WIP Flying Dutchman Project: Cursed & Uncursed

[Legendary_Spider]

I was thinking about the work that's been done on the Black Pearl and the Queen Anne's Revenge, and it got me thinking that that the Flying Dutchman could use an upgrade. I gathered all the best reference pics I could find.

I don't know if any modelers would wanna help with this, but I'd love to at least give her a texture upgrade using the same technique of using photos of the actual ships like I did for the BP and QAR. Armada, I know I'm gonna probably need some help with the UV mapping to accomplish what I have envisioned. Are you willing to lend a hand? Firstly, I'll need one of those hand UV guides like you made for the Pearl and Revenge please.

I've noticed some modeling things that need to be tweaked, but even if we can't find anyone, I'd love to upgrade her textures at least. I think this has the potential of making the Dutchman looking tons better than it does already. I'll tackle it alone if I need to, but I sure would love some help.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Here's some more reference pics:

 

[Armada]

First things first: the Dutchman model is a pain to work with. I can't get the entire model into Maya because it exceeds 50,000 triangles, so part of it is corrupted.
What I'm left with is the deck and hull without the gunport heads, stern decorations, cannons and seaweed. See screenshot below:

In other words, this is all I can use to give you UV guidelines. The rest will have to be textured by eye, I'm afraid.

Secondly, the hull UVs on the current model are nowhere near good enough to fully appreciate any high-detail textures you make.
However, I did some work ages ago to try to fix that issue, by adding a new tile-able texture to the main section of the hull.
I didn't get round to finishing and exporting the model, but I should be able to sort it out and combine it with the existing model for you.

Thirdly, you might want to contact Bonjourmonami about his intentions surrounding the Dutchman. The last thing you want is to put hours of work into the textures for the current model, and for him to come along with a brand new model using brand new textures. If he is planning a new model, you should probably ask him to use your textures this time.

Let's not forget that your final textures could be modified for the uncursed version too.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

I don't think BM has ever had any plans for the Dutchman as far as I know of. Well this is a bit of a downer. I was hoping I could at least improve the textures. We just need a new model. Simple as that (One with a removable figurehead for the un-cursed version). I'll ask BM to see if he has any plans at all for the Dutchman, but last I heard, he only does Black Pearl models. There's better modeling tutorials floating around now. Guess I'd better get Maya back out and learn what I can.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

It's just so frustrating because I feel like the Dutchman isn't living up to it's full potential as far as appearance goes. And you know me and detail. lol Your work on the uncursed version is a VAST improvement of what it used to be. But I know the cursed version could look so much better, and I bet I could probably do something for the uncursed version too.

Perhaps I could persuade Bonjourmonami into it. I know he's working on that Pearl model, but the Dutchman needs a new madly so badly so she can live up to her potential. If it happens, at least I don't have to stress about the sails. I think both sets of sails are perfect as is.

I sent BM a message.

 

[Armada]

The existing model can be used as a base to create a new one, but it certainly won't be easy. Look at those stern details!
In the short term, I could give you what I've got and let you improve the textures, because the hull textures will be the same for whatever model we use, I'd imagine.
I can even remove the figurehead for the uncursed version, and then at least we'd have a good enough model until better one arrives.
Our best bet is probably to improve the textures as much as possible so they can be included in the B14 Beta 2.2 release in a few weeks' time.
Glad you like the sail textures, though.

Bonjourmonami actually did start on a Dutchman model a couple of years ago, but it was never finished.
He did say he might give it another go some time, so we'll see what happens.

 

[bonjourmonami]

If someone can put the most current FD model & textures on the FTP I should think I could do something, I do have the plans that disney released and a side profile of the Wasa/Vasa that I could use for some of it. but it would be good to have a picture that included rids to base the model on as well. Which would you lot prefer to have 1st, black pearl or flying dutchman? the only prob I can think of is the poly count, if maya can only handle 50,000, we're in trouble on the detail count.

 

[Armada]

Ah, it's not Maya that has a polygon limit, it's the OBJ exporter in GM Viewer that does. You need to use that to get the GM file from the game into OBJ format that Maya can read, and it only works properly for models up to 50,000 polys.
Anyway, I'll upload the Maya file I've got plus the modified textures later.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Which would you lot prefer to have 1st, black pearl or flying dutchman?

Personally, I think the Dutchman should be given 1st priority. Your last Black Pearl model is so beautiful, that I think we can afford to wait on your new and improved Black Pearl model to come out. The Dutchman desperately needs some work. I wanna get her to the same level of detail that you and I got the Black Pearl and Queen Anne's Revenge to. Remember how amazing they turned out?

We 3 make a good team. Your beautiful models combined with my (slightly psychotic) attention to detail on the textures and Armada's technical know-how of adjusting the UV maps yielded some pretty nice results last time.

Just a thought, and I have no idea if it's even possible, could we clone the skeleton figurehead off the Queen Anne's Revenge and adjust it to match the one on the Dutchman? Might save some work if it is.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Bounjormonami, I've uploaded the various reference pics of the Dutchman and Black Pearl that I've collected to my FTP folder. Hopefully those will help.

Flying Dutchman Reference.7z

Black Pearl Reference.7z

For good measure, I've also uploaded all the Queen Anne's Revenge and Empress reference pics I have just in case one day modders might need them.

Queen Anne's Revenge Reference.7z

Empress Reference.7z

I was able to texture most of the Black Pearl and nearly all of the Queen Anne's Revenge using these pictures. I'm sure I'll end up using the same method on the Dutchman.

 

[Armada]

I agree it would be nice to see a better Dutchman first. That's a necessity really, whereas the umpteenth Black Pearl upgrade is more of a bonus.
I'm fed up with people asking about a Dutchman model found in a Russian mod that looks "so much better" than ours, because we can't get it from them.
So really, it's about time we had another go ourselves.

I've just uploaded the Maya file of the Dutchman hull I showed earlier: Dutchman_Model_WIP.7z
The package includes three textures derived from the plans, which are used in the orthographic viewports.
Here are the textures I adjusted to work with the modified hull: Dutchman_Textures_WIP.7z
LS, I recommend you get the texture pack too, as I've included some Photoshop files of the textures with the layers I used, in case you want them.

About the figurehead, I believe it's possible to duplicate it. Shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

I've just uploaded the Maya file of the Dutchman hull I showed earlier: Dutchman_Model_WIP.7z
The package includes three textures derived from the plans, which are used in the orthographic viewports.
Here are the textures I adjusted to work with the modified hull: Dutchman_Textures_WIP.7z
LS, I recommend you get the texture pack too, as I've included some Photoshop files of the textures with the layers I used, in case you want them.

I'll have a look then.

I agree it would be nice to see a better Dutchman first. That's a necessity really, whereas the umpteenth Black Pearl upgrade is more of a bonus.
I'm fed up with people asking about a Dutchman model found in a Russian mod that looks "so much better" than ours, because we can't get it from them.
So really, it's about time we had another go ourselves.

Agreed. We have the talent required to make a truly stunning Dutchman.

About the figurehead, I believe it's possible to duplicate it. Shouldn't be too difficult.

That's good. After seeing how stunning the figure head on the QAR turned out, I know the Dutchman's figurehead can be just as stunning. All the elements are there already. From what I can tell, the skull needs to be reshaped back to a human skull (that includes the protruding jaw and the horns), the spear and goblet need to go, the rib cage needs to go and be replaced with the teeth-like ribs that that Dutchman has, one of the arms needs to be pulled back, and the other needs to go forward and grip the jib, then right in front of that, we need a nice flat scythe.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

This sounds great! I'd definitely be more interested in a new Dutchman than a new Pearl.
Would need to redo the submerging effects again too then...

 

[bonjourmonami]

How's this?

After studying the original blueprint, I came up with this. I did it basically to as a proper reference and to ask you guys if you're happy with it, mostly the railings, never been too sure about their proper shape, would've been helpful if disney had given us a few proper shots of her in her uncursed form. If you can see anything that needs to be different just tell me.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

It's looking good, mate!

Perhaps this will help. I dug and dug and DUG and finally found a pic of the uncursed dutchman that a someone had made a model of. I think it provides some excellent reference, considering in the movie you only ever see the bow and sides of the ship, as per the second shot that we've all seen before. I think the stern is open to a little creative leeway since it's never seen in the movie, but I think this pic can serve as an excellent guide. Note, the golden lion heads are missing on the side. Don't forget (as seen in the second pic) the "teeth" on the bow are quite small in the uncursed state.

I noticed a few things that need pointing out since we're in the early stages.
First is the helm has two wheels instead of one, as clearly seen in shot C. Also, I noticed the Dutchman has a belfry directly in front of the capstan, shown in pics B and C. Thirdly, that whole area leading to the helm circled in red needs to be redone a bit. In pic B, you can see two doors that are not in the current model as well as the fact that the steps look a bit different. The capstan also has the kraken on the top of it, but that could probably just be done with textures.

A.

B.

C.

Keep up the good work! This is gonna be an epic work of art. I know it.

 

[Armada]

Bonjourmonami: That looks like an excellent reference to work from!
I think for the finer details of the railings, you'll just have to use the reference pics provided by LS to model them by eye. They don't need to be exact, just a bit more spiky than the current model.
For the cannons, do you think you could make use of any of these: NewCannons1.7z ? They're improved and optimised versions of the cannons used on the current Pearl and QAR, using the same textures.
There are two sizes, and I threw in a lower-poly version in case either of the high-poly ones are too much. You may find the ropes aren't worth the extra polys they add, so you don't need to use them.

LS: Your first picture is not a model of the uncursed Dutchman. It's the Swedish warship Vasa, which appears to have inspired the Dutchman's shape, in part. Easy mistake to make .
I agree with your other points about the details on deck. It's always looked a bit empty near the helm, and the stairs are definitely wrong.
About the cannons I mentioned above, they're gonna need a nice seaweed-y texture. Are you up for it? Inzanegun1.tga is the texture to modify.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Well damn. I suppose we could still use it as a reference maybe. Outside of screenshots from the movie, there's just NOTHING on the uncursed Dutchman.

Oh I'm up for it. I knew before I proposed this project, that it would be a nightmare to texture. But I'm up for the challenge! My experience on the Pearl and Revenge will come in handy now. I'll be using pictures of the ship, pictures of sea life and whatever else I need to to get her looking beautiful. I'm looking forward to all the sea weed that hangs off the ship. That will be fun. Probably gonna need some of those special surfaces like you made for the Queen Anne's Revenge.

I can't wait to get started.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Another thing I noticed is how tiny the stern lanterns are on the current model. If you look at the actual ship, you'll see they're actually quite large.

 

[Legendary_Spider]

Found it! I think it's concept art, but it's something. Here's the uncursed stern compared to the cursed stern.

 

[modernknight1]

It's looking good, mate!

Perhaps this will help. I dug and dug and DUG and finally found a pic of the uncursed dutchman that a someone had made a model of.

UMMM, Maybe you should look at that picture of the stern you dug up one more time.

That IS NOT a picture of the Dutchman although it was in reality a Dutch design built by a Dutch shipwright in Sweden. Nor is it a model that someone built. That pic is of the WASA. It was the flagship of the Swedish fleet and sunk in 1628 on its maiden voyage. It was preserved in harbor silt and raised in 1961. It was carefully restored as much as possible. It sits in a museum in Stockholm and is depicted as such in the picture you have posted. It is the only surviving example of a complete 17th century ship.

As for myself I would love to see a Flying Dutchman modeled off of the WASA. In fact here is another one I would pay for someone to build. I can actually see how you could make this mistake. I have often thought that the Disney designers based the Flying Dutchman off of the WASA.

Anyone interested in this ship should look at these sites: http://www.vasamuseet.se/en/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_Museum

MK