Stable Build 13 Work In Progress

IncredibleHat · Nov 8, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ged @ Nov 7 2006, 03:56 PM) [snapback]170336[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
so would it be possible to add scrolling/menu selection with the movement/wasd keys?
</div>
This is how I have mine setup. When in dialog, the "W" and "S" keys select dialog options, and the space accepts choice.

When I hit "E" to bring up the battle interface (thats the thing on the lower left corner with all the icons), I then can use "A" and "D" to scroll right and left in it, with hitting space to select choice.

I never have to move my left hand from the 'wads' area at all. My right hand controls 'look' view. he left button is attack, and right button is defend (when in fight mode), and while 1st person sailing its spyglass zoom {left}, and manual cannon fire {right}.

Works real good =) I so hated the awkward feeling stock controls. To be honest, the stock controls is what made me 'shelve' the game for 2 years before getting back into it.

ged · Nov 8, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IncredibleHat @ Nov 8 2006, 06:31 AM) [snapback]170400[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Works real good =) I so hated the awkward feeling stock controls. To be honest, the stock controls is what made me 'shelve' the game for 2 years before getting back into it.
</div>
ya, lol, same here. altough im glad i managed to get meself to another try at it.
right now, especially with the build mod, ive fallen in love with the game <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

its like playing the good ole Pirates! from me Amiga500 days...

could you perhaps be so kind and enlighten me, how to set the arrow keys for menus to wasd?

(atm im stuck again with the 12.1 build, because i have some time for meself, and like to be playing joyfully.
ill get back to testing the beta when my flat is more occupated again)

Pieter Boelen · Nov 9, 2006

<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><i><b>Important</b></i></span>
So how far are we for the final release of Build 13? Could we release the current Beta as the final Build 13 Beta test version? If not, what are the things that really do need fixing before we <i>can</i> do that? Please discuss the important topics for finalizing te final Build 13 here.

<b>Things I would like to see for Build 13:</b>
- BuildSettings.h clean-up finished. I would do this myself. I had started the work, but now my time has become very limited and I would prefer it if somebody else would finish it.
- Random CTDs when in major battles fixed. This will require a lot of effort from fixers and gametesters. When this isn't fixed on short notice, I think we should release the final Build 13 anyway.
- RunMe.bat checked to make sure it works right for all language versions.

I forgot to mention: The final Build 13 will be a full download that doesn't require any other files, not even Build 12.1. It should be an easy .exe installer, even easier and better than the Build 12.1 one. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

IncredibleHat · Nov 9, 2006

The installer will be nice. And no 12.1 ? Heh... so, a BIG download. Not a problem for all of us with DSL or higher.

On the note of the CTDs. Well, we basically have isolated to them to when they occur, and if push comes to shove, we can put in 'block points' to prevent the actions from happening:

Menu CTD: just not allow menu use during 3rd/1st person sailing, they will have to go to their cabin to get to the menu system.

Weather CTD: just no longer allow weather to update during sailing. There is a BS.h toggle for this already, but defaulting it to OFF with a BIG FAT WARNING on it will be good enough.

Thats if we cant figure why in the frell these actually occur... which will definately require finding out when it was introduced, which is the next step I am going to try when I can, if I can in time. If we can isolate which update introduced the weather update CTD, and which update introduced the menu CTD... then at least we have a better grouping of code to compare with each to see what may have been changed/added that could cause such vile behavior. I don't ever recall BOTH of these problems existing in the early 13 updates... maybe not even in the 'base' 13 that is posted right now. I just can't go test right now... away from the game rig.

Pieter Boelen · Nov 10, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IncredibleHat @ Nov 10 2006, 12:37 AM) [snapback]170615[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
The installer will be nice. And no 12.1 ? Heh... so, a BIG download. Not a problem for all of us with DSL or higher.
</div>
I think I'll make a full Build 13 download and one that can be installed on top of Build 12.1. That way everybody can download what he needs without having to download too much.

LordDrow · Nov 10, 2006

I'd call that a gentlemanly good decision, Pieter. Not everyone has some sort of high speed connection. So making things a bit easier for those with slower connections will make things far more accessible for all involved.

I'm looking very forward to this guys, Kudos to everyone for the dedication and wherewithal to get this done.

Cap'n Drow

morgan terror · Nov 10, 2006

gimme! gimme! gimme! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" />

just kidding, take the time you need. and i'm NOT saying that you should take longer! can't wait!
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bounce.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":b:" border="0" alt="bounce.gif" />

woah that looks silly <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

CouchcaptainCharles · Nov 10, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Nov 9 2006, 08:41 PM) [snapback]170578[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
<b>Things I would like to see for Build 13:</b>
- BuildSettings.h clean-up finished. I would do this myself. I had started the work, but now my time has become very limited and I would prefer it if somebody else would finish it.
</div>

I could tackle that. 1.What needs to be done, 2.what are the criteria for "cleaning up", 3.is there already a thread on it, 4.how much time do I have? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Pieter Boelen · Nov 10, 2006

That would be grand, CCC! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :woot

" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />

1. As you can see in BuildSettings.h, it is very much unclear what each setting does. Also the "programmy" comments may put off beginning users from changing anything at all. The goal of changing BuildSettings.h is to make it much easier to understand and change. I would also like to have all "complicated" settings moved to InternalSettings.h so that the only settings regular users would really want to change are in BuildSettings.h and the others are in IS.h. I have already started this work as can be seen at the top of the file, but obviously I didn't yet come far.

2. The criteria are basically:
- Removing everything that doesn't add to the clarity
- Adding things that improve on the clarity
- Move complicated settings to InternalSettings.h
- Make the comments more understandable
- Group the settings together per category instead of per modder (after all, most people don't know who made which mod)

3. The only thread about it is this thread

4. You have all the time you need, but it would be nice if you could do it within a short amount of time. I would like this cleaned up file in Build 13, so the final Build 13 release date might depend on how fast you get it done. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :wp

" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />

ged · Nov 10, 2006

me, personally would like to keep the settings in buildsettings.h, and not spreadout in two different files. but thats just me.

one thing that bothered me, even if its only cosmetic, that i needed to take a lot of time, to align the colums and comments with each other, because.. well... they arent, and that doesnt make readability any better. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/bookish.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":mm" border="0" alt="bookish.gif" />

i dont know if thats important to you guys, but while youre at cleaning it up, throwing in the occasional "tab" and "backspace" to make everything nicely aligned should be the least work.

so, pretty please with sugar on top <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":ty" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

LordDrow · Nov 10, 2006

Aye, I'd be willing to help you with that as well, CCC. If nothing more than as a proof-reader and suggestion giver.

If there is anything at all I can help you guys out with, just let me know. I'll do my damnedest to make sure it gets done.

Cap'n Drow

IncredibleHat · Nov 10, 2006

Its aligned if you use a respectable text editor that has 4-space width tabbing and fixed width fonts/spaces. People bitched high to the moon about the change to the initItems.c file. Same deal, they were looking at it with like WORD or something equally as lame.

I like the idea of splitting into two files. There are a BUNCH of settings novice should NOT touch <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> So having those in InternalSettings.h is a good idea.

Pieter Boelen · Nov 11, 2006

If you want the file properly aligned, get Notepad++ from my site and open it with that. Unfortunately I can't make a file that alligns properly in both Notepad and Notepad++, so I chose to go with Notepad++ because most modders will be using a program like that and will see the file properly. And the people who are not modders can just get the program as well; it's not very complicated to use it and it really is much better than Notepad.

I personally think that separating the "complicated programmy" options from the "simple on/off toggles" is pretty important, because otherwise the users might get completely confused. Also there are a whole bunch of values that shouldn't be changed.

IncredibleHat · Nov 11, 2006

Exactly.

Basically, if the value has a 'point' in it, then its too complex and should be in IS.h. If its a 'word' you have to put in quotes, might also be a good one for IS.h too.

Those are easily messed up by those who do not know better, or are sloppy, and then they break their game, and come here and bitch about it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

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CouchcaptainCharles · Nov 11, 2006

RE Buildsettings.h

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cap'n_Drow @ Nov 10 2006, 09:34 PM) [snapback]170759[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Aye, I'd be willing to help you with that as well, CCC. If nothing more than as a proof-reader and suggestion giver.
</div>
Thanks for that offer, it would indeed be good if someone who has a fresh, unbiased view does a final check <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=" :yes

" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

So the goal of this "cleaning up" is to make the file more comprehensible and easier to use, especially for first time users, right? So all settings that go too much into the details, and those that require some modding knowledge shall be moved into InternalSettings.h, right?

Though I would move at least one setting back from internal: IMHO the surrendering of ships happens too often, and often without apparent cause, spoiling the battle for me. There may be others with the same view, and for those I'd move the surrender chance scalar into the Sea Battle section.

I think that it wouldn't work to "format" pretty "columns" by means of tab stops: the appearance depends on your editor and its settings, so almost every user will get a different appearance. And every exceptionally long variablename will cause another "tothgap".

How about this "format": the value one tabstop behind the variablename, and the explanation directly below. IMHO grouping each setting in such a distinct paragraph is easier to read than long zigzag columns:

<div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'>
// ======================================
// STARTING OPTIONS:
// ======================================
#define CHOOSABLE_NEWGAMESKILLS    0
    // 0: Have random skills picked on new game character selection
    // 1: Allow you to pick your extra skills on a new game

#define START_LEVEL    1
    // The level at which the player starts the game

#define START_MONEY    1000
    // The amount of money your party starts the game with, to cover your expedition's expenses

#define START_WEALTH    500
    // The amount of your personal wealth you start the game with

#define START_SHIP_NATION    0
    // The nation which built your ship determines the ship's stats
</div>

Two language questions:
Is " to cover your expedition's expenses" correct English?

Is "i.e." a common abreviation or is it too oldfashioned?

ged · Nov 11, 2006

err, sorry, i didnt know that thing with the text editor.
and no i dont use word, just notepad. it never occured to me, that something as minimalistic as notepad can actually be referred to as "lame" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

and the format you just posted looks absolutely readable to me.

and i think, "to cover your expenses" is correct. well.. it depends on what you want to say...
if you say"Will 5000gp be enough to cover your expenses?" it means "hey man, if i pay you that much, will you not loose any money while you do what i ask you for".

and i think "i.e." is still common and used.

IncredibleHat · Nov 11, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CouchcaptainCharles @ Nov 11 2006, 12:55 PM) [snapback]170928[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
So the goal of this "cleaning up" is to make the file more comprehensible and easier to use, especially for first time users, right? So all settings that go too much into the details, and those that require some modding knowledge shall be moved into InternalSettings.h, right?</div>
Right. Think like someone new to the build, and then try to origanize it accordingly. Seasoned modders or players of the build already know what to do and how to do it, so its a no brainer for them. But new people look at the current BS.h file and go WTF?!?!?!?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Though I would move at least one setting back from internal: IMHO the surrendering of ships happens too often, and often without apparent cause, spoiling the battle for me. There may be others with the same view, and for those I'd move the surrender chance scalar into the Sea Battle section. </div>
I agree whole heartedly. Honestly I think the default starting value should be MUCH LOWER, and those who want ships to surrender left and right can go change their setting file to whatever they like. For new-timers I have seen too many posts about ships surrendering much too quickly. If we set the default to much lower chance, and keep it in internalsettings.h... then it won't be much of an issue.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I think that it wouldn't work to "format" pretty "columns" by means of tab stops: the appearance depends on your editor and its settings, so almost every user will get a different appearance. And every exceptionally long variablename will cause another "tothgap".</div>
I'm a columns and rows guy myself, as I like to easily scan through settings and make my changes in a few seconds flat. However, thats just me. The format you show is difficult to quickly go through (again, only my opinion). However, it may be easier for the non-modder/new-player.

Maybe make InternalSettings.h columns and rows, as its more for the advanced tweakers. They prolly have better editors as they may also be messing with other header files as well <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

ged · Nov 11, 2006

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IncredibleHat @ Nov 11 2006, 10:30 AM) [snapback]170939[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'>
Right. Think like someone new to the build, and then try to origanize it accordingly. Seasoned modders or players of the build already know what to do and how to do it, so its a no brainer for them. But new people look at the current BS.h file and go WTF?!?!?!?
</div>
yeah, the first time i looked at it, it was kinda cryptic.
five minutes into the game, i already made connections to the buildini file,
and honestly... i didnt find it hard at all to work with it.
most stuff is really selfexplanatory. imho.

but grandma always said im a smart boy

IncredibleHat · Nov 11, 2006

Oh... and btw... NO_THEFT LOCKOPEN etc settings have got to be the worst setup settings in the lot. '60.0' turns it off? Eh?! '33.0' reduces change to just you ?!?!?!

Man. Talk about confusing <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> I don't know if you could clean those up somehow, maybe do a mass find and see where they are used and how, and see if simply toggles and then proper percentage floats can be used...

I usually want to "Turn this mod off". And setting to 66.0 doesnt look like its OFF to me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

LordDrow · Nov 11, 2006

CCC, the formatting looks pretty good. You may want to put the explanation above the option, but play with it both ways, see which makes more sense.

Some sections, like the starting ship nationality definitely need to be expanded so first time users know exactly what settings are available to them.

Generally speaking, it looks to me like you are on the right track, even if Hat disagrees with us. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/slap.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":slap" border="0" alt="slap.gif" />

Keep up the good work, I'll be looking forward to perusing the drafts as you complete them.

Cap'n Drow

Stable Build 13 Work In Progress

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