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Flashy exterior on an otherwise dull game?

B

benfinkel

Landlubber
Hey all. I've been playing for a few days, and I thought I'd share some of my thoughts with y'all.

My concern is that this game is a flashy pretty face on what is otherwise a dull, repetitive game. Please don't take this post as an attack, but rather an opening to a discussin.

I guess my first reaction to the game was that it is wonderful. The graphics are great and the control is perfect. The sword fights are cool and well animated, the dancing sequences seem to fit well, you can see all of the other ships on the sea, and so much more. I was really jawed for my first few hours of play.

I first decided that there might be less to this game than meets the eye after I got the first section of the map for my missing sister. After defeating the evil Baron Raymondo I got a tip on how to find more about my sister. I had to capture the Evil Baron Raymondo. What?? Didn't I just do that? How did this guy get at large again so quickly? SO I went and got him again, got another corner of map, and got my next clue: Go get the Evil Baron Raymondo. Are you kidding? I JUST did that. And there isn't anything different to do. Raise a small army, track down his ship, beat him, get a map corner. There are many more missing family members, and I have to track them all by this same mthod? Four corners for three memebers means that I have to track and defeat the Baron Raymondo exactly the same way tweleve times to finish the story. Super Mario Brothers anyone?

Then, it got worse. Rogue level is pretty easy (except for that insane dancing) but Swashbuckler is damn near impossible. Maybe I'll get better at swordfighting and be able to handle myself, but it feels like there should be an in between. Sneaking into or out of a town was the most painful experience of my life. I can't for the life of me imagine what they were thinking when the developed that. It's slow, plodding, aimless, and almost always ends in defeat. Hell, when you're sneaking out of town you don't even have a clue as to which direction to go. Dancing is similar. It takes forever and is a very finger twitch sensitve game. I don't really know if it gets any better because I can't successfully complete a single dance.

Sailing east is usually an exercise in pain. I realize that the wind in the Carribbean doesn't blow that way, but I'm not getting a particularly realistic vibe from anywhere else in the game, why do that here? It's supposed to be a light, fun game except all of the sudden I need to know about things like tacking and wind angles just to travel around the game world. By the end of my long holiday weekend I actually got anxious every time I wanted to travel East. That's absurd.

What about attacking a town? How come I have to be an enemy of that particular nation before I can attack? If I know that the treasure fleet just landed there and they are loaded with $$, I may just decide to throw that Spanish title right out the window and go get me some dough. Oops, no can do. I've got to defeat a bunch of their ships first, then go into another `long-winded` exercise in order to defeat the town.

Finally, none of the advances are really meaningful. I saw someone else on these forums point out that Diablo is a repetitive game as well, so what's the issue? Well, in Diablo the basic gameplay was repetitive but with each successive level you got new items, armor, skills, magic, etc... that changed the way you looked and the way you played and opened up new areas to explore. In Pirates!, I can barely tell the difference between my starting character and my `ten-year`-later, `all-pirates`-killed, `large-frigate`-sailing, `40-fame` character. Searching for treasure is the same, swordfighting is the same, nothing changes ever.

Anyways, that's my rant and I'm sitcking to it. I would LOVE to be proven wrong or told what I'm missing because really think this had the potential to be a great game.

--Ben
 
You can attack any town, if you go in on foot. I just discovered that not many hours ago (yesterday).

You've been playing this game for a few days. That alone shows that you found it fun. The true beauty of this game, like the original, is that you never grow tired of it in the long run. You've got your share of piracy right now, so just put it on the shelf and let it age a bit (like fine wine). I bet you'll be back and play a few more careers sooner or later. The problem is, today when we buy games, they're `short-run` investments, mostly. So when we get a game like this, it's hard to understand why people have been playing the same game for over 15 years. Well, give it time, and you'll understand. Just like good music, you grow tired of it, then you'll come back to it eventually.

(A side note: there's no such thing as a perfect game, and this has some issues too like every other game... but for the most part, it's one of the most perfected games I can think of, along with Sensible World of Soccer)
 
Sailing east is usually an exercise in pain. I realize that the wind in the Carribbean doesn't blow that way, but I'm not getting a particularly realistic vibe from anywhere else in the game, why do that here? It's supposed to be a light, fun game except all of the sudden I need to know about things like tacking and wind angles just to travel around the game world. By the end of my long holiday weekend I actually got anxious every time I wanted to travel East. That's absurd.

==

Agreed worst part of the game if this can be sorted maybe a speed up mod for me this would make the game a WHOLE lot better
 
Capt Star,

My gut is that you may be right. Only time will truly tell whether or not I'm going to enjoy it. One of the biggest mistakes with a game is to overplay it early on.

But at the same time, another game I am currently playing is NFS Underground 2. Now THAT is damn near a perfect game. They've managed to make every element of the game fun and have some bearing or purpose. Even pimpin' out your car, which would normally be uninteresting to me, is built into the gameplay so that it's actually a lot of fun to do.

AH well, it just seems like they could have made a much deeper experience out of the game instead of essentially `re-creating` the original.

--Ben
 
benfinkel, your first post sums up my exact feeling of the game. After playing for an hour you have already done almost everything there is to do. i wish sid would have added something else to keeo it fresh.
 
You took down Marquis Montalban in an hour? I must be doing something wrong...

And you can attack any town you want at any time you want by hitting them with cannon fire (spacebar) before you enter port.
 
I am the one who made the comment about Diablo being repetative. Why? Well, although a constant search for new items can be addictive, it's just a flashy, artificial way to stimulate depth that is not there.

Pirates is fun and easy to play. I work all day and dont want to come home and do spreadsheets (Port Royale).

Everyone has their own taste thats all.
 
I had a discussion on why I believe the game is not as exciting to me as it once was. Back in 89? when I was playing Pirates on my trusty C64, the game was fresh, new and great. When I heard this game was coming out I thought, Great! It was supposed to be based on the original, so I thought we would be seeing a more evolved version with more of what Sid has to offer now a days. So to sum it up for me, an Old fan of the original, the New Version just seems to be the same game I loved and played and I sit here and wonder why I paid $50 for this. Yes there is a few differences to the game, but overall it's essentially the same game with a fresh coat of paint.

To sum it up, for me. In 89, Pirates was fresh and new and great. In 04, it seems a bit lacking.
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-Cap`'n Toast+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cap'n Toast)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you can attack any town you want at any time you want by hitting them with cannon fire (spacebar) before you enter port.[/quote]Cap'n Toast, you have saved my life!!! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> Thanks, I was watching all day for their convoys to leave town, so I can take them and provoke the town into not letting me in without a fight. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dev.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":d:" border="0" alt="dev.gif" />

Ben, only time will tell if it is a good game. There are a few exceptions, like kill.switch, in my opinion, which is very boring. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile2.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":))" border="0" alt="smile2.gif" />
 
"You took down Marquis Montalban in an hour? I must be doing something wrong..."
No he probably hasn't, but how is it any different than taking down the Baron Raymondo or Capturing a Treasure Ship or Defeating Henry Morgan?



"I am the one who made the comment about Diablo being repetative. Why? Well, although a constant search for new items can be addictive, it's just a flashy, artificial way to stimulate depth that is not there."
I agree, however I think they did a great job of it. I was illustrating why I find Diablo 2's repetativeness much less offensive than Pirates!



"To sum it up, for me. In 89, Pirates was fresh and new and great. In 04, it seems a bit lacking"
A perfect point. It DOES feel like the same game with better graphics. Isn't it right expect more out of our games than we did fifteen years ago? I guess that makes this not a bad game, in fact I'm sure it will permanently replace Pirates! Gold on my Hard Drive, but I think the game's improvements don't reflect the industries improvements very well. As a software developer I have a good grasp on what is easy and what is difficult to program, and there are many things they could have included to deepen the gameplay that I don't think require that much creativity or technical ability to implement.

[/RANT]

"Cap'n Toast, you have saved my life!!"
Agreed! I'm glad to find that out... I suppose had I actually read the manual instead of tossing it over my shoulder. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

--Ben
 
Sorry to ruin your fun, but I've tried telling you that you just need to go in on foot, and you'll automatically have the option of attacking the town. Screw the spacebar, just dock your boat a few meters from town and walk in on foot. You'll have the option to attack town.

Am I a ghost around here?
 
I know what you mean about the repetitiveness of the game and I agree that it shouldn't always be the same character that provides the map pieces. There are a whole host of extra features which 'should' be in a game like this, but no game is perfect. I wouldn't call pirates the best game, but it's certainly not the worst. The upgradeability of the ships, collecting of items and trying to complete every task in the game does provide a long term goal.
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-BahBah`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BahBah)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sailing east is usually an exercise in pain. I realize that the wind in the Carribbean doesn't blow that way, but I'm not getting a particularly realistic vibe from anywhere else in the game, why do that here? It's supposed to be a light, fun game except all of the sudden I need to know about things like tacking and wind angles just to travel around the game world. By the end of my long holiday weekend I actually got anxious every time I wanted to travel East. That's absurd.  

==

Agreed worst part of the game if this can be sorted maybe a speed up mod for me this would make the game a WHOLE lot better[/quote]

Oh god sailing east is pure torture.

Going west:
<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />

Going east:

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/william.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":will" border="0" alt="william.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":c" border="0" alt="mad.gif" />

When I am going east my crew looks like this <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":c" border="0" alt="mad.gif" /> .
 
Try sailin' only north an' south? <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
heh, YOU tell Baron Raymondo not to go to the Gulf of Mexico... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/diomed.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":dio" border="0" alt="diomed.gif" />

...and then when you get there he's gone back to Trinidad... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_eek.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shock:" border="0" alt="icon_eek.gif" />

...By the time you get there he's at cuba... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":modding" border="0" alt="modding.gif" />
 
Well, that's the challenge of the game. If it was too easy, you'd be complaining! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> Ya just have to buckle down and learn to deal with the wind, or stay only in one spot and ignore that quest. It's not like it's a `game-breaker` or anything like that.

In recreationally playing the beta (after the testing was over and before I got the full version), there were times when I wanted to chase down all those rumors and hints and maps and I just couldn't get to all of them!

So many ships to plunder... <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" />
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-benfinkel`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(benfinkel)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"You took down Marquis Montalban in an hour? I must be doing something wrong..."
No he probably hasn't, but how is it any different than taking down the Baron Raymondo or Capturing a Treasure Ship or Defeating Henry Morgan?[/quote]

SPOILERS!!!

Well, taking down Morgan and finding a treasure ship does not entail sacking a hidden hideout full of Indians, and none of them give you 8 new crewmembers and 100,000 gold.
 
As for repetitiveness, there's one difference between original and this game. In original, you never saw other ships sailing, encounter started with a screen telling you another ship was sighted. In this game, that element of surprise and anticipation is gone. IMHO there are just too many ships with their types and flags clearly visible, thus the element of suspension and surprise is gone. This should be fixed in a patch or mod. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whippa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":whipa" border="0" alt="whippa.gif" />
 
A patch that REMOVES the ships? Would be a step back IMO. I like the surprise and tension in the original, but there must be other ways of getting that. There should at least be a patch that lets the other ships attack you, and you have no way to flee.
 
I'd like a patch that took away the ship's info and nationality until you got close enough for them to attack you back. That way, you might elect to stay away from that frigate if you were not in a position to take her... could have them attack you depending on your reputation etc.

I agree though, I think they could add a bit more suspense. Though I DO like seeing the other ships. Perhaps some consequnces to nosing around powefull galleon.
 
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