Build 12.1(full)+preBuild13(base)+Beta1

[Black Bart]

I'll use this thread to post some impressions, and so you know exactly which componants i'm playing on. This was the recommended build from Pieter for me to try.

Previously before i had been playing just the Build 12.1(full), then with just the pre build13(base).

One thing i've noticed straight away as a difference between 12.1(full) or even with prebuild13, is how my Lugger now handles like a fully loaded square rigger! Seriously i was only just about managing 3.5 knots in a 22 knot wind coming at me at 90 degrees to portside. Even with that wind behind me at around a 45 degree angle to the stern i was only reaching 7-8 knots! what goes into calculating the speeds you can achieve in a given wind? how much does load(cargo) and sailing skills come into it?

I think something has been changed in the beta(1) to cause this effect as its the first time sailing in 3D felt so painful - no wonder my idea of a full 3D sailing mode mod wasn't greated so warmly <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

realism vs fun - this might need relooking at. The top speed of my Lugger is 15 knots or there abouts. So unless i get a force 9(or +30knot) blowing behind me from 45 degrees, i'll never even get close to this - at the momment i'm not even sure this would do it.

Looking at the sail configuration of the Lugger and most of the non square-riggers it can trim its sails through about 200 degrees, maybe a little less. Still in this new sailing model i have to have the wind within an 80 degree arc either side of the ship to go forward. It just seems a little too tight, whatever new model has been introduced into the beta for this. I can't imagine what sailing a square rigger is like now <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/piratesing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="piratesing.gif" />

Other than this quite large and noticable change i'm loving all the extra stuff people have added, pretty much all the things i brought up in my 'new mod ideas+current mod polishing' thread have been addressed in the pre-build13 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />

I'll post more as time goes on, please feel free to comment/point me in the direction of area's i could look at to compare the code changes in the sailing model.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

For all I know not many things have been changed to the sailing model at all. So I don't understand why you would experience such a notable difference. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

 

[LarryHookins]

<!--quoteo(post=165699:date=Oct 5 2006, 12:52 PM:name=Black Bart)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black Bart @ Oct 5 2006, 12:52 PM) [snapback]165699[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
realism vs fun - this might need relooking at. The top speed of my Lugger is 15 knots or there abouts. So unless i get a force 9(or +30knot) blowing behind me from 45 degrees, i'll never even get close to this - at the momment i'm not even sure this would do it.
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Actually, you are exactly right. The 15 knot "top speed" of the lugger will only be achieved with a 30 knot wind blowing from the "best angle" which is about where you describe. This is due to using realistic sailing intead of arcade sailing. If you use arcade sailing, you will sail at about the same speed as the wind is blowing.

To switch to arcade sailing, click on the Options button on the main menu, click on Sailing Mode and select Arcade Sailing.

Or give realistic sailing a try. It makes for a much more realistic experience. Yeah, you'll be slower, and you can't sail very close into the wind, but it does make sailing more interesting.

Hook

 

[Petros]

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Black Bart
Keeping Realistic sailing in "Options Screen" On, but also turning off the "NKB realistic sailing mod" in the Buildsettings.h file might be a good compromise.

 

[Black Bart]

<!--quoteo(post=165702:date=Oct 5 2006, 06:13 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Oct 5 2006, 06:13 PM) [snapback]165702[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
For all I know not many things have been changed to the sailing model at all. So I don't understand why you would experience such a notable difference. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
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strange - i'll try without the beta(1), so just the pre-build13 in place and see if the difference is really as great as it seemed yesterday. I was wondering if the effect of sailing skills has been modified or maybe cargo weight plays a bigger role in the beta(1). I'm pretty sure something has changed - the difference was immediately noticable, i was checking all my ship stats to make sure i had repaired everything before sailing(which i had).

I'm roughly only able to move 50% as fast in any given wind/direction as i used to be.For example in the 22knots at 90 degrees to port wind - i would normaly(even with a very low sailing skill) be getting around 9 knots in the lugger, with a full cargo, with no damage to the ship in realistic sailing mode.

If nothing has changed it could be because i dont have a navigator selected in the ship crew - i'm using my carpenter instead as he has a higher sailing skill(4 as opposed to the 2 of my navigator)? Although i'm under the impression that shouldn't matter yet(i know we are talking about enforceing crew specific job posts for a later build), the game picks the best skill from whomever is in a group and uses that?

<!--quoteo(post=165702:date=Oct 5 2006, 06:13 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Oct 5 2006, 06:13 PM) [snapback]165702[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Actually, you are exactly right. The 15 knot "top speed" of the lugger will only be achieved with a 30 knot wind blowing from the "best angle" which is about where you describe. This is due to using realistic sailing intead of arcade sailing. If you use arcade sailing, you will sail at about the same speed as the wind is blowing.

To switch to arcade sailing, click on the Options button on the main menu, click on Sailing Mode and select Arcade Sailing.

Or give realistic sailing a try. It makes for a much more realistic experience. Yeah, you'll be slower, and you can't sail very close into the wind, but it does make sailing more interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Avast mr Hook! - i love the modding you've done to PotC sir, most excellent. And i reel in terror at the thought of hitting 30 knots in a wooden hull in the arcade mode - taint be natural! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" />

Since very early on in my PotC experience(on xbox around three years ago) i dumped the arcade setting from my game - i am a person who likes realism in my games as much as possible, and as i sail 80% of my trips around the game in the 3D sailing mode, i wouldn't have it any other way <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="keith.gif" />
But unless not having the navigator selected in one of my officer slots IS the reason, then i can only think some code/parameters have been changed in the beta(1)?

I know sailing is slow, especially old style wooden hulls(i've been lucky enough to try it for real) - but something just seemed of in my experience yesterday - my ex-oysterman had an average cruising speed of around 5 knots in light to medium winds, unless it was heading directly(give or take 10 degrees either side) into the wind. But anyway i digress. Something definately seemed to have made a considerable difference to my attainable ships performance in the beta(1) game i was trying yesterday - so i'll need to do more testing <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Petros!

Thanks for the pointers, i'll go look into the NKB realisitic sailing mod - was this a new addition in the beta(1)?
Maybe it needs a little tweeking? I could totaly live with any changes if it relates to sailing skills and/or cargo load. These things i can either improve(sailing skill) or live with(a heavy ship with the same amount of sail area does go slower).

And i cant say how much i love many of the things that are in the beta, new ships cabins is a great addition as is pretty much all of the other bits i 've noticed so far. I have found bugs/issues here and there(and will post them in the correct thread when i've got a reasonable list), but overall the difference between stock PotC and build 12.1(full) was amazing but the difference between 12.1(full) and the pre-build13+beta is another massive leap into improving the game - i'm blown away by what you guys(and gals!) have done <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

 

[LarryHookins]

I've noticed that when I go from an established character to a new character, everything seems a lot slower. Lower sailing skill, no speed perks. And I do know that a full load of cargo will slow you down a heck of a lot over a mostly empty ship. The difference is dramatic.

I haven't tried Beta 1 yet, so I don't know if there are specific changes in the code that would cause slower speeds. I've run WinMerge and haven't seen any changes that should cause it.

I love sailing in the game. I've sailed around a few islands several times, just for fun, ducking in and out of the various coves. I've also sailed from Redmond to Hispaniola, I think, in real time. Took about an hour.

When you get close to the next island, you see the bottom of the island in the water, but nothing else. And if you look in the right direction with your spyglass, you can get ranges to ships still back at the old island. The instant I went to worldmap, I got "Land Ho!" and when I went back to my ship, I was next to the island.

One of the projects I'd like to work on eventually is making real time sailing betwen islands possible without ever leaving your ship to go to the worldmap. I don't know if such a thing is possible, but I might find a way, including having encounters with other ships along the way. Not everyone will think such a thing is fun, but now that I know there are at least two of us who do, I'll look into it again.

I'm glad you're enjoying my mods. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> I mostly make them for myself, so it's comforting to know others like them too.

Hook

 

[Black Bart]

Argh! a pirate after me own heart <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" /> I've been having such conversations with Pieter about the possibilities of sailing between islands in 3D mode.
I'm 100% with you on trying to make it possible to sail between ports in the 3D sailing mode, at present i use the same kind of method you mentioned to get around.
I'll sail in realtime towards my destination Island, using the geography of the coastline of my starting island to get me into a good launching out point, then set the bearing in the directon of my destination island.

I find(in stock PotC) i would sail for around 30-40mins between most island 'hops', then go into the map sailing mode so the island+ship graphics can load, then back into 3D sailing mode for the landing. With the new Island locations in the current build13 i'm playing some of the distances have increased.

I've had a couple of ideas on possible ways of triggering random encounters while in 3D and the port-to-port sailing thing. At some point we should start a seperate thread for this, it sounds like we both have exactly the same wishes for improving that part of the game.

I'm having a go at play-testing at the moment, but at some point(maybe for build 14?) we should have a real go at seeing if its possible to realise our dream of constant sailing!

As for the possible reasons for my percieved change in the sailing model(lack of speed for a better term), i agree what you mention could be part of the reason. Usualy(in pre beta(1) that i've noticed) those effects weren't as extreme though - i really thought something was wrong, like my ship wasn't fixed or my crew not assigned etc.

I was at game start(and have been over the last week while trying the various builds+mods etc) - perfect health ship(100%+100%), full crew(46 or 49 for lugger?), sailing stat of 4(my carpenter), full cargo(lots of sandlewood for redmond). And compared to either stock PotC, PotC+12.1(full), PotC+12.1(full)+pre-build13(base)+update; the noticable difference when adding beta(1) was quite servere: about a 50% speed decrease compared to previous games. I'll test some more to be sure.

My gut/initial feeling is the line between fun and realism might need to be shifted back to fun IF anything has been changed, but there could be mitigating circumstances like i mentioned above that could make me accept any changes that might have been made e.g If i knew improving my sailing skill would allow me the reach the kind of sailing performance for realisitic mode that i have experienced in previous builds that would be fine in the context of the game and becoming a better sailor <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

 

[LarryHookins]

I just checked. There haven't been any changes to the speed calculations in AIShip.c since build 12. They may have changed the speed difference from cargo weight, so I may check that out next. Looks like everything else is the same.

Or you may have somehow gotten a really slow ship. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> I know they have random variations in the various ships. But the differences shouldn't be severe enough for what you describe.

Hook

 

[CouchcaptainCharles]

<!--quoteo(post=165807:date=Oct 6 2006, 11:31 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Oct 6 2006, 11:31 AM) [snapback]165807[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
One of the projects I'd like to work on eventually is making real time sailing betwen islands possible without ever leaving your ship to go to the worldmap. I don't know if such a thing is possible, but I might find a way, including having encounters with other ships along the way. Not everyone will think such a thing is fun, but now that I know there are at least two of us who do, I'll look into it again.
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There are at least THREE who do <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> And probably many more. Actually that wish has often been expressed.

It hasn't been done yet cause there are -you may already know that- two major problems:

-each single island is a seperate model in 3d seaview. So you can't sail to other islands cause there ARE no other islands in that model.
What one could do is to reload from one islandlocation to another one DIRECTLY without loading the map in between. That could be triggered by a bunch of checks for distances, e.g. "if player is 100NM east of Oxbay reload to FdF" etc.

-the other problem you have already mentioned: without changes in the shiptraffic, i.e. new encounters, you'd be sailing alone on an empty, neverchanging sea once you had left the initial islandtraffic behind. That would probably get boring pretty soon.
One possible solution: check the distance to the coastraider characters -who do the coastal traffic-, and if one of them has disapeared from view reposition him to a random position somewhat ahead of the player. And maybe give him another ship and/or nation, so that you'd get the impression that another ship has appeared.

 

[LarryHookins]

That's pretty much how I figured it would have to be handled. But instead of moving the coast raiders, we can have some "open sea". If we're going to switch locations anyway, we might as well switch locations to open sea when appropriate.

My latest thoughts are when you're far enough away from one island, but not close enough to any other islands, you're in open sea. We can handle the switch at the top of the hour when the weather updates are done.

When you get close enough to another island you switch from open sea to that island. I'm not sure how to handle storms and such yet... but I've heard talk that you can see the edge of a storm if you're in the right place. I've never seen it.

Will take a bit of tweaking in any case.

Hook

 

[CouchcaptainCharles]

<!--quoteo(post=165809:date=Oct 6 2006, 11:45 AM:name=Black Bart)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black Bart @ Oct 6 2006, 11:45 AM) [snapback]165809[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I find(in stock PotC) i would sail for around 30-40mins between most island 'hops', then go into the map sailing mode so the island+ship graphics can load, then back into 3D sailing mode for the landing. With the new Island locations in the current build13 i'm playing some of the distances have increased.
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<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Black Bart, welcome to the forum.

Around each island is a circle. If you are within that circle you can reload from mapview to that island. The radius of that reloadcircle is IIRC defined in the file worldmap\worldmap_init.c, like this:

worldMap.islands.Oxbay.radius = 130.0;

If you increase that radius you should "reach" that island earlier(probably needs New Game or Reinit to take effect). But be careful with the increase, I don't know what happens if the reloadcircles of neighbouring islands overlap.

There is even a way to make those reloadcircles visible on the map, but the datails have disappeared in my Alzheimer's holes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=165840:date=Oct 6 2006, 02:58 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Oct 6 2006, 02:58 PM) [snapback]165840[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
If we're going to switch locations anyway, we might as well switch locations to open sea when appropriate.
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Good idea gameplaywise, but is there a way to determine your distance to other islands if you are in the location "open sea" ? Though there must be one, otherwise the game wouldn't know where to position you if you go to the map.

 

[LarryHookins]

It appears that the game keeps your coordinates on the worldmap at all times. If we can get the distance to various islands, or the coordinates of the island, we shouldn't have any problems.

Hook

 

[Petros]

<!--quoteo(post=165804:date=Oct 6 2006, 05:10 AM:name=Black Bart)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black Bart @ Oct 6 2006, 05:10 AM) [snapback]165804[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Petros!

Thanks for the pointers, i'll go look into the NKB realisitic sailing mod - was this a new addition in the beta(1)?
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It was added after Build 12, long ago so I'm not sure if it is in B12.1 but it definitely is in Post B12 which became Pre-B13.
From what I recall, it also cancels your boarding and master boarding perks.

It's setting is in the "Buildsettings.h" file.
Turning it off while keeping the Options screen "Realistic" setting On is what you should try.

 

[Doober]

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" /> Wow! if you could sail from island to island in 3D mode and have ships generate along the way, that would be the coolest thing ever!

 

[Black Bart]

<!--quoteo(post=165841:date=Oct 6 2006, 02:13 PM:name=CouchcaptainCharles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CouchcaptainCharles @ Oct 6 2006, 02:13 PM) [snapback]165841[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" /> Black Bart, welcome to the forum.

Around each island is a circle. If you are within that circle you can reload from mapview to that island. The radius of that reloadcircle is IIRC defined in the file worldmap\worldmap_init.c, like this:

worldMap.islands.Oxbay.radius = 130.0;

If you increase that radius you should "reach" that island earlier(probably needs New Game or Reinit to take effect). But be careful with the increase, I don't know what happens if the reloadcircles of neighbouring islands overlap.

There is even a way to make those reloadcircles visible on the map, but the datails have disappeared in my Alzheimer's holes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=165840:date=Oct 6 2006, 02:58 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Oct 6 2006, 02:58 PM) [snapback]165840[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
If we're going to switch locations anyway, we might as well switch locations to open sea when appropriate.
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Good idea gameplaywise, but is there a way to determine your distance to other islands if you are in the location "open sea" ? Though there must be one, otherwise the game wouldn't know where to position you if you go to the map.
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Thanks for the welcome
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />

i think if the reloadcircles overlap it could be the end of the world(or maybe my ship will drop of the end of the world?) - so i may leave them alone for now. Still the thoughts on using distance that both yourself and Hook have mentioned were exactly my thoughts also.
As a longtime realtime 3D sailor in PotC i have noticed your position relative to the mini-map sailing screen is always plotted - many a time i've gone of to do something else while sailing, then come back to find when i go into the mini-map sailing screen that i've sailed right through or past the island i was meant to be going to.

So yes your position on the mini-map is plotted and stored somewhere while in the 3D sailing mode - this can be used i'm sure like Hook mentioned.
Maybe the easiest method would be to use that info and at the right moment(maybe something to do with that radius of the reload circle?maybe not?) or distance you would call an auto-load into the mini-map screen, aim to get the "land-ahoy" speech than be auto-loaded back into 3D sailing mode. This will allow the Island to be loaded in. It would need to not interfere with those that want to sail in the mini-map mode though - so an elegant solution to my nasty hatchet job suggestion would be needed.

And i had the same thoughts as yourself again with the spawning of ships - distances are calculated between ships(as with the spyglass) so at a certain distance from the players stern ships you are leaving behind could be re-born somewhere ahead of the player, with the random ship type thing you mentioned. I dont know what limits are set for how many ships can live in the 3D sailing mode at once, so that might need to be thought about?

As for weather - well its great we now have changeable weather atlast, but i've got a few ideas that may be possible(again i'm not familiar with the code of PotC - or C++ in general, but have programed alongtime ago, so can think about the process). At present every game hour(i think) it checks weather states and selects a new one(not sure of the parameters) seemingly randomly.

The way i was thinking it might be able to be added into the port-to-port sailing mod/method, would be to see if we can store the previous weather state, then seed any future change to be within closer parameters of that previous weather state, rather than a purely random next weather state. So you would end up with a more realistic transition over all, and probably a more realisitc sailing experience?(after lots of testing!). Keep an element of complete weather change a possibility(its the caribbean after all!), but aim for a smoother transition overall. What would be realy great would be to incorporate storms into this model - say if you have a running 20+ knot wind, that shifts up a gear to a 30+, then you have an increased chance of getting a storm(load the storm screen thing). Something like that.


Oh and as for the weirdness i was having with the beta(1) sailing model and lack of speed - well i did go back and test it today and couldn't replicate that max 3.5knots in a 22knot crosswind i had got previously. infact as mr.Hook has confirmed for me, the code doesn't seem to have changed, so i've got no idea - i was just going very slowly yesterday???? the(broken) beta(2) i was play testing today performed perfectly in the sailing speed stakes. I may look at tweaking my game at some point in terms of the lighter ships ability to sail closer to the wind, and probably try to reduce the drop off when the wind is coming from the stern, all just small changes + 1 knot here or there. Or have a go at Petros suggestion and see how it feels.

Still if the new beta(2) we may get soon is a fun to sail as the old beta(2) i may leave it for a while <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

 

[LarryHookins]

I did considerable analysis on the ships in older versions. Here are some numbers for your amusement.

Sloop, indicated speed of 10.5. It will sail at that speed in a 30 knot wind, lightly loaded, no sailing skills or perks, with wind coming from the "best angle" of 113 off the bow. Loading the ship decreases speed, sailing skill and perks increase it.

Running before the wind, wind directly astern, 8.5 knots.
Running at "best angle" of 113 off the bow, 10.5 knots.
Beam reach, wind 90 degrees off the bow, 12.2 knots.
Close hauled, wind 27 degrees off the bow, 6.8 knots.

ManOWar. Indicated speed of 13.65 knots.

Running before the wind, wind directly astern, 12.3 knots.
Running at "best angle" of 158 off the bow, 13.65 knots.
Beam reach, wind 90 degrees off the bow, 7.1 knots.
Close hauled, wind 68 degrees off the bow, 5.6 knots.

Corvette. Indicated speed of 16.8 knots.

Running before the wind, wind directly astern, 14.8 knots.
Running at "best angle" of 144 off the bow, 16.8 knots.
Beam reach, wind 90 degrees off the bow, 10.2 knots.
Close hauled, wind 54 degrees off the bow, 7.7 knots.

And last, the humble lugger. Indicated speed of 16.8 knots.

Running before the wind, wind directly astern, 14.3 knots.
Running at "best angle" of 113 off the bow, 16.8 knots.
Beam reach, wind 90 degrees off the bow, 12.9 knots.
Close hauled, wind 41 degrees off the bow, 8.9 knots.

Some of the ship stats may have changed a bit, but not that much.

Hook

 

[LarryHookins]

Another calculation on the sloop. With a 30 knot wind 27 degrees off the bow and you're travelling 6.8 knots, the apparent wind is 36.2 knots at 22 degrees off the bow. Check my math on that one, would you? Note that apparent wind is not calculated by the game. Neither is course made good.

Sloops and schooners can sail pretty close to the wind. These numbers seem reasonable. If you know that you can get a modern ship sailing with a course made good closer to the wind, please let me know.

Hook

 

[Black Bart]

interesting stuff mr.Hook - they do actualy sound pretty reasonable, where can you find the info of those sailing characterisitics in the files? I would like to have a run through them myself at some point. Is the model complicated enough to take into account running with a strong wind that may increase overall speed?

what i'm thinking is in the case of the big square riggers - they generaly have lower set top speeds than the small guys, but i wonder about this sometimes. with perfect wind direction and all those sails i would imagine a ship-of-the-line may well overhaul the pirate in a sloop/lugger/schooner etc. All that sail area must give an advantage sometimes? Still i need to actualy get to a point where i own one of the big ships to play around with and see how the balance of play works overall.

Your adavantage is crew size and cargo space vs speed and closer sailing to the wind at present in the small vs large ships war. I think we could make this a little less cut and dry - or atleast play around with it. Especialy if we are generaly making the best big ships pretty exclusive(which they were)and difficult to get. They were the super weapon of the day, and i imagine any pirates blood would run a bit cold if he saw one in his location.

Thanks for that ship info matey - i'm of to do some research on ship types and performance. Oh and asking me to check your maths is like asking a blindman to aim your musket! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/poet.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":hmm" border="0" alt="poet.gif" />

NOTE(to all): i have no problem with them as they are in the game at present - i'm just curious about it all <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

 

[LarryHookins]

I was hoping that a sailor might have a easy way to determine apparent wind. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Every time I have to calculate something like that, I have to reinvent it.

The closest angle and best angle are in ships_init.c, given in radians, as closest point and best point. The speed is there too. The speed at any given wind direction is a complicated math equation, but if you want to set it up in a spreadsheet I can tell you how.

I was chasing a lugger earlier today in a corvette and there was no way I was going to catch it. Until the wind changed. With the wind from far aft, I had a 2 knot advantage on him. Shortly I was able to fire roundshot, then chainshot at his sails. Got his sails depleted enough that I could catch him even if the wind changed again. Sometimes the wind angle works for you, sometimes against.

So far I haven't seen anything in the game that goes against what I think these ships could do. If I had, I'd be complaining or fixing it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Hook

 

[Black Bart]

<!--quoteo(post=166068:date=Oct 7 2006, 11:06 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Oct 7 2006, 11:06 AM) [snapback]166068[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I was hoping that a sailor might have a easy way to determine apparent wind. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Every time I have to calculate something like that, I have to reinvent it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" /> well i used to use the 'wind on the face' method! or the radio forcast. i had a nice little digital readout for actual knots of the boat. I saw someone mention recently that they wished they had a way to tell what the weather would be doing before going to sea(in the game), which i can understand sometimes. a bit of seaweed? a barometer?

<!--quoteo(post=166068:date=Oct 7 2006, 11:06 AM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Oct 7 2006, 11:06 AM) [snapback]166068[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
The closest angle and best angle are in ships_init.c, given in radians, as closest point and best point. The speed is there too. The speed at any given wind direction is a complicated math equation, but if you want to set it up in a spreadsheet I can tell you how.

I was chasing a lugger earlier today in a corvette and there was no way I was going to catch it. Until the wind changed. With the wind from far aft, I had a 2 knot advantage on him. Shortly I was able to fire roundshot, then chainshot at his sails. Got his sails depleted enough that I could catch him even if the wind changed again. Sometimes the wind angle works for you, sometimes against.

So far I haven't seen anything in the game that goes against what I think these ships could do. If I had, I'd be complaining or fixing it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Hook
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And yes i agree things in the sailing model are fine, my 'blip' event hasn't been replicated(maybe i'd been on too much rum?) and i've been quite happy with the 3D sailing ever since - i havent been able to replicate that poor speed performance again.

Still after ironing out beta3 and trying to get build13 good to go - i'd be more than happy to share a rum and bash around ideas for the port-to-port sailing mod thing and any other ideas that could help us indulge in our high seas fantasys <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />