• New Horizons on Maelstrom
    Maelstrom New Horizons


    Visit our website www.piratehorizons.com to quickly find download links for the newest versions of our New Horizons mods Beyond New Horizons and Maelstrom New Horizons!

Expansion of Slave trading and adjusting of Markets both black and white

Should slaves be contraband?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 25.0%

  • No

    Votes: 12 75.0%
  • Total voters
    16
FireBat

FireBat

Landlubber
Storm Modder
Pirate Legend
Let me first get this off my chest...i no way do i condone the slave trade or any racial discrimination whatsoever. Period.



However, if we were to examine history, we would find that the slave trade was a HUGE industry during the time period of our game. For those you who wish to travel down the road of a slave trader, perhaps a quest could be created, but as time goes along your reputation would go down, but your pockets would fill.
=OR=
You decide to take on the slave traders, free the slaves, get a bunch of loot from the badguys...and every loves you, well except the slave traders who put a bounty on yer head etc etc

I found that it was difficult to come by slaves. Perhaps when a ship surrenders, an option is available to make the crew slaves (is there one already? :shrug ) When a settlement is defeated, take the citizens as slaves...(The most sinister route could be explored as well where indiginous people live on the so called uninhabited islands and they can be taken as slaves) of course, they all wouldnt be slaves willingly, so perhaps a battle would ensue. Of course it can not be made as easy as it was in history as this would make slave trading too easy.
In this regard, smuggling and slave trading would be 2 seperate things, and controlled by 2 seperate markets.

Cannon Markets
Now of course i may have missed it...
But wouldnt a catelog of cannon prices for each city be nice, just like the trade catelog. I know that eventually i ran out of things to trade, and trading cannons would have been a nice change, had i known the prices from city to city.


Last thought...
What is food doing on the blackmarket in some places? If there is any possible reasons..please let me know...I am confused...lol
 
The food issue has been corrected in CM V3. I think Luke159 has released a mini mod which fixes the problem for vanilla.

In regards to slavery, it's something I've been thinking about changing for CM V3 but was unsure. Since you've brought up the subject I've modified your original post and added a poll for everyone to vote.

Some rules first:

Keep things civil please, I don't mind that this subject is debated in this thread but if passions get the better of people, I will edit posts or delete them altogether. If things get out of control, I will close this thread.

We are discussing slavery from a historical prospective and as an economic item in the game. Please keep any racial or prejudice feelings to yourself.

With that being said, my opinion is the Devs's probably grappled with this same issue and listed them as contraband that way players don't actively or inadvertently become slave traders. In the description of them in the item_int, they are described as slaves but also prisoners of war captured from ships. Perhaps we could make a compromise somewhere here with some smart editing.
 
Officerpuppy said:
The food issue has been corrected in CM V3.
Click to expand...
Well thank goodness. I can't wait for CM V3 to come out.

Officerpuppy said:
With that being said, my opinion is the Devs's probably grappled with this same issue and listed them as contraband that way players don't actively or inadvertently become slave traders.
Click to expand...

I can see why the devs's would have grappled with this issue. I felt unsure bringing it up myself, but I am also all for historic accuracy of these game types.

Officerpuppy said:
In the description of them in the item_int, they are described as slaves but also prisoners of war captured from ships. Perhaps we could make a compromise somewhere here with some smart editing.
Click to expand...

Of course you realise that with this statement i want to make things more complicated...lol!
The prisoners of war could be released back to there respect state government for a lower price, yet not as damaging to your reputation to that country, or sold to slavers, for more money, yet quite damaging to both your reputation to the country they come from, and your own reputation as a hero.

Of course now the question arises...How would one sell slaves?
To shoot for highest historical accuracy this is what i propose. Slaves(IE prisoners of war captured from ships collonies etc) can only be sold in high numbers (more than 50) to slavers at one or two locations in the world map where they gather (also makes it convient to attack them to free said slaves) Smaller numbers of slaves (less than 50) can be sold at stores perhaps.

Always count on me to make a complicated problem, more complicate ;)
 
I found this which is interesting It has maps and lots of history. The more I look around the site the more impressive it is, it has a huge collection of information on there.

Of particular interest was an interactive map which lets you search by time periods, in this case I did a search of Caribbean ports that imported slaves from 1650-1699.

The following islands/ports could have slaves changed from contraband to import:

Puerto Rico/port unknown
Trinidad/port unknown
Hispaniola/Santo domingo
Hispaniola/Port au Prince
Hispaniola/Port de paix
Hispaniola/Cap Francais
Cuba/Havana
Spanish Main/Veracruz
Spanish Main/Guatemala
Spanish Main/Cartagena
Spanish Main/Santa Marta
Spanish Main/Rio de la Hacha
Spanish Main/La Guiara
Spanish Main/Cumana
Spanish Main/Portobello
Curacao
Barbados/port unknown
Venezuela/Caracas
Martinique/port unknown
Base-Terre
Montserrat
Antigua/Saint Johns
Nevis/New Castle
St.Eusatutis
St.Kitts/port unknown
St.Maarten
St.Thomas
Jamaica/Port Royal
Jamaica/Kingston


Some of these towns/islands aren't in the game and there are few more which I didn't list because I know for a fact they aren't in the game. For the most part, almost every region/port in the game would have to have slaves changed to import.

I think the islands or ports that aren't listed should have slaves remain as contraband.
 
Wow, what a insane amount of information. I knew that slave trade was rampant, but this is horrifying. I have to go agree with your recomendation. Any port/island not mentioned should have slaves remain as contraband. (and higher in price as well)


Of course this will make things easier to mod as well.
 
From a historic point of view i say yes slave trading should be in the game, i know the English would travel to Africa load up with slaves trave to America and sell them then head back to England with the gold, many ships was built with one purpose in mind and that was to hold as many slaves as possible for trading. I can't remember who it was or the name of the ship but i remember reading up some where about a pirate who captured a English merchant ship, he didn't know at the time it was full of gold and in a storm the ship was sunk. the ship was desgined to trade slaves, i can't find the site i read about it and the pirate is famous but for the life of me i can't remebre who he was, i know in the storm he went down with the ship as did most of the crew.
 
Luke159 said:
From a historic point of view i say yes slave trading should be in the game, i know the English would travel to Africa load up with slaves trave to America and sell them then head back to England with the gold, many ships was built with one purpose in mind and that was to hold as many slaves as possible for trading. I can't remember who it was or the name of the ship but i remember reading up some where about a pirate who captured a English merchant ship, he didn't know at the time it was full of gold and in a storm the ship was sunk. the ship was desgined to trade slaves, i can't find the site i read about it and the pirate is famous but for the life of me i can't remebre who he was, i know in the storm he went down with the ship as did most of the crew.
Click to expand...

It sounds like yer talking about this. I remember reading it some time ago. Took a bit of lookin...
 
Yep that the one, and here's more info on him. I remember where i saw it now, i have a DVD of it somewhere which talks about Clifford searching for the wreckage of Bellamy's ship The Whydah, which is the ship he captured that was designed for slave trading.
 
This is fasinating data, all of which can be used to build a playable character. "Prince of the Pirates" he was called. I could think of a more valiant person to take down the slave trade a notch.
Also, all of this information proves that a slave trade element needs to be added to COAS
 
We had a discussion like this for PotC and what we ended up doing is using a quest to free slaves maybe make a quest where you can transport them for someone, having them as contraband (IMO) just doesnt feel right for me :no
 
Im not sure if you mean to limit them to being a quest item, or if they can be transported and sold in addition to the quests of them being carried.
I would think of it similar to a cargo run similar to that of one done for a store owner wanting you to transport goods. And if you wanted your reputation to improve you could free them, and the if they were not delivered by the specified time your bounty with the slave traders would go up, but your reputation would as well.


There are so many ways to run this idea...i figure we should get them all out there and you folks could select the best one.
 
Yep that is what I meant, like a quest for a slave trader (similar to the shop owner) :yes

I like the rep and bounty thing :onya
 
And in the cities where slaves could be contraband, you would have slave traders in taverns just like the smugglers - you could arrange a meeting out of the city and sell (or maybe even buy?) the slaves, that would be cool. Also would be good if slaves would be actually used somewhere, in the description says it's used as a workforce in the New World.

Maybe it would be hard to script, but you could for example assign slaves to work in mines (caves etc.) by talking to Govrenor (the govrenor of the city you conquered, the govrenor is your officer you assigned to lead the city, in other words). Then you would get more income from the city and the store would get more gold or silver bars, or maybe a completely new item - stone (which could be used to upgrade forts (?) etc.).
 
Personally though I think the practice was horrid, it WAS historically accurate. So slave trading should be in. But I do think there should be provisions added to the game that would allow changing 'viewpoint' in the game as the years go by, with slavery becoming looked down upon by the closest time periods we may wind up working on.

I'm assuming of course that we will eventually be adding a similar set of periods to what exists in build now.

Cap'n Drow
 
I'll keep this poll open until the end of the month. After that I'll look at the results and let the results dictate the possibility of a slaves as a tradeable item for the CM.
 
[quote name='Cap'n_Drow' date='20 April 2010 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1271814413' post='365317']
But I do think there should be provisions added to the game that would allow changing 'viewpoint' in the game as the years go by, with slavery becoming looked down upon by the closest time periods we may wind up working on.

I'm assuming of course that we will eventually be adding a similar set of periods to what exists in build now.

Cap'n Drow
[/quote]

In the interest of historical accuracy I think it would be difficult to change the 'viewpoint' as it seems that the attitude towards slavery didnt really change until after 1850

2vw61kp.jpg




(FB EDIT: In 1827, Britain declared that participation in the slave trade was piracy, a crime punishable by death. The power of the Royal Navy was subsequently used to suppress the slave trade, and while some illegal trade, mostly with Brazil and Cuba, continued, the Atlantic slave trade would be eradicated by the middle of the 19th century.[30]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy )
 
Normally I wouldnt double post (old habits die hard) but i feel this is slightly different topic.

Officerpuppy said:
The food issue has been corrected in CM V3. I think Luke159 has released a mini mod which fixes the problem for vanilla.
Click to expand...

As I was playing i saw other things on the blackmarket list which I felt shouldnt have been there. Planks and Medicine are the 2 honorable mentions. I dont know if Luke159's release fixes that (cause i cant find it, and if i did i dont know if i could put it on COAS CM v2)

Apparently Tea was the main item smuggled in the 17th century ( http://www.schoolhistory.co.uk/lessons/crimepunishment/smuggling.shtml ) I feel that we could add another major Blackmarket good.
 
are you shure that tea was smuggled in the caribean...and that tea was contrabanded? I think tea was only smuggled because of the high taxes...but in COAS you only smuggle with contrabanded goods...like alkohol was smuggled during the prohibition in US...or like some people smuggle drugs today
 
i think more research is in order. I will work on that today..
(it seems that tea smuggling occured more so in the 18th century...100 years later in the time period of COAS)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top