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some bug i think

R

redCorsair

Sailor
I was in the cave oxbay then I've reached the "abey of maltese order" (i was lvl > 4).It was hard.
I was having strange but not important bug "you must dig deeper".Took "toughness" as ability - i think this worth
mentioning.Managed to get out alive from the abbey & dungeon into the town because even if I was being hit by 3-4 enemies at a time my health would just replenish in time by itself(toughness bug ??).In the town I was
invincible - chalanged the guards killing many of the without problem.skeletons started to walk on the streets out of nowhere attacking me on sigth.My rep. was "horor of ... seas".
I wanted to know i I was imortal so i unequipped my sword (till now I was in figth mode all the time).In that moment died on a few hits but I'm sure I could have finished the game with my sword drawn without any problems cause I've already killed around 50-60 guards in town due to this bug.
I have savegames if someone wants to look at this.

Sorry again for my english.
 
I heard reports of something similar before: The toughness perk is a tad bit overdone and becomes something like an invincibility perk. Something needs to be balanced there. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

Beats me why the skeletons came to attack you in the town. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wacko:" border="0" alt="wacko.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=156985:date=Aug 7 2006, 05:44 AM:name=Colosseum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Colosseum @ Aug 7 2006, 05:44 AM) [snapback]156985[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Hey!! I LIKE the toughness perk. :p
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Me too but I the level of invincibility felt like cheating.I also had : Defense I,Defense II,Crit. hit,Expert fencing(??)
- so I felt unstopable <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/danse1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":dance" border="0" alt="danse1.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/danse1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":dance" border="0" alt="danse1.gif" /> .I don't think I exagerate too , it was too much.
Thanks for your replies.

(Sails away <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/keith.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":keith" border="0" alt="keith.gif" /> )
 
I'd like to see the toughness perk scaled back majorly. I like the idea but, at the moment, it's basically a cheat .

Cheers <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
The way it is now, you regain health at a rate of 0.1 all the time. If you take a potion, you regain health at the rate of 5.0 for a short time. Toughness makes you regain health at 8.0 constantly. It's a little overdone, although I have managed to get myself killed with toughness and golden armor. It just doesn't happen often. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Toughness as it is now is a lot more useful for a high level character than for a beginner. For the beginner, it's pretty much a cheat. If anyone has any ideas on balancing it better, I'll have a look at fixing it.

Hook
 
I think that, at the very least, the regeneration rate with the toughness perk must be LOWER than when using a potion. So < 5. I think a regeneration rate of 1.0 would already more than enough. Maybe 0.5 would do. In any case, the rate should be set between 0.1 (default) and 5.0 (using a potion).
 
<!--quoteo(post=157146:date=Aug 8 2006, 12:54 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Aug 8 2006, 12:54 AM) [snapback]157146[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I think that, at the very least, the regeneration rate with the toughness perk must be LOWER than when using a potion. So < 5. I think a regeneration rate of 1.0 would already more than enough. Maybe 0.5 would do. In any case, the rate should be set between 0.1 (default) and 5.0 (using a potion).
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found toughness files :
a) PROGRAM\elrapido.c - for NPCs -

-----
if(IsCharacterPerkOn(chr, "Toughness"))
{
HP = HP * 1.1; // 10% health bonus for the tough guys
chr.chr_ai.hp_dlt = 0.5; // higher regeneration rate, default is 0.1 , was 0.3 set it to 0.5 ( make tough NPCs a bit harder to kill );

}

---

b) PROGRAM\Loc_ai\LAi_character.c - I guess here it is

// El Rapido -->

if(IsCharacterPerkOn(chr, "Toughness"))
{
hp = stf(chr_ai.hp) + (dlthp*(dltTime*5)); // was 80 (!!!!) I made it 5
}
else
{
hp = stf(chr_ai.hp) + dlthp*dltTime;
}

---- !! fixed --
i know I shoul post line numbers & stuff but now I just wanna play this game , test the thing
if that works , i'll post all the stuff
LE: files/code are from the Base Version (296 MB) without update
 
Actually, it's 0.1 * 80 or 8.0, not 80. I'd suggest 30, certainly not 5, which would make toughness worthless.

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=157260:date=Aug 8 2006, 07:38 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Aug 8 2006, 07:38 PM) [snapback]157260[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Actually, it's 0.1 * 80 or 8.0, not 80. I'd suggest 30, certainly not 5, which would make toughness worthless.

Hook
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0.1 - default

0.1 * 80= 8.0 // i.e. 80 times the normal rate !!!
0.1 * 5 = 0.5 // 5 times the normal rate , same as tough AI (on my example now) , remember also the 10% hp
bonus - I would take toughness as perk

feel free to put your own values there however
 
Instead of assigning random numbers to it, let's find out what people want toughness to do and I'll code up a formula for it.

For example, I would like to see Toughness reduce, but not eliminate, the need for health potions during combat. The number you've suggested will not affect combat, but will give your character a "stronger constitution" so he will heal faster outside of battle. Personally, I'd rather use a potion to heal outside of battle.

And since my high level character with Toughness AND Gold Armor has gotten killed once in battle, and has come close to it several other times (I learned to pay more attention to my health after that first time), even a rate of 8.0 may not be as overpowered as it looks at first.

We may want to scale it by character level to achieve some balance. I can come up with the numbers and the formula, I just need to find out what people want from Toughness.

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=157267:date=Aug 8 2006, 08:41 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Aug 8 2006, 08:41 PM) [snapback]157267[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Instead of assigning random numbers to it, let's find out what people want toughness to do and I'll code up a formula for it.

For example, I would like to see Toughness reduce, but not eliminate, the need for health potions during combat. The number you've suggested will not affect combat, but will give your character a "stronger constitution" so he will heal faster outside of battle. Personally, I'd rather use a potion to heal outside of battle.

And since my high level character with Toughness AND Gold Armor has gotten killed once in battle, and has come close to it several other times (I learned to pay more attention to my health after that first time), even a rate of 8.0 may not be as overpowered as it looks at first.

We may want to scale it by character level to achieve some balance. I can come up with the numbers and the formula, I just need to find out what people want from Toughness.

Hook
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you're rigth
 
I'm going to have to revise my stand on toughness being overpowered. I've got a character about level 11, with solingen rapier, golden armor and toughness, but no other fencing perks, and melee skill 6. He gets killed *regularly* during boardings where there are lots of enemies. And this is with his normal compliment of hit points, not the odd adjustment the game was doing before I rewrote the boarding code.

Maybe the toughness perk is balanced after all. Yeah, it's going to seem overpowered if everything else is maxed. But if you don't have everything else maxed, it's certainly not an invulnerability skill.

Hook
 
But if the toughness perk increases the player's health at a rate of 8 while a potion does it at rate 5, it is still a weird perk, because it makes potions completely useless to the player. I think that whatever values are used, the potions should restore the health faster than the toughness perk does.
 
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