Need Help Black Pearl no smoke and no skeletons?

[Lonious]

The costume is the dead giveaway.
View attachment 40102

As an aside, doesn't this conflict with the original back story? Here, he's already on the Wicked Wench and a pirate there. Wasn't he supposed to have been hired by Beckett before being given the Wench?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

As an aside, doesn't this conflict with the original back story?

According to the PotC 5 backstory, Jack got his compass given to him in that "One Defining Scene"(TM).
According to DMC, he clearly got it from Tia Dalma instead.
Conflicting backstory seems to be the name of the game here.
As in: whoever wrote the script didn't even care about what was in the films; let alone outside.

As far as I'm aware, while captaining the Wench, Jack worked for Beckett.
Though I might have to re-read "The Price of Freedom" again to check the official backstory.
So indeed Jack with the Wench as a pirate seems not to fit...
Unless he turned pirate, ran into Salazar, and only later got caught by Beckett to get his ship burned and sunk.

But really, it seems clear there's been little care about "lore".
Just "whatever excuse puts silly spectacle on the screen".

Such a shame...
This world and these characters could easily stand a more serious approach.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

As an aside, doesn't this conflict with the original back story? Here, he's already on the Wicked Wench and a pirate there. Wasn't he supposed to have been hired by Beckett before being given the Wench?

As a writer, it's one of my biggest pet peeves: a story or series of stories that - either carelessly or wilfully - ignores its own internal canon. The result can be trivial, or it can result in fundamental changes to key characters or events. Star Wars is one of the worst offenders, to the point it's become a common narrative device.

You're right, Jack was working for the EITC under Cutler Beckett, presumably as an honest(ish) merchant captain. When Jack refused to transport slaves for sale, Beckett had the Wench burnt before Jack's eyes. Jack goes on to make a deal with Davy Jones to raise the ship, it gets rechristened as the Black Pearl, and the rest is cinematic history. Somewhere in all that, Jack gets the compass from Tia Dalma.

 

[The Nameless Pirate]

Didn't he actively free the slaves too?
I really liked this backstory, and the cut scene @Pieter Boelen mentioned.
One of the many nails in the coffin named "PotC 5" is this disregard for the original story.
In return they make Jack just a drunkard. He can't have a serious side, can he? Oh wait he does... And that was the whole point.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

Didn't he actively free the slaves too?
I really liked this backstory, and the cut scene @Pieter Boelen mentioned.
One of the many nails in the coffin named "PotC 5" is this disregard for the original story.
In return they make Jack just a drunkard. He can't have a serious side, can he? Oh wait he does... And that was the whole point.

If memory serves, Jack did free the slaves with Tia Dalma's help. He has a strong honourable streak, regardless of his attempts to deny it.

Another misstep of PotC 5: Jack never was in any real peril. When Salazar wielded the Trident and smashed Jack against every rock and reef with enough force to fatally pulverise the average human, Jack popped up like Wile E. Coyote, ready for more punishment. They turned him into an indestructible cartoon rather than a compelling human being.

 

[Lonious]

Don't remember what happened there at all.
Was Teague there at all??


Admittedly inspired on the official backstory.
There's something seen in an excellent why-was-it-deleted scene from At World's End.
And a vaguely similar story happens in the "Price of Freedom" prequel novel, written by the same author as the Star Wars Han Solo prequel trilogy.
Maybe one day I should re-read it; now knowing it was written by someone who did care about delivering quality.


Yes indeed!
Here's to hoping they can keep it up for part 2.
My bet is on something more Vernian, this time 'round.
A volcano was mentioned after all; and to me, in a setting like that, it makes me think of Snæfells in Iceland.


Ah; it's these lines from PROGRAM\NK.c:

            if(stf(rCharacter.ship.SubmergeDutchman)-48 <= stf(rCharacter.ship.CorrectImmersion) && sti(GetAttribute(rCharacter, "ship.PlayedSplash")) == 1)
            {
                Ship_ChangeCharge(rCharacter, sti(rCharacter.Ship.Cannons.Charge.Type));

Put '\\' in front of that Ship_ChangeCharge line to make the game ignore it.


She actually DOES have some code to help her really sail into the wind in PROGRAM\SEA_AI\AIShip.c:

    if(HasSubStr(GetAttribute(rCharacter, "ship.type"), "Dutchman"))        // Sailing Against the Wind
    {
        switch(sti(rCharacter.LastSailState))
        {
            case 0:
                rCharacter.Ship.Impulse.Rotate.z = 0.0;
            break;
            case 1:
                rCharacter.Ship.Impulse.Rotate.z = 1/10 * 0.2;
            break;
            case 2:
                rCharacter.Ship.Impulse.Rotate.z = 2/10 * 0.2;
            break;
        }
    }

But of course that still doesn't mean she's a motorboat and her speed is independent from the wind altogether.
If you want that, we've got Steam Frigates for that purpose.


Though the luggers and schooners not quite to the same extent.
They don't have a literally magical boost.

Will look into this.

Btw, I'm having a problem with collisions. Why don't ships get damaged when they bump into each other, or into rocks? This is something strange I noticed recently. I always crush smaller ships when I had a battleship/manowar in the stock game. Sometimes it would happen by accident.

 

[Grey Roger]

Back to the problem of non-skeleton crew: you start the game with some cursed coins in the ship's chest. What happens if you put some of them into the weapons locker? I've a vague memory that the crew take them, and then gain the benefits of the curse, namely increased HP - but do they turn into skeletons as well?

 

[Pieter Boelen]

As a writer, it's one of my biggest pet peeves: a story or series of stories that - either carelessly or wilfully - ignores its own internal canon. The result can be trivial, or it can result in fundamental changes to key characters or events. Star Wars is one of the worst offenders, to the point it's become a common narrative device.

In all fairness, I've been reading old Star Wars EU and am actually quite amazed by how much the different authors did try to stay true to each other's work.
They put in references back and forth quite a bit.

Which isn't to say there aren't blatant inconsistencies.
Especially once the prequels started landing, undoing certain assumptions that had been invented before...

If memory serves, Jack did free the slaves with Tia Dalma's help. He has a strong honourable streak, regardless of his attempts to deny it.

Han Solo style; eh?

I like to believe he was always a very good guy to begin with.
He's just been forced to turn seemingly questionable because he got burned a bit too many times by a thoroughly flawed world.
The big "do good, get bad" thing.
Or that's how I relate to him anyway...

Another misstep of PotC 5: Jack never was in any real peril. When Salazar wielded the Trident and smashed Jack against every rock and reef with enough force to fatally pulverise the average human, Jack popped up like Wile E. Coyote, ready for more punishment. They turned him into an indestructible cartoon rather than a compelling human being.

The curse of throwing too much fantasy around.

Such a tremendous shame. The first movie was good largely also in part because the fantasy element was minor.

Btw, I'm having a problem with collisions. Why don't ships get damaged when they bump into each other, or into rocks? This is something strange I noticed recently. I always crush smaller ships when I had a battleship/manowar in the stock game. Sometimes it would happen by accident.

Huh?
I don't remember anyone deliberately disabling that?
I wouldn't even know how.

Back to the problem of non-skeleton crew: you start the game with some cursed coins in the ship's chest. What happens if you put some of them into the weapons locker? I've a vague memory that the crew take them, and then gain the benefits of the curse, namely increased HP - but do they turn into skeletons as well?

Indeed the crew takes them.
At night, yes they do turn into skeletons.
It is also only at night that they get the increased HP.

The curse works exactly the same for NPCs as for the player.
With the only difference that you can take their coins away; just not your own last one (because that'd be too easy).

 

[Grey Roger]

Huh?
I don't remember anyone deliberately disabling that?
I wouldn't even know how.

Yes, NPC collision has been disabled, which means if you're in a 1st rate and you ram a tartane, you'll take damage and the tartane won't. It also means that if the AI screws up and the ships of an enemy fleet collide with each other, you can't just sit back and watch the enemy fleet sink itself.

Indeed the crew takes them.
At night, yes they do turn into skeletons.
It is also only at night that they get the increased HP.

The curse works exactly the same for NPCs as for the player.
With the only difference that you can take their coins away; just not your own last one (because that'd be too easy).

Ah, good. That means it's better than giving "CURSED_SHIP" to the player, which would make the crew skeletons by day as well. So the Black Pearl at the end of "Tales of a Sea Hawk" isn't quite true to the film, but Barbossa's crew is completely realistic if you curse them by putting coins where the crew can get them.

As for Jack Sparrow being a pirate while in command of the Wicked Wench, does anything in books or other non-film material state for certain that he wasn't? Obviously he'd have claimed to be an honest trader while talking to Beckett. And if he confined his attention to plundering Spanish ships, he might not annoy Beckett but he'd certainly annoy Salazar. (Or he might have sailed to Turks Island while it was being patrolled by British ships. He'd have flown a false pirate flag to get into port without the pirate fort attacking him, which means he'd have to fight the British ships, and it wouldn't take long for that false pirate flag to become genuine. At least, that's how I became a pirate while playing "Hoist the Colours", and Beckett either didn't know or didn't care so long as I brought him plenty of profit. Piracy - it's just good business!)

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Yes, NPC collision has been disabled, which means if you're in a 1st rate and you ram a tartane, you'll take damage and the tartane won't. It also means that if the AI screws up and the ships of an enemy fleet collide with each other, you can't just sit back and watch the enemy fleet sink itself.

Really?
When did that happen?

Ah, good. That means it's better than giving "CURSED_SHIP" to the player, which would make the crew skeletons by day as well.

Some misunderstanding here?
SHIP_CURSED affects only the 3D Sailing Mode crew appearance.
And only at night.

The Cursed Coins, on the other hand, affect gameplay.
Which includes crew appearance and HP at night in Boarding.
Plus, depending on the number of Cursed Coins in the Weaponslocker, I think it also gives the crew a boost in 3D Sailing Mode battles.

I can think of no situations where crews would be skeletons by day too?
Unless you override things with boardermodels; or assigning skeleton models to your officers...

As for Jack Sparrow being a pirate while in command of the Wicked Wench, does anything in books or other non-film material state for certain that he wasn't? Obviously he'd have claimed to be an honest trader while talking to Beckett.

I'd have to re-read "The Price of Freedom" to confirm.
The whole Wench business was definitely in there, as I recall.

Or he might have sailed to Turks Island while it was being patrolled by British ships. He'd have flown a false pirate flag to get into port without the pirate fort attacking him, which means he'd have to fight the British ships, and it wouldn't take long for that false pirate flag to become genuine. At least, that's how I became a pirate while playing "Hoist the Colours", and Beckett either didn't know or didn't care so long as I brought him plenty of profit. Piracy - it's just good business!

That's the freedom of this game for ya!
It all makes sense.

 

[Lonious]

Yes, NPC collision has been disabled, which means if you're in a 1st rate and you ram a tartane, you'll take damage and the tartane won't. It also means that if the AI screws up and the ships of an enemy fleet collide with each other, you can't just sit back and watch the enemy fleet sink itself.

Why has it been disabled? I need to turn this back on...is there a way?

 

[Grey Roger]

Huh?
I don't remember anyone deliberately disabling that?
I wouldn't even know how.

Found it, in "PROGRAM\SEA_AI\AIShip.c", function "Ship_Ship2ShipCollision()", also "Ship_Ship2IslandCollision()":

    ref rOurCharacter = GetCharacter(iOurCharacterIndex);
    if(!IsMainCharacter(rOurCharacter)) return; // PB: Collision damage for player ship only

As to when it happened: ages ago, probably Beta 3.5.

Why has it been disabled? I need to turn this back on...is there a way?

Probably so that you can't sit back and watch the enemy fleet sink itself by ramming each other or the nearest island. To allow NPC ships to take damage, edit "AIShip.c", find those lines, and delete them.

Some misunderstanding here?
SHIP_CURSED affects only the 3D Sailing Mode crew appearance.
And only at night.

The Cursed Coins, on the other hand, affect gameplay.
Which includes crew appearance and HP at night in Boarding.
Plus, depending on the number of Cursed Coins in the Weaponslocker, I think it also gives the crew a boost in 3D Sailing Mode battles.

I can think of no situations where crews would be skeletons by day too?
Unless you override things with boardermodels; or assigning skeleton models to your officers...

OK, my mistake, I've done a bit of checking. The "Tales of a Sea Hawk" Black Pearl does get skeletons by day or night but it's not because it's CURSED_SHIP. It's because function "LAi_GetBoardingModel" checks the character for the attribute "boardingmodels", and storyline Barbossa has that attribute set to "skeletons".

 

[Lonious]

Found it, in "PROGRAM\SEA_AI\AIShip.c", function "Ship_Ship2ShipCollision()", also "Ship_Ship2IslandCollision()":

    ref rOurCharacter = GetCharacter(iOurCharacterIndex);
    if(!IsMainCharacter(rOurCharacter)) return; // PB: Collision damage for player ship only

As to when it happened: ages ago, probably Beta 3.5.


Probably so that you can't sit back and watch the enemy fleet sink itself by ramming each other or the nearest island. To allow NPC ships to take damage, edit "AIShip.c", find those lines, and delete them.

When I deleted the lines (two of them, the one with "Island collission" and "Ship to ship collision", now I can't run the game. It says, Runtime Error...abnormal program termination.

I attached the edited AIShip.c.

 

[Grey Roger]

Try this. I've put back the "ref rOurCharacter = GetCharacter(iOurCharacterIndex);" lines.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

Found it, in "PROGRAM\SEA_AI\AIShip.c", function "Ship_Ship2ShipCollision()", also "Ship_Ship2IslandCollision()":

ref rOurCharacter = GetCharacter(iOurCharacterIndex);
if(!IsMainCharacter(rOurCharacter)) return; // PB: Collision damage for player ship only

As to when it happened: ages ago, probably Beta 3.5.

"I don't remember anyone" = apparently "I did it myself".
Bugger; my memory IS buggered!!

Probably so that you can't sit back and watch the enemy fleet sink itself by ramming each other or the nearest island. To allow NPC ships to take damage, edit "AIShip.c", find those lines, and delete them.

Thinking about it now, it might be because the AI sometimes isn't clever enough to avoid islands and otherwise might sink 'emself.
Especially with the mod-added "tacking" code that forces them outside the "luffing" range and basically overrides what their "autopilot" would want to do.

Based on that second thought, might be worth considering restoring the damage between all SHIPS; and only avoiding it for LAND.

OK, my mistake, I've done a bit of checking. The "Tales of a Sea Hawk" Black Pearl does get skeletons by day or night but it's not because it's CURSED_SHIP. It's because function "LAi_GetBoardingModel" checks the character for the attribute "boardingmodels", and storyline Barbossa has that attribute set to "skeletons".

Ah!
That makes sense.
Indeed NPC Pearls don't make use of the general "curse" functionality at all.

 

[Lonious]

Try this. I've put back the "ref rOurCharacter = GetCharacter(iOurCharacterIndex);" lines.

Thanks, this seems to have worked!

 

[Grey Roger]

Thinking about it now, it might be because the AI sometimes isn't clever enough to avoid islands and otherwise might sink 'emself.
Especially with the mod-added "tacking" code that forces them outside the "luffing" range and basically overrides what their "autopilot" would want to do.

Based on that second thought, might be worth considering restoring the damage between all SHIPS; and only avoiding it for LAND.

Alright, I'll re-enable NPC ship damage from collisions. (There's another function, "Ship_MastDamage()", which also disables damage for NPC's, and which won't be disabling it in the update.) I'll use the modified version of "AIShip.c" during the rest of my play of "Tales of a Sea Hawk" and, unless it does something silly, I'll put it into the next update. Then we'll see if anyone else reports weirdness.

But that comment about land reminded me of this:

That screenshot dates back to 2016, when a ship somehow started inside a rock, and probably stayed there because it wasn't taking damage while trying to break out.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

Admittedly, the pacing of the scene doesn't match the rest of the film well, but the information revealed more than makes up for it in my opinion.

And my favourite scene from the same film...

 

[Grey Roger]

Deleted scene: assuming that "Hoist the Colours" is very unlikely to be extended to cover all of "Dead Man's Chest", let alone progress to "At the World's End", I moved some of those lines to an earlier scene:

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

Deleted scene: assuming that "Hoist the Colours" is very unlikely to be extended to cover all of "Dead Man's Chest", let alone progress to "At the World's End", I moved some of those lines to an earlier scene:

Fantastic! It works perfectly. Especially with Jack's line, it's impossible not to hear it in Depp's voice.