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New SkillsUp system

Maximus

Maximus

Sailor
Storm Modder
Hi all. I need help for testing my new mod. Especially I'm asking for help from CCC, Hook and TIH.
What new:
1. Automated skills up. In any situation any character will increase his skills
- Fencing - when fighting
- Accuracy - when shooting
- Commerce - when trading
- etc.
This part need to be tested, balanced and, sure, improved. Mod without toggle in BuildSettings at the moment
<img src="http://foto.spbland.ru/data/media/11/lrg_99452_CharacterImage.gif" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

<img src="http://foto.spbland.ru/data/media/11/lrg_99453_DefenceImage.gif" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

<img src="http://foto.spbland.ru/data/media/11/lrg_99454_MeleeImage.gif" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

For start a new game with this mod - BUILD need a bit more time

2. New "Mutiny". Not only Log-string - interface with possibility to quiet your crew (if you have enough money and rum). If you can't to quiet your crew - you will fight with your men (on ship-deck or on dry land, if you not at sea)
In this part we need to add dependence from Luck, maybe. Mod without toggle in BuildSettings at the moment
<img src="http://foto.spbland.ru/data/media/11/lrg_99455_MutinyImage.gif" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

3. Some changes added for DirectSail. Fixed bug with WalkOnShip mod. Added Dialog-screen with player's boatswain or crewmember. In this dialog you can cancel encounter and sail farther
<img src="http://foto.spbland.ru/data/media/11/lrg_99390_DirectSailDialog.gif" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />

All files can be found on FTP in folder MAXIMUS: Update[21.12.06].rar, BuildSettings[Update[21.12.06]].rar, Fix[Update[21.12.06]].rar

Mod based on the latest BUILD 14 alpha
 
Whoa! Way cool, Maximus! Everytime I think this game can't get any better, something new and awesome pops up! I love the mutiny thing!
 
Hi Maximus,

I haven't really been around here much lately, but I did pick up your skills mod from the ftp a while back and have been testing it when I've had the chance... not very often but enough to get a reasonable way into the game (haven't been playing/updating much in the last few months). I haven't got to the Build 14 stuff yet.

I think this RPG style skill up system was one of the best features of the SLiB mod and I think your doing a great job in developing it for Build compatibility.

I'm not sure if this mod is going to be a favourite of those who want a quick game, as it takes much longer for skills to develop, however, I'm a big fan because it makes your character actually work on those particular skills to improve them... plenty of work to develop individual skills rather than a token effort , a quick up, e.g. tutorial deck or several escort/trade missions. Some fine tuning and this will be an excellent mod. Of course a toggle will be required for those who are not into this sort of thing.

So far these are my observations...

Experience points still seem to work fine for increasing levels and as a result HPs.

All skills are improving, i.e. the % to the next skill levels are going up.

% increases in most skills seem to be obvious, i.e. what makes them increase. Leadership improves most noticeably with missions completed, Commerce with profitable deals, Melee and Defence with personal combat, Grappling with boarding. Accuracy seems more directly related to pistol accuracy, more so than accurate cannon fire. Cannon skill develops slowly which is probably OK. Sailing increases slowly in battle and much more rapidly in storms (if you ride 'em out for a lot longer). Repair has gone up very slowly... haven't worked out the best conditions to improve this yet (repair your ship at sea with tons of planks and canvas, or spend up at the ship yard?). Not sure what is working on Luck...

Most noticeably, I haven't seen abilities points become available after the first couple of skill ups. My character is level 17, 200 HPs, highest skill is 4 (Melee) and I've had a total of 8 skill level increases, however, apart from the initial ability choice that you get at the beginning of the game, I've only received one ability point, after second skill up (I think?), but none since. Bug, incomplete, intentional?

The slow increase in skills is actually making the bonus items (jewels and treasures giving a skill bonus) more important which I think is a pretty cool side effect.

Anyway, these are some things I've observed so far. I'll post more if and when I get a chance. Keep up the great work, matey.

Cheers,

JD <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />




<!--quoteo(post=176701:date=Dec 23 2006, 04:58 AM:name=Doober)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Doober @ Dec 23 2006, 04:58 AM) [snapback]176701[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Whoa! Way cool, Maximus! Everytime I think this game can't get any better, something new and awesome pops up! I love the mutiny thing!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah, yeah,

I like these new features, too!

Cheers <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/par-ty.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheers" border="0" alt="par-ty.gif" />
 
seems to me that the skills are going up a little bit to slowly. (judging from the previous post) maybe you should just get one skill point and one ability point per level as a bonus? leadership skill is very important in quests, as it increases the chance that you convince people greatly. a lack of it would couse problems with the quests. or you would have to play for a very long time before you begin doing quests where it's needed, which would simply take to long. the player would likely have a way to good ship in comparison of the difficulty of the quest. example: fighting the french barque with a battleship isn't fun. getting two skill points to distribute would be to much, i think 1 should be fine.

i have realised that this makes the role of officers more important, but i think that getting no skill points would just make you to dependant on your officers. 1 skill point should increase the importance of officers, but not to much.

overall, i really like the idea of the RPG style skill increase, but one additional skill point is required. the new mutiny system seems great to me! what also could be done, is just increase the percentage you get for a skill.
 
No, I think it is good for it to climb slowly. If you get skill points and ability points too easily, you can end up destroying everything in a sloop after a couple hours of playing which is just silly. Although, 1 ability in 17 levels IS a bit slow. Perhaps one every 3-4 levels. The accuracy thing is a bit odd, it should follow the cannon fire, of course, but then it really isn't any different from the cannon skill, so I don't really know how to approach that one.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure if this mod is going to be a favourite of those who want a quick game, as it takes much longer for skills to develop, however, I'm a big fan because it makes your character actually work on those particular skills to improve them... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why would someone play a RPG if you are looking for a quick game?
 
i don't mind this system, it's just that it's way to slow. i have troubles enough with the way it is now. i always concentrate on my leadership first, then my luck, and let my officers fill in the blanks. if i develope my skills that slowly, it would become rather impossible to play. luck and leadership are pretty crucial skills, as i don't think that your officers give you a bonus on that area. same goes for defence and melee. defence from officers does give a decreased death rate for your crew, dut it doesn't help one bit for the character. however, melee and defence aren't that much of a problem here, considering all the fighting.
 
Maybe it could be adjusted so the skills increase quickly at low level, and slowly as you get higher? So your first sea battle should get your sailiing, cannons, etc to level 2. but by the time a sill is at 8, it takes battling and sailing for ages to go up?
 
I've never thought of leadership or luck as that important, the only one I really focus on is sailing because at the low levels, its like a barge. Once I start going for larger ships, I get an officer with defence so my crew doesn't all die on boarding. A little accuracy is alright in case I get into a prolonged firefight with another ship, but I usually just board quick.

Jonathan's idea is a good one, though. It would allow for alot of styles of play. Or better yet, also include a scalar in the internalsettings.h to allow the player to determine how fast it goes up.
 
This sounds absolutely excellent! I'll add it to the Build 14 Alpha version so this can be tested along with all other stuff. An on/off toggle would be nive though. And a scalar would also be useful. I also like Jonathan Aldridge's idea of making the skills increase quickly at first and slower later. I reckon we are on the right track here to make the game more interesting and last longer! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />
 
Hmm, it seems that I have been having problems with your mods, Maximus - abnormal program termination after installing:

- new dialog window
- <b>SkillsUpForTest-[24.11.2006](BUILD13 compatible).rar</b>
- <b>Update[21.12.06].rar</b>
- <b>Fix[for Update[21.12.06]].rar</b>

This is on a fresh install of PotC, with Build 13 Update 2 running, RunMe.bat and all. I had to reinstall PotC after I had this very same problem, but with only the new dialog windows installed. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=176805:date=Dec 23 2006, 02:00 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Dec 23 2006, 02:00 PM) [snapback]176805[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
This sounds absolutely excellent! I'll add it to the Build 14 Alpha version so this can be tested along with all other stuff. An on/off toggle would be nive though. And a scalar would also be useful. I also like Jonathan Aldridge's idea of making the skills increase quickly at first and slower later. I reckon we are on the right track here to make the game more interesting and last longer! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Nothing worse than finding after 10 hours of play you are about as powerfull as you can get imho - one reason i tend to constantly restart from the begining. So yes i'm all for slowing down progression of your chars main skills. If you want it could be made a toggle for those choosing 'Arcade' settings to play the game? That way players who like the quick arcade version of the game will stay happy,and those that like the long term game challange have a great addition also.

Excellent work Maximus.Once i get onto the build14 i'll be sure to check this out <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=176811:date=Dec 23 2006, 06:12 AM:name=Black Bart)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black Bart @ Dec 23 2006, 06:12 AM) [snapback]176811[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

Nothing worse than finding after 10 hours of play you are about as powerfull as you can get imho - one reason i tend to constantly restart from the begining. So yes i'm all for slowing down progression of your chars main skills. If you want it could be made a toggle for those choosing 'Arcade' settings to play the game? That way players who like the quick arcade version of the game will stay happy,and those that like the long term game challange have a great addition also.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I have the same opinion <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hi.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":gday" border="0" alt="hi.gif" />
 
Apparently there already IS a skill increase speed modifier in Maximus' code:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->#define SKILLS_UP_BONUS        25
    // From 10 to 99 - speed of player's skills-increase<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
 
<!--quoteo(post=176805:date=Dec 23 2006, 06:00 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Dec 23 2006, 06:00 AM) [snapback]176805[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
This sounds absolutely excellent! I'll add it to the Build 14 Alpha version so this can be tested along with all other stuff.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Sorry to ask Pieter. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> Do you have an idea when it will be released ?
 
<!--quoteo(post=176821:date=Dec 23 2006, 04:09 PM:name=bartolomeu o portugues)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bartolomeu o portugues @ Dec 23 2006, 04:09 PM) [snapback]176821[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Sorry to ask Pieter. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> Do you have an idea when it will be released ?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The files are already on the FTP. In a couple of days I'll merge them into the Build 14 Alpha pack and release it as Build 14 Alpha 4. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=176822:date=Dec 23 2006, 07:17 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Dec 23 2006, 07:17 AM) [snapback]176822[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<!--quoteo(post=176821:date=Dec 23 2006, 04:09 PM:name=bartolomeu o portugues)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bartolomeu o portugues @ Dec 23 2006, 04:09 PM) [snapback]176821[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Sorry to ask Pieter. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" /> Do you have an idea when it will be released ?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The files are already on the FTP. In a couple of days I'll merge them into the Build 14 Alpha pack and release it as Build 14 Alpha 4. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Thanks Pieter. That's a good news <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/danse1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":dance" border="0" alt="danse1.gif" />
 
i personally hate that system. i will have to redesign all my game strategies for this. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="<_<" border="0" alt="dry.gif" /> well, what increases luck then? i'll be needing it. as luck can help me getting better leadership because of succesfull quest completion, and as you get leadership from quests, i'll have both things i need, although after a very long time. i never care about those other skills, as i use my officers for that. come to think of it: what happened to the cannoneers? i haven't encountered even one since i started playing build 14. ever.
 
Caution:

1. How many major game play features have made it out of 14 alpha to B13?

Adding more untested and potentially conflicting code to the alpha mix without certifying some of the old stuff as ready for publishing, is just asking for trouble.

It won't take much for 14alpha to look and act like Pre-B13 did.


2. Leadership and Luck do play a part in quest completion and availability of items.
Ignoring these will imbalance the game.


3. You want to severely limit the player's ability and skill points while he still increases experience levels.
So many have "B" itched about how easy the game is, how out of balance.
The result is that many changes have been made. Combat is now more difficult on sea and land.
Much of this is based on the player's experience level.
Mess with this and all those changes will have to be reworked, at least if "Game Balance" is to be maintained.

4. These changes will impact how and when quests, and especially the main story quest, can be completed.
I think that requiring people who want a "quick" game, to have to play on Arcade Mode, is insulting.

As for a toggle, It must be in there. I recommend this:
a. Arcade
b. Realistic
c. non compos mentis
... for those who really should get a real life and have forgotten ... This Is A Game!
 
my point exactly with the luck and leadership. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=176852:date=Dec 23 2006, 06:15 PM:name=Petros)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petros @ Dec 23 2006, 06:15 PM) [snapback]176852[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
............
I think that requiring people who want a "quick" game, to have to play on Arcade Mode, is insulting.
...........
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Why? I thought that was the whole reason for having that setting. Sailing is quicker, ship combat easier etc. Why have that option at all if it's insulting? Surely it's there to offer a 'quicker' game.

Personaly i find it insulting that i should be forced to play a 'Pirates!'(recent)version of PotC when it has so many elements that introduce a more 'realisitic' pirate experience, many of which never got a chance to be finished properly when Disney/Bethesda rushed it out in the first place.

But other than that i agree on pretty much the rest of what you said <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
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