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Can it top POTC?

D

donjn

Landlubber
I think its going to be tough. In POTC you can walk around and interact. You can walk through jungles during the sunset and find caves, etc.

With Pirates! it looks like you just have to click on "Visit Governor" while looking at light blue waters that look a little cartoony. Please dont tell me I am the only one a little concerned about Pirates.
 
Have you ever played the original Pirates? If you are a fan of the original then you wouldn't be worried. This game is not trying to be like Sea Dogs or POTC. This one is basically a remake of the original with some updates.
 
I have played the original version. It is a classic, original game.

You can't make a blanket statement that I am not a fan if I am worried. If anything, REAL FANS are MORE worried because they want this franchise to succeed and have been waiting a long time for a remake that does not require an emulator or special DOS tricks to get to work.

Obviously you missed my point. I am just wondering because there will be comparisions whether you like it or not. Whether its fair or not people will ultimately compare this with Port Royale 2 and POTC and I am concerned that the gameplay depth of those games will crush Pirates! underfoot.

We will see.
 
I have to share donjn's worries here. I too appreciate depth of gameplay and "good, engaging graphics that make you believe you are there" and possibility to interact with the world are nowadays part of that definition. Since they can be made, I'd appreciate having them. Can you imagine anything more beautiful than a sunset over the waters of southern Barbados while the waves are rolling against the shore, and your alter ego is walking on the shore after a day in the town?

Still, I hope that even if the first version of the game doesn't have realistic graphics, some modpack or extension or sequel will eventually provide them.
 
I think this is like trying to compare apples and oranges. PotC or Port Royale or Pirates, they are vastly different games, and coming from my Pirates! betatest experience, believe me, the new Pirates! game is a blast and there is a lot to it. It has recaptured the flavor of the original game but has improvements and "more stuff" added to it to make it just as absorbing and entertaining and a time stealer as it ever was... IMHO, it will not disappoint.

Just remember - Pirates! is NOT trying to be a different game, it is an update of the original - and to me, it does the job in an excellent fashion.

Also remember that what you've seen thus far in screenshots is the tip of the iceberg - there will be different graphics for each governor and daughter, each dastardly pirate, and all the villains, PLUS you will have the chance to alter your own graphic "skin" to suit your preferences. I believe that also means you can `re-skin` ships and even towns if you wish.

AND you have the whole Caribbean to sail around in - with many many many MANY more places to land and plunder or dig up treasure or have a battle or find lost cities, or whatever... You'll forget you've got a family to rescue! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

Remember the old game? This is it, only a thousand times better. (IMHO) <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" />
 
<!--QuoteBegin-donjn1+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donjn1)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have played the original version. It is a classic, original game.

You can't make a blanket statement that I am not a fan if I am worried. If anything, REAL FANS are MORE worried because they want this franchise to succeed and have been waiting a long time for a remake that does not require an emulator or special DOS tricks to get to work.

Obviously you missed my point. I am just wondering because there will be comparisions whether you like it or not. Whether its fair or not people will ultimately compare this with Port Royale 2 and POTC and I am concerned that the gameplay depth of those games will crush Pirates! underfoot.

We will see.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Comparing Pirates of the Caribbean with SMPirates! is like comparing Warlords with Civilization. There is very few in common even if the background is somewhat close (ships, pirates, trading and fighting, not necessary by that order). Even the approach to the game is completely diferent: SMPirates! is much more strategic than POTC, where even fantasy elements like undead are present...
Comparing Port Royale 2 with SMPirates! even if closer, they are still two very different games. PR2 is at heart an empire building game that happens to have ship battles inside (in fact it is clearly an offspring of Patrician 2, an economic simulation set in the Northern Europe). SMPirates is a game comprised of minigames (like so many of Sid Maier's games) that maqke sense all together. It is much more action oriented than PR2, that is for sure, having a much stronger element of role play.

Rgarding the depth of POTC, well, in its gold state it was not good, to be benevolent. You could not even name your character, if I recall well... yes you could go around in the 6 colonies (one more? one less?), having an almost always static environment.
PR2 IS a game with depth. But his aims are very diferent from SMPirates!. PR2 is an accurate economic engine but not much more than that (and as in itself is a very good game!). SMPirates! tries to give the player a little bit of everything, sacrificing depthness, but adding different experiences.

In my opinion, the last game I played that can truly be comparable in aims to SMPirates is Cutthroats! . The game was very, very ambitious, but failed due to show stopping bugs and a poor interface. The patched version however still is in my HD ready to be played on a weekly basis...

Finally, I really have preferred a more realistic feel to the game, instead of the cartoonish graphics. Let's see what the community can do with mods...
 
Look guys I understand they are two different games, apples and oranges, etc.

However, the media will compare them. Read all the reviews about any pirate game and you will hear comparisons. Why? Because there arent that many pirate games around.

They can be two different games however when I am playing I hope I get over the "I can do this in POTC, why cant I do this in Pirates!" feeling that may, or may not, come.
 
Well, I don't think Atari seems worried about any comparisons like that - and as far as I can tell, "the media" has already made their reviews from whatever `pre-release` they might have gotten...

If any comparisons are going to be made, it's likely they'll be the kind of comparisons that are between the original and the new versions.

A good question might be: Do these reviews matter when you make your choice on what to buy?

If they do, then the next question might be: Has this reviewer actually played the game - or in this case, BOTH versions of this game? And have they played the games they (presumably) are comparing Pirates! to?

How much do you trust a reviewer's opinion? Maybe that's the bottom line.

To address your "Why can't I do this in Pirates!?" question, I think we all do that from time to time... I never got over my experience in playing Redguard - and the only game that has ever come close to it since has been PotC - however I STILL say, "Why can't I do this in PotC? I could do it in Redguard, and that is an OLD GAME that came out AGES AGO!" It doesn't, however, lessen my enjoyment of PotC...

<img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" /> We're never really satisfied, are we? Maybe that's why some of us become game developers or designers, or crack our skulls on our monitors <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/modding.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":modding" border="0" alt="modding.gif" /> modding (if we can). <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="icon_wink.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
 
Well... I know there is a hard core fanbase of POTC on these boards, but that game blew chunks out of the box. And while the mods that I have played have improved the game exponentially, it is still not in the same league as the buggy beta version of SMPirates!.

I do agree with Cat that they are very different in approach to the same genre. POTC tries to be a MMORPG with NPCs. I love the "being there" feel you get with it. And sure, I'd love a Star Wars Galaxies sized game in SMPirates! and maybe some day we will have one. Personally, I think the media (especially the media who knows the first game) will have no trouble comparing this version against the original and not against the other "piratey" games that are out there. If anything, they will say that SMPirates! is what Cutthroats, POTC, Seadogs and a half dozen others over the last 10 years have wished they could have been.

I am sure that Port Royale does some things better than SMPirates! and I am sure that POTC has it's strengths too. But for sheer fun factor and replay value, you guys are going to be truly impressed.
 
<!--QuoteBegin-Cap'n Toast+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cap'n Toast)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->for sheer fun factor and replay value, you guys are going to be truly impressed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" /> What he said!!! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

I can't wait for the final version of Pirates! to be released. Playing the beta was fun - and I KNOW that with all the fixes and changes that were going on while we were testing and are probably STILL going on now, Pirates! is going to be awesome...

As Cap'n Toast says, even the buggy beta version (which I am still playing, LOL!) ROCKS!!! Heh...
 
<!--QuoteBegin-donjn+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donjn)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Look guys I understand they are two different games, apples and oranges, etc.

However, the media will compare them. Read all the reviews about any pirate game and you will hear comparisons. Why? Because there arent that many pirate games around.

They can be two different games however when I am playing I hope I get over the "I can do this in POTC, why cant I do this in Pirates!" feeling that may, or may not, come.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No game is perfect and surely you will find ways to improve any game to suit your style. From what I have seen so far, the only thing you cannot doin SMPirates! that you can (and must do!) in POTC is walking around the islands. I find it boring and providing a distraction from what is the objective of the game: to captain a ship (or group of ships) in the `1600-1700` era.

So, in pure Sid Meier style, I am expecting a game that is fun to play but not too serious. Also in Sid Meier style, I am expecting replayability aplenty.
I will bitch about the childish graphics, I will bitch about the corners cut in order to make it more fun, but in the end I will be playing it by Christmas... next year of course! <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

Also, I would like someone to clarify me if there will be an editor of any sort included in the game...
 
fer meself I'd be count'n de days tew get me hands on Pirates,it looks tew be a hoot,but me thinks ye can't beat POTC fer modabiltiy an de feel'n of being thar.Donjn fer that feel'n,why can't I do that in POTC,thar be a cure mate.
Grab a empty can O' beer,fill it wid rum,be sure tew place de can over de hole on yer face,{pereferbly de large one}poke a hole in de bottom O' de can an shotgun it, werks fer me. <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="xD:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> <img src="http://www.piratesahoy.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
Can't say much on the modibility of it. I know you can change skins. And I would bet you might be able to change the text in places, like you could the first version of CIV. But I don't know much more than that. The text part is just my gut though... no official reason why I think that.
 
I for one am totally bored by `first-person` `shoot-em`-up games wrapped in 'role playing' disguises. I appreciate the strategic nature of Sid Meier games and couldn't care less if they are implemented in ASCII art so long as there is something interesting to do.
 
I'm rather sure that Pirates! will provide moddability comparable to at least what you have in Civilization III. My bet would be on moddable ships (different looks, stats etc), moddable pirate skins, moddable cities and perhaps even moddable maps, although this last one is prolly not there in this version...
 
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->buggy beta version<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
was it pretty buggy or just normal buggy for a beta? and you said <i>Playing the beta <b>was</b> fun</i>. is beta testing over?
 
Betatesting is over, yes. And I'd say probably "normal" buggy - it wasn't TOO bad, really. Certainly playable, and definitely enjoyable. I think they mainly wanted to get our opinions about the game, rather than reporting any real bugs, as most bugs you'd report would come back as already reported or duplicate...
 
I don't think you can really compare them as was already stated above.
But I do think that POTC has the potential to be the best pirate game around.
POTC lets you really experience what it would be to be a pirate with the roaming of the islands and the sailing.

If Sea Dogs 2 ever comes out, I know what I'll be playing the most.
 
<!--`QuoteBegin-donjn`+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donjn)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think its going to be tough. In POTC you can walk around and interact. You can walk through jungles during the sunset and find caves, etc.

With Pirates! it looks like you just have to click on "Visit Governor" while looking at light blue waters that look a little cartoony. Please dont tell me I am the only one a little concerned about Pirates.[/quote]

I agree with you and what I really miss with Sid Meiers Pirates is that they didnt include more of the kind of things you say.

It would be great if you could sail around but also walk around in jungles and cities and interact more with the environment. They totally have dismissed this extra level that you could have included in Pirates and could have made it 10 times better than the original. Who is saying that the Original Pirates is the 'perfect' way to play the pirates idea. I think that the original way obvious isnt the best way. We have a new time today with so much more possabilities so why dont take advantage of them. When original Pirates was released most of the things donjn mentions was impossible to include.

It is good to get a solid start (which I think Sid M Pirates is) but you really can take the Pirates idea to another level. Firaxis has to be more openminded to succeed with that though.
 
I think Firaxis was in a tough spot. They are fully aware of the technology advances that exist today that would allow Pirates! to be a much different game than what it was in 1987. After all, these guys are game desgingers.. it's what they do.

But, given that, they were in a situation where they wanted to expand on the original game and improve it, without completely changing the game and losing the flavor of the original. When Sid made the original, he did not intend for it to be a realistic simulation of Pirate life and warfare. He always said it would be a more Eroll Flynn'ed swashbuckler in the Hollywood style of pirating. This is what we got in the original and even more so with this release (at least in my opinion, from the beta).

The new version IS 10 times better than the original. Is it as "walk through the jungle" immersive as POTC? Nope. Does not even intend to compete in that area. Taking the Pirates! idea to another level was not the intent I don't think. As I said above, it was more to expand the original while staying in that tradition (mission accomplished I say!).

If what you want is a tactical, realistic, gritty, 100% enivronmentaly interactive pirate simulation, then certainly the newest Pirates! offering is not for you. If you are looking for a swashbuckling, Piratey adventure game with an open ended play style and great replay value (not to mention a polished interface and what will be called a "complete" game, both of which I think everyone will admit that POTC was not in it's original version), then I totally suggest Sid's new Pirates! Just understand what it is you are looking for, and what it is that SMPirates! is.
 
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