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New SkillsUp system

well, what i think he means is that it isn't nice for those who want to use it but don't want to play in realistic saling mode. i prefer his options a lot more. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" /> or could it be made toggable in the build settings?
 
Had a few more thoughts about the skillup thing.

Along with the increase in skill being dependent on it's current level (ie. increase quickly to start, and slower later), it'd be good if you're officers increased in their special skill faster then then non-special skills. eg. You're navigator increases their sailing skill at double speed, but their other skills at half speed. (Making theie role on the ship actually mean something)

And of couse, the whole thing should be able to be switched on and off in buildsettings.ini .
 
<!--quoteo(post=176852:date=Dec 23 2006, 12:15 PM:name=Petros)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petros @ Dec 23 2006, 12:15 PM) [snapback]176852[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. You want to severely limit the player's ability and skill points while he still increases experience levels.
So many have "B" itched about how easy the game is, how out of balance.
The result is that many changes have been made. Combat is now more difficult on sea and land.
Much of this is based on the player's experience level.
Mess with this and all those changes will have to be reworked, at least if "Game Balance" is to be maintained.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lessee... your character is generated at a low level, and you gain skill very slowly. And abilities even slower. Enemies are still generated at near your own character level... very likely with the original number of skill points. In other words, if you're level 10, you meet a level 10 enemy with 22 skill points to distribute, and 11 abilities. You've got somewhere south of half that. Good luck, Bucky!

If you're going to put a toggle on it, and you'll have to, make the toggle separate from everything else and have it ONLY affect the skills and abilities, so we can turn it off when it blows up in our faces.

Unless, of course, you have gone through tons of code and applied the changes to all fantom generated characters. Given what I've seen in the past, it's unlikely this has been covered properly, and this code is an unholy mess. Sorry.

Hook
 
i think that this mode could be used as an experiment. if it works, (which i doubt) put it in-game, or a toggable option (which i prefer). if it doesn't work, either give up or do a huge bunch of tweaking. this game simply wasn't made for this style of playing. you have this type, and the new RPG style type. why should this game have the RPG style type, if this works as well? whe're not trying to turn this into another game.
 
I would quite like this to be honest, because as it is currently, there is no challenge. I get my Melee up to 6 or 8 (can't remember) in the initial training fights with Malcolm and then just run and sail around boarding anything that catches me eye... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />
 
the game can get really repetetive if it lasts to long. especially if you don't do any quests, which you need leadership and luck for. and in my experience, it can actually be surprisingly hard to get those skills up to ten. and then there's of course defence and melee. i've only succeeded once in getting all four skills at ten and that was at the end of a game.
 
So it seems we have come to the conclusion that this mod needs a toggle on it, right? I don't think we should forget about this mod because some people don't like it. I reckon we should put it in, balance it and add a toggle on it for those who want the game working as usual. This mod would have lots of implications on the game, but that is no reason to drop it. If we can get it working well and balanced, this could be one of the best mods added to PotC. Like Maximus said in his first post here: It needs to be tested and balanced.

Please note that with this mod you DO increase your luck and leadership skills. This happens mostly by playing certain quests.

I am thinking of making this mod an additional download for the Build 14 Alpha version rather than adding it in by default as long as there is no toggle, so people using Build 14 Alpha will not be forced to use it, but people who do want to use it will be able to.

<!--quoteo(post=176852:date=Dec 23 2006, 07:15 PM:name=Petros)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petros @ Dec 23 2006, 07:15 PM) [snapback]176852[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
1. How many major game play features have made it out of 14 alpha to B13?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->None. Reason: I asked MANY times that people would test Build 14 Alpha with the specific goal of confirming some of the submods working so that they can be added to a Build 13 Update. So far I have not really had much confirmation of mods working, so I can't add anything yet.

<!--quoteo(post=176852:date=Dec 23 2006, 07:15 PM:name=Petros)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petros @ Dec 23 2006, 07:15 PM) [snapback]176852[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
2. Leadership and Luck do play a part in quest completion and availability of items.
Ignoring these will imbalance the game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Of course they're not ignored. Who said they are ignored? Not me or Maximus. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no" border="0" alt="no.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=176852:date=Dec 23 2006, 07:15 PM:name=Petros)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petros @ Dec 23 2006, 07:15 PM) [snapback]176852[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
4. These changes will impact how and when quests, and especially the main story quest, can be completed.
I think that requiring people who want a "quick" game, to have to play on Arcade Mode, is insulting.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I wouldn't call it insulting per se, but I agree that we should add a seperate toggle and not put it under the Arcade Mode setting.

<!--quoteo(post=176890:date=Dec 24 2006, 01:36 AM:name=Jonathan Aldridge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonathan Aldridge @ Dec 24 2006, 01:36 AM) [snapback]176890[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Along with the increase in skill being dependent on it's current level (ie. increase quickly to start, and slower later), it'd be good if you're officers increased in their special skill faster then then non-special skills. eg. You're navigator increases their sailing skill at double speed, but their other skills at half speed. (Making theie role on the ship actually mean something)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That is an excellent idea! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=176950:date=Dec 24 2006, 12:25 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Dec 24 2006, 12:25 PM) [snapback]176950[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<!--quoteo(post=176852:date=Dec 23 2006, 07:15 PM:name=Petros)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petros @ Dec 23 2006, 07:15 PM) [snapback]176852[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I think that requiring people who want a "quick" game, to have to play on Arcade Mode, is insulting.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I wouldn't call it insulting per se, but I agree that we should add a seperate toggle and not put it under the Arcade Mode setting.

...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Putting this skill-up system in Arcade Mode was never suggested, and was not my point.
Just the opposite!

<!--quoteo(post=176811:date=Dec 23 2006, 09:12 AM:name=Black Bart)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black Bart @ Dec 23 2006, 09:12 AM) [snapback]176811[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
...i'm all for slowing down progression of your chars main skills. If you want it could be made a toggle for those choosing 'Arcade' settings to play the game? That way players who like the quick arcade version of the game will stay happy,and those that like the long term game challange have a great addition also.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

He's saying that this skill-up stuff would be default realistic "for those who like long term challenge", and those who don't want to use it (I'm guessing Morgan, Hook, and myself so far) could use "Arcade".

This, I'm totally against.
 
<!--quoteo(post=176922:date=Dec 24 2006, 07:23 AM:name=Rico)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rico @ Dec 24 2006, 07:23 AM) [snapback]176922[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would quite like this to be honest, because as it is currently, there is no challenge. I get my Melee up to 6 or 8 (can't remember) in the initial training fights with Malcolm and then just run and sail around boarding anything that catches me eye...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not difficult to get your character to level 4 by continuously fighting Malcolm in the tutorial. This would give you 8 skill points to distribute.

If you don't point points into leadership, you won't be able to hire the better officers. Your sailing and gunnery skills will be pretty bad. Not to mention boarding skills.

If you don't put points into luck, you won't even SEE any of the better officers. And enemies will be generated with higher character levels. This is partially a self correcting problem, as fighting higher level enemies will raise your levels faster. But without decent luck, they will likely end up having better weapons than you, and will always be higher level than if you had better luck.

I used to put my points into melee as well, but figured they were more valuable elsewhere after I learned how to fight in the game. Learning to fight well did take a while tho. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=176985:date=Dec 25 2006, 12:59 AM:name=Petros)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petros @ Dec 25 2006, 12:59 AM) [snapback]176985[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Putting this skill-up system in Arcade Mode was never suggested, and was not my point.
Just the opposite!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I know. I tried to say that I agree with you on that. If I didn't make that clear, I apologize. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/oops3.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":eek:ops2" border="0" alt="oops3.gif" />
Rest assured that neither me nor Maximus have ever had the idea of putting it under Aarcade Mode and it will not happen either. Black Bart was the person who suggested it and he just asked if that could be a good idea. He didn't say it <i>would</i> be a good idea.

<!--quoteo(post=176985:date=Dec 25 2006, 12:59 AM:name=Petros)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petros @ Dec 25 2006, 12:59 AM) [snapback]176985[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
He's saying that this skill-up stuff would be default realistic "for those who like long term challenge", and those who don't want to use it (I'm guessing Morgan, Hook, and myself so far) could use "Arcade". This, I'm totally against.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Once the mod is working right and is properly balanced, I would like to have it on by default in Build 14. But there will be a toggle for all those who don't like it. I am also totally against putting the toggle for this mod under the "Arcade" option. That option is for the sailing model and for nothing else.

The reason why I would like this mod on by default is because I want the development on the game to progress. If we do add the mod, but have it off by default, it will be a mod quickly forgotten, which would be a shame, because it is a good idea that I think could really add a lot to the game. Perhaps the people who are currently against the mod would even end up liking the mod after it has been made working right. But for those who end up really not liking it, there will be a toggle to turn it off. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
Waiting for the Build 14 alpha update 4, i've installed the Maximus mod and i think it's a RIGHT move. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
 
Are there any experience gains in any of your quests, Bartolomeu? These will need to be changed for this mod, because with this mod everything works differently. Check the quests_reaction.c file.
 
Yes, there are. Today, i played the bartolomeu's quest with the Maximus mod and it seems to work. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

Otherwise, Could you put this file (greeting_alias) in the next update so that the Bartolomeu's voice works ? Thanks...

And I think to release my third quest before February...[attachmentid=782]
 
<!--quoteo(post=177009:date=Dec 25 2006, 12:30 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Dec 25 2006, 12:30 PM) [snapback]177009[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
...... Black Bart was the person who suggested it and he just asked if that could be a good idea. He didn't say it <i>would</i> be a good idea.

.......... Perhaps the people who are currently against the mod would even end up liking the mod after it has been made working right. But for those who end up really not liking it, there will be a toggle to turn it off. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah 'some kind' of toggle was all i was suggesting.Putting it in 'arcade mode' was just one option that i thought might sit ok with folks, but the normal buildsettings/internalsettings.h toggle is the better, more flexible option.
So yeah i'm for that toggle <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />
 
Yesterday, I noted that the experience gains are "smaller". But, on the other hand, to fight the enemies is easier than before so the system seems to be fair. Maybe, we should let the experience values unchanged especially for people won't use this new skill-up system.
 
<!--quoteo(post=176893:date=Dec 23 2006, 08:02 PM:name=Hook)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hook @ Dec 23 2006, 08:02 PM) [snapback]176893[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Lessee... your character is generated at a low level, and you gain skill very slowly. And abilities even slower. Enemies are still generated at near your own character level... very likely with the original number of skill points. In other words, if you're level 10, you meet a level 10 enemy with 22 skill points to distribute, and 11 abilities. You've got somewhere south of half that. Good luck, Bucky!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes, but it is not really that big of a deal, we all use officers which more than evens that aspect out. I've never seen an enemy captain that has a similar level that can even make it a close fight against a human player when swordfighting or in ship battle.

I would be definitely in favor of adding it to the game. Put in a toggle in the buildsettings, of course, as all of the majors mods have that, and this would be no exception.
 
Sorry, Pieter.. Forget my previous message... I haven't read the new quests reaction.c file. Today, I did the changes in the two quests.
 
Thanks a lot, Bartolomeu! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />

Just to let you all know: Maximus added a BuildSettings.h toggle that seems to work just fine, so I'll try to release a new Build 14 Alpha update including this mod AND the toggle later today. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/doff.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doff" border="0" alt="doff.gif" />
 
An (almost) complete list of what improves which skill:

<b>Leadership:</b>
- Talking to people
- Playing quests
- Paying salary
<b>Fencing:</b>
- By swordfighting
<b>Sailing:</b>
- Storms and twisters
- Fighting sea battles
<b>Accuracy:</b>
- By firing your pistol (most effective)
- By firing your cannons (less effective)
<b>Cannons:</b>
- Fighting sea battles
- By firing cannons and hitting enemy ships
<b>Grappling:</b>
- By boarding
<b>Repair:</b>
- Repairing during sea battles
- Repairing at shipyards
<b>Defence:</b>
- By swordfighting
- By failing to open chests
- Repairing during sea battles
- Repairing at shipyards
<b>Commerce:</b>
- By trading
<b>Luck:</b>
- Talking to people
- Playing quests
- Playing tavern games
 
<!--quoteo(post=177549:date=Jan 1 2007, 12:31 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Jan 1 2007, 12:31 PM) [snapback]177549[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
An (almost) complete list of what improves which skill:

<b>Leadership:</b>
- Talking to people
- Playing quests
- Paying salary
<b>Fencing:</b>
- By swordfighting
<b>Sailing:</b>
- Storms and twisters
- Fighting sea battles
<b>Accuracy:</b>
- By firing your pistol (most effective)
- By firing your cannons (less effective)
<b>Cannons:</b>
- Fighting sea battles
- By firing cannons and hitting enemy ships
<b>Grappling:</b>
- By boarding
<b>Repair:</b>
- Repairing during sea battles
- Repairing at shipyards
<b>Defence:</b>
- By swordfighting
- By failing to open chests
- Repairing during sea battles
- Repairing at shipyards
<b>Commerce:</b>
- By trading
<b>Luck:</b>
- Talking to people
- Playing quests
- Playing tavern games
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


One possible addition to the list? When I completed an escorting a trader quest, my Commerce skill rose by +1%. Somebody else may be able to confirm.
 
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