, the names of the six periods of the game, the names of the ships, the expressions, etc., to make sure it makes sense. Any errors you might find, I would like you to send me a PM with all the different errors you find.

Aaand just when I was almost going to finish the new updates for my guide, then the new release for the mod came in. Bugger. :facepalm I wish I could have finished in time for the release. Anyway, I would like to thank @Grey Roger, and everyone else, for the support and confidence in me for allowing me to create a tool that will help new and experimented players to better understand the ships on this mod. Without his help, the release of the guide would not have been possible with the best quality. :bow

So for this new version of the mod, I would like to double check every new change that has been brought in this new release regarding ships. After I finish updating the guide to the 28th Feb release, I will end my work on this guide. I will be able to do small and easy changes, but for the most part, everything else will be untouched. From time to time, there will be a big update of my guide, but that will happen in the distant future.
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The Spanish names of the ships are all in RESOURCE/INI/TEXTS/SPANISH/common.ini. Many of them I didn't translate literally so you should refer to that in the first place to make sure they match. The periods are also in that same file.
 
I was looking for the differences between speed-arcade and speed realism on every ship, and I have found some interesting things, and what ships still need changes to their stats on arcade. These are some that I found.

Naval Ketch: Arcade speed is 10.0, Realism speed is 10.6. This means that its arcade speed should increase, to at least be 13.0 knots or higher.
Corvette (Corvette47): Arcade speed is 13.0, Realism speed is 13.2. This means that its arcade speed should increase, to at least be 13.5 knots or higher.
Merchant Pinnace: Its arcade speed was mentioned on this thread to be changed from 12.6 to 12.1, but it hasn't changed yet on the new release.
Medium Pinnace: Its arcade speed was mentioned on this thread to be changed from 12.6 to 13.1, but it hasn't changed yet on the new release.
 
Thanks for that, @HellSailor. Most of those changes will be in the next update, along with a few more. The Medium Pinnace should probably stay at 12.6 as its realistic speed is 9.5, and a difference of about 3 seems about right compared to some others - it's still faster than the Merchant Pinnace in both realistic and arcade modes when the Merchant Pinnace arcade speed is dropped to 11.5.

New changes:
Caravel1 (Caravela Latina / Lateen Caravel): arcade speed increased to 12.3 (1 more than realistic)
Caravel2 (Caravela Redonda / Square-rigged Caravel): arcade speed increased to 12.5 (0.9 more than realistic)
Carrack: arcade speed increased to 12.5 (0.9 more than realistic)
PO_Caravel50 (Caravela Hermafrodita / Hybrid-rigged Caravel): arcade speed increased to 12.3 (1 more than realistic)
Merchant Pinnace: arcade speed dropped to 11.5 (3 more than realistic)
Corvette47: arcade speed increased to 14.2 (1 more than realistic)
Nonsuch (Naval Ketch): arcade speed increased to 13.6 (3 more than realistic)
 
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Thanks @Grey Roger for the quick update! I will include these changes on my guide. Besides your changes, I have also created a list of possible changes for ships that I think are worthwhile taking a look. Before I start working on the file, I would like to hear your thoughts about the possible changes, and tell me which do you think are OK, which are indifferent, and which do you think are BAD changes.

AS: Arcade speed.
RS: Realistic Speed.
AT: Arcade Turn rate.
RT: Realistic Turn rate.

Armed tartane (standard model): AS: 10.0, RS: 9.0. New arcade speed: between 11.0-12.0.
Hoy: AS:15.3, RS: 10.0. New arcade speed: 14.3. (Need to fix Turn Realistic for PO_Hoy; it has 90, whereas the other models have 95).
Heavy Lugger: AT: 51; RT: 85. New Turn for arcade: Between 46-49.
Differences in Speed Realistic between HMS Bounty and Edinburgh Trader (Armed Merchantman). 11.5 for Bounty, 12.4 for Edinburgh Trader. Why differences? // Big differences between turn arcade and turn realistic.
Tiny differences of speed realistic between both models of sloop (vanilla models).
Bermuda Sloop: Should have an arcade turn similar to other sloops (around 50).
American Topsail Schooner: AS: 15.0, RS: 14.0. New arcade speed: 15.5.
Advanced Topsail Schooner: AS: 16.4, RS: 16.4. Increase its arcade speed to 17.4, or reduce its realistic speed to 15.4.
RN_Brig and US_Brig47: They have more realistic turn than its standard model. They also have less realistic speed than its standard model as well.
Light Fluyt of War: Reduce its arcade speed to 12.5 (3.5 more than realistic speed).
Heavy Sloop of War: AS: 13.1, RS: 12.8. New arcade speed: 13.8.
Greyhound: Increase its arcade speed to 13.3 (0.5 more than realistic speed).
Light East Indiaman: As it is right now, it is more of a military ship rather than a merchant one. It should receive some modifications. For example, reducing its HP, which is a bit excessive in my opinion, from 5000 to a maximum of 2500; reducing its maximum caliber from 18 to at least 12, or 9 to better resemble its "light" status; and also reducing its crew from 200-54 to 160-38. This is all for balancing issues.
RN_RevengeM (English Galleon): Increase its arcade speed to 10.5 (1.5 more than realistic speed).
RN_RevengeF (English War Galleon (Standard version)): AS: 11.0, RS: 11.0. New arcade speed: 11.5-12.0.
RN_RevengeW (English War Galleon (Heavy version)): AS: 10.0, RS: 10.0. New arcade speed: 10.5-11.0.
Spiegelretourschip: AS: 12.0, RS: 12.0. New arcade speed: 12.5-13.0.
FleutWars: Increase its arcade speed to 11.5 (1.5 more than realistic speed; done to be comparable to spanish war galleons).
Steam Frigates: AS: 12.0, RS: 12.0. New arcade speed: 12.5-13.0.
NL_PinnaceofWar47: Increase its arcade speed to 11.5 (2.8 more than realistic speed; on par with the standard model).
WallerPinnace: Reduce its arcade speed to 12.0 (3.5 more than realistic speed; both ship models are interchangeable).
NL_SevenProvincien: Reduce its arcade speed to 11.5 (3.0 more than realistic speed).
Heavy Frigate (Animist vanilla original ‘Mefisto’): Increase its arcade speed to 13.0 (0.5 more than realistic speed).
 
Armed tartane: makes sense, the comment indicates that RS was increased from 7.0 (same as other tartanes) to 9.0, while AS is unchanged and still the same as others. Increase AS to 12.0
Hoys: I'd drop AS to 13.3 - by comparison, luggers have AS about 3 higher than RS. Giving PO_Hoy the same RT as others makes sense as they're all supposed to be the same ship with different paint schemes.
Heavy lugger: makes sense, if its supposed to be slower on the turn than other luggers, have AT show that too. Reduced to 47.
HMS Bounty vs. Edinburgh Trader: as they're not repaint compatible, there's no harm in leaving the speeds different. But comparing to BarqueHeavy, alias Barque Longue, which is vaguely similar in performance, I'd raise their AS from 37 to 45.
Bermuda sloop: since RT is the same as other sloops, AT should also be the same. Meanwhile, as RS is higher than other sloops, add a bit more to its AS as well.
FR_Sloop, Sloop4: both have RS slightly higher than other sloops, so perhaps add 0.2 to their AS to match.
American Topsail Schooner, Advanced Topsail Schooner: certainly increase their AS.
RN_Brig, US_Brig47: I'd keep the revised realistic stats, change the arcade stats to match, and give both of them a different "refShip.Model" line. This controls which ships can be repainted into which other ships in the shipyard. If RN_Brig and US_Brig47 are the same as each other but different to vanilla brigs, let them be repaintable into each other but not into vanilla brigs.
Light Fluyt of War, Heavy Sloop of War: makes sense.
Greyhound: agreed, the other 6th rate frigates are the Postillionen variants whose AS is 0.5 higher than RS.
Light East Indiaman: compared to Heavy East Indiaman which has 8000 HP, the Light East Indiaman having 5000 HP isn't unreasonable. I'd agree with reducing the calibre from 18 to 12, which would allow a crew reduction to 160/38 as you suggest.
NL_PinnaceOfWar47: the standard is actually "WallerPinnace", alias "Heavy Pinnace of War", as both have the same "refShip.Model" line. That has RS 8.5, AS 12.6. Reduce "NL_PinnaceOfWar47" RS to 8.5, increase AS to 11.5, reduce "WallerPinnace" AS to 11.5, so that they match each other and their AS is 3.0 higher than RS.
NL_SevenProvincien: though its model is more like "HeavyLineship" but not quite the same, its stats are similar to "WallerPinnace", so dropping its AS to 11.5 to match the revised "WallerPinnace" AS makes sense.

Try this version of "Ships_init.c".
 
That's great! I wouldn't have minded doing that job for you. I will include these new changes onto my guides. If you think nothing else needs to be changed, the next release for both the English and Spanish versions, would be final for my guide, for a long time. :cheers

Just to be sure, what specific changes did you made to the ships, so that I can portray them accurately on my guides?
 
HellSailor said:
That's great! I wouldn't have minded doing that job for you.
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I thought about that. xD But I had to look at "Ships_init.c" to see all the ships you mentioned, and then decided I may as well make the necessary changes while I was there.

HellSailor said:
Just to be sure, what specific changes did you made to the ships, so that I can portray them accurately on my guides?
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Pretty much what you suggested, except where I said something different above. Now it's your turn to look through "Ships_init.c" to see what happened to the ships you listed. ;) If you already downloaded it, do it again. I just remembered that I forgot to change "RN_Brig" and "US_Brig47" to correct their arcade stats and give them different "refShip.Model" lines from the vanilla brigs - they're slower and more manoeuvrable than the original types.
 
Will just share some thoughts on the ships.

- Dutch lineship: is this based on any real warship? I understand there's an existing Seven Provincien pinnace, but I prefer this as an analogue to that flagship because it's more unique and is slightly larger. So whenever I roleplay as Admiral de Ruyter, I automatically pick this awesome ship.

- La Couronne. This ship is huge. Was the real La Couronne this big? Wikipedia gives it a length of around 53 metres, I believe the model ingame is 60. One of my favourites anyways.

- Who designed the black paint scheme for the stock galleon? Was this patterned after any historical vessel?

- HMS Bellona's size is slightly smaller than Superbe. The way I understand it, Bellona was England's Temeraire, and they were roughly equal in characteristics. Additionally, Bellona had 74 guns, not 84. So, in the game I've changed the name to "mighty 4th rate" or something similar and made the caliber 12 pounders.

- Lineship1 was the original Black Pearl. I feel like this should be a unique ship that doesn't appear in random fleets. Instead, it could be an imposing pirate flagship - the strongest of them all, with 24 pounders - used by the Pirate King.

- Has anyone else thought of personally toning down the max calibre of the various ships ingame? I actually did an overhaul of ships.init in an attempt to match the real firepower of the ships. For example, Victory now has 24 pounders instead of 32, because 104 x 32 would far exceed the real Victory's armament. The problem now is this: I want older manowars like Soleil Royale and Trinity to have slightly inferiour armament. If I give them 18 pounders, they're barely tougher than the 3rd rates. If I give them 24 pounders, then they outgun the Victory, which doesn't make sense - Victory should be the toughest ship in the game. Can I make up new calibres?

- Likewise, I've toned down ships' HP. Endeavour now only has 15K, as in the stock manowar; brigs have only around 1000 HP, Surprise has 3200, etc.

- Dutch Convoiship. This thing is huge. Why give it a mundane name like "Escort Ship"? This feels like some precursor to the "60 gun lineship". It ought to be able to go toe to toe with the Spanish war galleon or even Couronne if handled well.

- Has anyone else entertained the idea of limiting certain ship types to specific nations for more uniqueness? For example, I've thought of limiting fluyts to Holland, and Manila galleons to Spain, maybe East Indiamen to Britain. Actually, I don't think the stock galleons should be available to any other nation. They are oversized cargo ships, not really battle worthy but super tanky and with hundreds of men in them. They really represent the height of Spain in the earlier eras. Rather, the "fast galleon" should be the generic galleon for all nations because it's also closer to the actual size of most real galleons.

- I've gotten rid of the original manowar because it's unrealistically large. Likewise, I'm a bit confused as to the role of the stock battleship. It's slightly larger than Superbe, but it also looks older. I don't want older ships in general to look bigger than their updated versions. So what I did, was imagine it to be an "old manowar" instead of a 3rd rate. But then again, it's not really a manowar because it has only 2 decks. By the time Trinity arrives though, it's effectively replaced as the top flagship.

- As older warships ought to be smaller or equally sized, the Warship models are re-imagined as precursors to the Superbe, instead of being old 4th rates, since they exceed the sizes of actual 4th rates like Centurion and Fwzp.

- Fearless warship. I would prefer to put the stock texture to use but currently don't know how. As it is the British version uses the typical cream/black scheme used by other colonial era ships. I've already disabled this scheme for both Fearless and Battleship (Arrogant) class because I want them to be earlier ship types. I wish the Centurion had this cream/black stripes scheme instead.

- Cursed ships. I gave these normal HP. There's nothing in the films to suggest that either Black Pearl or Flying Dutchman were nigh invincible. So, the Dutchman gets 6800 HP and Pearl 2400 HP (being an armed merchantman instead of a real navy frigate).

- I've toned down some of the "war" merchant ships. For example, there is one crazy pinnace that has 82 guns. I made these 9 pounders. Pinnaces/East Indiamen/Fluyts can have war versions, but they're still cargo ships, not rated navy ships.

- etc.
 
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GAMMA FINAL version of the Complete Ship Guide for Pirates of the Caribbean: New Horizons now released! (Release Date: 7th March 2022).

Check the first post for downloading it. It is done. This is my final release. No further changes will be done to the guide. Only small fixes will be done if errors are found. So for me, @Grey Roger , you can feel free to add these final versions of my guide to the next release of the mod. I have included the latest changes of 'Ships_init.c', which are not yet released. In my opinion, these latest changes are completely fine, and makes the ships stats' balance much more better.

There are now two files for this final release. The first one will be the ENGLISH version of the guide, whereas the second one will be the SPANISH version of the guide. The English one is final, while the spanish version needs to be checked for possible errors or mispells. If nothing is said, it could also be considered final.

You can now check it out, and give feedback on what do you think of it. Advices, suggestions and recommendations are welcomed for improving this guide.
 
I don't know if this is a bug or a problem with my game, but it seems that the bonuses given by jewelry don't work on Arcade (i.e., Sapphires give you +1 commerce, Long Perals give you +1 sailing, etc.). IIRC, the bonuses don't appply when playing in Realistic, which is fine, but in Arcade ALSO doesn't apply. Maybe is this a new feature of the newest release I didn't know...?
 
Try this version of "PROGRAM\InternalSettings.h".
 

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I tried, but no luck. Loaded a savegame, and it still has no bonuses from jewerly applied to my character. I will try a new game and see if this continues happening. If it still happens, I will open a new thread on the bug tracker. No error files, btw.
 
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