Unconfirmed Bug Exploits, some stuff with Davy Jones and his ship

[POOTIS]

So first of all I would like to share some exploits I've found ( note that I play mostly ''free play'') -

1st - if some random person wants to attack you there'd be battle music and your character icons would be glowing red, I've found a way to evade this random fight by exiting and entering the location again, it's okay if you're walking somewhere in a city, but if you enter a house or the jungle I think that it'd be better if the exit was locked so you'd have to fight in order to leave the area (house ambush, jungle)

2nd - poisoning merchants - by throwing a poisoned knife to a street merchant they die after time and you can loot their corpse which usually has above 1 million coins and lotsa goods, this can be fixed if it's possible to make ''Street Merchant'' corpses unlootable or if u make the merchants god mode.

3rd - loanshark chest - I actually found this somewhere on the internet several years ago, but if you get money from a loanshark and then put all of the money in your inventory in a chest in the house of the loanshark (not including the new store buildings) you can occasionaly get as much money from him as you want. This can be fixed by removing the ''chest'' in the houses of the loansharks, or if you're unable to put money into chests, unless it's the ship's.

Now onto Davy Jones

1st - In Cayman when you go to governor Swann he will need your help to rescue his daughter Elisabeth Swann from an unknown ship, later we understand that the ship is The Flying Dutchman and Davy Jones took Elisabeth to... make love with her... I just don't think that as a character Davy Jones would do such a thing since he never stopped loving Calypso. Maybe change it so that Barbossa takes Elisabeth as it would make more sense, at least to me (but hey that's only my opinion and I hope I'm not insulting the person who made this, cause I think it's really something great and inovative, but for me personally it just doesn't fit).

2nd - I played a bit as Davy Jones and while controlling his ship The Flying Dutchman I realised that it steers and loads cannons extremely slow, though except that the ship is perfect - being able to submerge and emerge, summoning the Kraken, it's model and textures are spot on!!

Well that's all, at least for now ^^' I hope I didn't repeat what someone else said and/or insulted someone. I really love the amazing job you've all done and continue to do with the new remastered version!

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

Very intriguing finds with these exploits! I'd never considered poisoning a street merchant before. I'll have to try that out my next visit to Tortuga.

You're not alone in your opinion of the Davy Jones side quest. He's not very Davy Jones-ish at all. And his motive for kidnapping Elisabeth is just... eww.

 

[DeathDaisy]

1st - In Cayman when you go to governor Swann he will need your help to rescue his daughter Elisabeth Swann from an unknown ship, later we understand that the ship is The Flying Dutchman and Davy Jones took Elisabeth to... make love with her...

omg what, thats almost as bad as the stupid gang rape encounter on so many levels, nvm that Davy being a rapist also feels way out of character

youve got awesome exploit searching skills, would never have thought to try these

 

[Pieter Boelen]

2nd - poisoning merchants - by throwing a poisoned knife to a street merchant they die after time and you can loot their corpse which usually has above 1 million coins and lotsa goods, this can be fixed if it's possible to make ''Street Merchant'' corpses unlootable or if u make the merchants god mode.

OH! That's clever, that is!!!
There is some code in place so that if you steal from or kill a street merchant, the consequences are severe.
But with poisining, apparently the code doesn't recognize that you are responsible so you can get away with it.

This can be fixed by removing the ''chest'' in the houses of the loansharks, or if you're unable to put money into chests, unless it's the ship's.

Not allowing money to be stored anywhere other than on the player character would avoid a LOT of potential exploits.
Certain people will commit mutiny though if that is changed, but I've got to admit I am quite in favour of that idea....

1st - In Cayman when you go to governor Swann he will need your help to rescue his daughter Elisabeth Swann from an unknown ship, later we understand that the ship is The Flying Dutchman and Davy Jones took Elisabeth to... make love with her... I just don't think that as a character Davy Jones would do such a thing since he never stopped loving Calypso. Maybe change it so that Barbossa takes Elisabeth as it would make more sense, at least to me (but hey that's only my opinion and I hope I'm not insulting the person who made this, cause I think it's really something great and inovative, but for me personally it just doesn't fit).

It was @Bartolomeu o Portugues' idea. I don't think the story fits 100% with established canon from the films either.
But then neither did the fifth film in the series, so I suppose some creative liberty might be acceptable...?

You're not alone in your opinion of the Davy Jones side quest. He's not very Davy Jones-ish at all. And his motive for kidnapping Elisabeth is just... eww.

Many years ago, I went through @Bartolomeu o Portugues' sidequests to fix the dialog a bit and smooth out some of the rough edges.
I started on the Davy Jones one, but never made it to the end. Mostly due to lack of time and afterwards differing priorities.
But I definitely see your point and cannot really disagree...

2nd - I played a bit as Davy Jones and while controlling his ship The Flying Dutchman I realised that it steers and loads cannons extremely slow

That's odd. Is her TurnRate excessively strange? Or the crew number?
I don't remember her having such issues, but it was a long time ago I played around with her.

omg what, thats almost as bad as the stupid gang rape encounter on so many levels, nvm that Davy being a rapist also feels way out of character

I always interpreted it as "Davy really liking the girl, but having a really weird way of showing it".
Not quite as evil as outright rape, but certainly not admirable either. Doesn't seem like that much of a stretch though, since he is quite a villain, isn't he?

 

[POOTIS]

That's odd. Is her TurnRate excessively strange? Or the crew number?
I don't remember her having such issues, but it was a long time ago I played around with her.

I had the maximum amount of crew, it's really wierd, it was my favourite ship, but the slowness really removes the enjoyment.

Also a thing that popped in my mind a while ago - is it possible to make random encounters with The Flying Dutchman / Black Pearl or Queen Anne's Revenge? It would be really frightening to go into a storm or twister and see the black ship on the horizon, or worser yet - the Dutchman emerging from the sea right next to you

EDIT: I wouldn't say Jones is a villian, he's just a misunderstood being with a broken heart :c

 

[DeathDaisy]

I always interpreted it as "Davy really liking the girl, but having a really weird way of showing it".
Not quite as evil as outright rape, but certainly not admirable either. Doesn't seem like that much of a stretch though, since he is quite a villain, isn't he?

I havnt played the quest yet, so I interpreted "make love to" and @Mad Jack Wolfe 's reaction as it definitely meaning "have sex with". kidnapping someone to have sex with them is definitely rape, even if its out of villainous love. but Id have to check it out to form a definite opinion. but even if shes just princess peach, villains come in different flavors. to me, Davy is a villain driven by wrath and loss of his love, as @POOTIS pointed out, making him lose much of his humanity, which makes it extra out of char with him acting like a vaudeville villain and kidnapping someone else cuz he loves them. as I said tho, I havent actually played it, so correct me if Im wrong

 

[DeathDaisy]

Also a thing that popped in my mind a while ago - is it possible to make random encounters with The Flying Dutchman / Black Pearl or Queen Anne's Revenge? It would be really frightening to go into a storm or twister and see the black ship on the horizon, or worser yet - the Dutchman emerging from the sea right next to you

that would be awesome

 

[Grey Roger]

1st - if some random person wants to attack you there'd be battle music and your character icons would be glowing red, I've found a way to evade this random fight by exiting and entering the location again, it's okay if you're walking somewhere in a city, but if you enter a house or the jungle I think that it'd be better if the exit was locked so you'd have to fight in order to leave the area (house ambush, jungle)

The ability to run away from a fight is important both to players who do a lot of fighting and run into a situation they can't handle, and players who don't want to do a lot of fighting in the first place. Otherwise you find yourself in a situation you can't win and it's basically "all of a sudden you die".

3rd - loanshark chest - I actually found this somewhere on the internet several years ago, but if you get money from a loanshark and then put all of the money in your inventory in a chest in the house of the loanshark (not including the new store buildings) you can occasionaly get as much money from him as you want. This can be fixed by removing the ''chest'' in the houses of the loansharks, or if you're unable to put money into chests, unless it's the ship's.

I believe there's a mechanism where if you borrow money from a loanshark and don't pay it back, bad things happen. I'm not sure if they still send big warships after you or if you just lose a lot of reputation. Normally you'd pay back by talking to him but if putting the money in his chest counts as paying him back, fair enough. And, whether you pay him back by putting the money in the chest or by talking, of course you can then borrow money from him again, either by taking it out of the chest or by talking to him.

Having said that, if you visit a random house and there's someone in it, and you loot the chest, they attack you. Perhaps we could make the loanshark do likewise.

Now onto Davy Jones

1st - In Cayman when you go to governor Swann he will need your help to rescue his daughter Elisabeth Swann from an unknown ship, later we understand that the ship is The Flying Dutchman and Davy Jones took Elisabeth to... make love with her... I just don't think that as a character Davy Jones would do such a thing since he never stopped loving Calypso. Maybe change it so that Barbossa takes Elisabeth as it would make more sense, at least to me (but hey that's only my opinion and I hope I'm not insulting the person who made this, cause I think it's really something great and inovative, but for me personally it just doesn't fit).

That's Elizabeth Shaw. You'll meet Miss Swann in another side quest...

The whole Elizabeth Shaw quest might not be accurate to the film, but then neither is the original storyline of the game, still present in Build 14 as "Tales of a Sea Hawk". You'll face the Black Pearl but the way you defeat her is nothing like in the film. For that matter, the quest in which you meet Elizabeth Swann owes little to the films apart from the character names.

If you want a game which is more true to the films, I strongly suggest you play the "Hoist The Colours" storyline. You'll meet almost everyone from the first film, plus Davy Jones. You won't meet Captain Jack Sparrow, you are Captain Jack Sparrow.

2nd - I played a bit as Davy Jones and while controlling his ship The Flying Dutchman I realised that it steers and loads cannons extremely slow, though except that the ship is perfect - being able to submerge and emerge, summoning the Kraken, it's model and textures are spot on!!

You're playing with a very large ship. Early in the game you probably don't have sufficient Leadership and Sailing skill, and you're penalised for it. As your skills build up, the ship should be easier to sail. You also don't have much Cannon skill, and although you aren't penalised the way you are for Leadership and Sailing, it does mean cannons are indeed slow to load. Also, cannons of that period were slow to load. Films don't tend to show that because it would be make for dull watching, if nothing much happens while everyone is reloading.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I had the maximum amount of crew, it's really wierd, it was my favourite ship, but the slowness really removes the enjoyment.

Realistic or copying Arcade Game Mode? That might make a substantial difference.

Also a thing that popped in my mind a while ago - is it possible to make random encounters with The Flying Dutchman / Black Pearl or Queen Anne's Revenge? It would be really frightening to go into a storm or twister and see the black ship on the horizon, or worser yet - the Dutchman emerging from the sea right next to you

Certainly possible and someone even started work on it a while back.
But it was never finished, had to be excluded from the main mod and is now no longer compatible.
Someone would need to step in again to make this a reality. But certainly it is possible.

I wouldn't say Jones is a villian, he's just a misunderstood being with a broken heart :c

Definitely true. But also perhaps not the nicest person either.
Just a nice gray character like an interesting villain should be.

I havnt played the quest yet, so I interpreted "make love to" and @Mad Jack Wolfe 's reaction as it definitely meaning "have sex with". kidnapping someone to have sex with them is definitely rape, even if its out of villainous love.

There is no reference to sex in that sidequest that I know of.
If there were, I would have removed it ages ago.

Of course there might be some room for interpretation.
If someone would care to smooth that out, I certainly will not object.
It would finally finish what I started, after all.

I believe there's a mechanism where if you borrow money from a loanshark and don't pay it back, bad things happen. I'm not sure if they still send big warships after you or if you just lose a lot of reputation. Normally you'd pay back by talking to him but if putting the money in his chest counts as paying him back, fair enough. And, whether you pay him back by putting the money in the chest or by talking, of course you can then borrow money from him again, either by taking it out of the chest or by talking to him.

Pretty sure putting money in the chest doesn't count as paying him back...
You also definitely get a penalty for not paying back your loan.
But while there is (stock game) code related to ships chasing you around if your loan expires, I have always doubted if that works correctly.
More likely it is one of those unfinished stock game features.

You're playing with a very large ship. Early in the game you probably don't have sufficient Leadership and Sailing skill, and you're penalised for it. As your skills build up, the ship should be easier to sail. You also don't have much Cannon skill, and although you aren't penalised the way you are for Leadership and Sailing, it does mean cannons are indeed slow to load. Also, cannons of that period were slow to load. Films don't tend to show that because it would be make for dull watching, if nothing much happens while everyone is reloading.

Good point.
@POOTIS, could you show a screenshot of your F2>Character screen?
That might indeed give an explanation.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

2nd - poisoning merchants - by throwing a poisoned knife to a street merchant they die after time and you can loot their corpse which usually has above 1 million coins and lotsa goods

I simply had to try this out for myself, and it works! Over a million gold just waiting to be picked up, along with everything else in their booth. It's not the most ethical way to stock one's weapons locker, but it's certainly effective.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

I suppose the Merchant Guild will need to keep a lookout for poisoners as well.
We could disable looting them altogether, but that's boring.
I prefer allowing it, but having enough consequences to make it difficult to get away with.
But of course that only works if those consequences trigger!

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

I suppose the Merchant Guild will need to keep a lookout for poisoners as well.
We could disable looting them altogether, but that's boring.
I prefer allowing it, but having enough consequences to make it difficult to get away with.
But of course that only works if those consequences trigger!

An alarm bell sounds when you throw the knife, but the gendarmes never show up. Your reputation doesn't suffer, nor does the wounded merchant cower from you. Like you, I'm all for leaving these options in the game, but there need to be consequences for shanking and robbing a humble street vendor.

 

[Pieter Boelen]

An alarm bell sounds when you throw the knife, but the gendarmes never show up. Your reputation doesn't suffer, nor does the wounded merchant cower from you. Like you, I'm all for leaving these options in the game, but there need to be consequences for shanking and robbing a humble street vendor.

Better make a Bug Tracker entry for your one.
Does not sound like it works the way it should or the way we should want it to work.

 

[POOTIS]

Also, cannons of that period were slow to load. Films don't tend to show that because it would be make for dull watching, if nothing much happens while everyone is reloading.

@Pieter Boelen

That is true - cannons being slow, steering being slow, heck ships even were sometimes stuck in the sea for weeks due to lack of wind, but I am playing in arcade mode, since I'm not that patient ^^'

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd....522/A0A633BEE86F43955BE6E363CC1AC6BCBEAB55E7/

If you want a game which is more true to the films, I strongly suggest you play the "Hoist The Colours" storyline. You'll meet almost everyone from the first film, plus Davy Jones. You won't meet Captain Jack Sparrow, you are Captain Jack Sparrow.

That was the first story I played when I got the mod, I really wasn't expecting the cutscene of Jack entering Port Royale, it was an extremely pleasant surprise!

Also I've used the loanshark exploit quite a few times ^^' (don't judge) and I haven't met any penalties about it, I'm guessing that when putting the money in the chest and getting more causes some error in the script.

 

[Grey Roger]

I thought there was supposed to be a check to see if you're spotted when throwing the knife? Certainly when I've used it in a different situation, I sometimes got spotted. If the normal check isn't working for street traders then maybe make a special case for them, with the odds shifted a bit. It should be possible, but less likely, to get away with throwing a knife at a street trader than throwing it at a soldier. (Especially since the attacks on the soldiers which I'm thinking of are at night, whereas attacking a trader has to be done in broad daylight...)

 

[Levis]

I suppose the Merchant Guild will need to keep a lookout for poisoners as well.
We could disable looting them altogether, but that's boring.
I prefer allowing it, but having enough consequences to make it difficult to get away with.
But of course that only works if those consequences trigger!

How about just learning merchants to use anitdotes and making sure the consequenses trigger?

the reason for it not tirggering is probably this:

  // Poisoned Throwingknife
  makeref(itm,Items[n]);
  itm.id                      = "pistolpdart";
  itm.sound                   = "OBJECTS\duel\sword_wind.wav";  // soundfile played when used
  itm.throw                   = 1;    // new attribute, weapon that you throw, so only one time use
  itm.poison                  = 1;    // poisons targets
  itm.stealth                 = 0.75;   // doesn't alarm victim
  itm.skiptrade               = false;  // you can sell the item
  itm.skipsell                = true;   // you can't buy them

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

I thought there was supposed to be a check to see if you're spotted when throwing the knife? Certainly, when I've used it in a different situation, I sometimes got spotted. If the normal check isn't working for street traders then maybe make a special case for them, with the odds shifted a bit. It should be possible, but less likely, to get away with throwing a knife at a street trader than throwing it at a soldier. (Especially since the attacks on the soldiers which I'm thinking of are at night, whereas attacking a trader has to be done in broad daylight...)

That's a good point (pardon the pun). I'm pretty sure there was no one around since I instinctively check for any nosy parkers hanging about before doing something sketchy. I'll try it again when there's an audience.

 

[Grey Roger]

I don't know if the game checks for other people seeing you throwing things, or whether it's just the target. But there could always be a background check for the people you can't see - the Merchants' Guild has eyes everywhere, some of them probably hiding in buildings where you can't spot them by looking around...

 

[POOTIS]

I don't know if the game checks for other people seeing you throwing things, or whether it's just the target.

I actually poisoned my first target when I was right next to a redcoat...

EDIT: When the target was poisoned I went next to it and it did a cowering animation

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

I went back and tried a few scenarios. If any NPCs were nearby, my rep dropped. Never had the merchant cower, though. Then I tried poisoning a merchant with two guards looking. My rep dropped a little more substantially, but the guards didn't react. When I poisoned one of the guards, however, all hoo-ha broke loose.

Interesting note: if you simply walk up and poison a merchant, you only get their money. If you look at their inventory first, you can get everything they have. Just make sure you can get to where the merchant's body might fall. Some booths can't be walked through.