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Beta 8 Discussion

I might as well do one of my posts:

<b>Build:</b>

1.PotC
2.12.1(full) ran runme.bat
3.prebuild_13(base)
4.beta6
5.beta7(latest)
6.beta8
7. run ennglish.bat


<b>Bugs/Issues for Beta8(rc1):</b>

<b>1.Bug/minor:</b> - rare occasions you can get a hireable officer that doesn't have any reputation(empty rep box). first noticed this in beta3 - but i might have seen it in the 21 Aug 06 update for the prebuild13(base), when new officers were introduced. It seems to be random on the model/officer type - i havent seen a pattern of a particular kind? then it is very rare - maybe 1 officer in 30/40 you can see this?

<b>2.Bug?/Issue:</b> Forts still fire at ships not visable on your radar - this can lead to weird stuff(many surrenders being processed at once/forts constantly fireing into mountains for along time) and i'm still not convinced a fort would(or could) bother fireing over 2000 yards, I've seen them fire over greater distances than this also!!!(a super-gun?!)

Suggest: Limit range of fort cannons(as they seem to have no limit?) to a more realisitic range(1000yards?)?

<b>3.Bug/Music/V.Minor:</b> - Storm sounds(not the music) keep playing after you have exited the 'storm screen' into the navigation sailing mode.

<b>4.Bug/Mod(?)/Minor:</b> - On transition from the captains cabin/crew deck etc to the 3D sailing view, the wind will always change to around 7 knots.
 
Hi All,

Found one more small dialog bug, which I think shouldn't be too hard to fix, but isn't a showstopper anyway.

If you die on land and wake up in a tavern room upstairs, and it's not the first time you've died then you don't get the correct dialog from the women in there.

This only happens if you have:
#define LOADING_SCREENS_ONLY_FIRST_TIME 1
in Buildsetting.h

Seems to have to do with the dialog file checking the "lcn.image" property, and that having LOADING_SCREENS_ONLY_FIRST_TIME = 1, clears this value.


Should I pose this sort of thing here? or stick it in the bug tracker, or what?
 
@ Jonathan Aldridge,

yep - so that was what happened! I had it to and it happend so quick i didn't really notice what had taken place. Not only did i not get the full dialogue from the lass who look after you - but i also had a random house dweller in the tavern room! - complete with his full range of dialogues("i'm wounded can you help" etc). very weird!

So its a confirmed small glitch when using #define LOADING_SCREENS_ONLY_FIRST_TIME 1.
 
<!--quoteo(post=171531:date=Nov 15 2006, 10:59 AM:name=Jonathan Aldridge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonathan Aldridge @ Nov 15 2006, 10:59 AM) [snapback]171531[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
If you die on land and wake up in a tavern room upstairs, and it's not the first time you've died then you don't get the correct dialog from the women in there.

This only happens if you have:
#define LOADING_SCREENS_ONLY_FIRST_TIME 1
in Buildsetting.h

Seems to have to do with the dialog file checking the "lcn.image" property, and that having LOADING_SCREENS_ONLY_FIRST_TIME = 1, clears this value.
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<!--quoteo(post=169409:date=Oct 31 2006, 05:50 PM:name=CouchcaptainCharles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CouchcaptainCharles @ Oct 31 2006, 05:50 PM) [snapback]169409[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<!--quoteo(post=169361:date=Oct 31 2006, 09:33 AM:name=Jack Rackham)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Rackham @ Oct 31 2006, 09:33 AM) [snapback]169361[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
this will skip loading screens except for the first visit to a location:
PROGRAM\reload add this line under "int ReloadToLocation(... "

Locations[location_index].image = "";
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Hey, THAT is a nice idea <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/onya.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="onya.gif" /> Though keep in mind that you change an initialized attribute of that location for good. There is a slight chance that this could cause problems if that attribute is needed elsewhere. E.G. the VC mod once used location.image to determine certain types of random characters. Though currently only the .label attribute is used there.
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Why are pleas for caution and restraint so often ignored? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /> Probably uncool and spoiling the fun, eh? Cassandra wasn't popular either <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=171548:date=Nov 15 2006, 12:14 PM:name=CouchcaptainCharles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CouchcaptainCharles @ Nov 15 2006, 12:14 PM) [snapback]171548[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
.....
Why are pleas for caution and restraint so often ignored? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /> Probably uncool and spoiling the fun, eh? Cassandra wasn't popular either <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
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:wink

You do still get a short 'blank' screen when transitioning between locations with this new option enabled.......it probably does save some time, but if its a messing up other parts of the game it might need pushing down the line for a later build, and further testing/tweaking etc?
 
<!--quoteo(post=171504:date=Nov 15 2006, 04:44 AM:name=IncredibleHat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IncredibleHat @ Nov 15 2006, 04:44 AM) [snapback]171504[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I was able to add all the taverns to that quest_reaction, however I don't know all the proper "goto" locators for each tavern. I've set all other settings proper, so when exiting sitting at one of those taverns, they may work granted the goto locator of "goto6" exists in all taverns and is somewhere you can walk away from. grr.
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Alas, the large tavernmodel (lt_l.gm) has NO goto6 locator. Which afflicts Antigua_tavern, La_havana_, Santo_Domingo_, Tortuga_, Marigot_ and Philipsburg_tavern . (Lucky incidence that Murdock wasn't there)

Though ALL tavern models have a goto5 locator. I'll see if i can incorporate that into TIH's fix.
 
The only thing I have found so far is that when you go to rest in the tavern, all of the rooms I go to seem to have someone in them and if you loot the chest you have to kill the,
 
Well, that's also due to LOADING_SCREENS_ONLY_FIRST_TIME 1


BTW , it may be that you have to start a new game to fix the issues caused by that. Setting LOADING_SCREENS_ONLY_FIRST_TIME to 0 won't fix the locations that you already visited. Cause for all those the .image attribute has already been changed for good.
 
<!--quoteo(post=171529:date=Nov 15 2006, 10:30 AM:name=CouchcaptainCharles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CouchcaptainCharles @ Nov 15 2006, 10:30 AM) [snapback]171529[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
But at least this time the file can be saved: there is only one typo. Change line 118 of dialogs\Antigua_dockyard.c to read like this:
d.Text = <b>D</b>LG_TEXT[22]; // ccc Nov06; D was missing
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Excellent! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/w00t.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":woot" border="0" alt="w00t.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=171529:date=Nov 15 2006, 10:30 AM:name=CouchcaptainCharles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CouchcaptainCharles @ Nov 15 2006, 10:30 AM) [snapback]171529[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
BTW, great that you like Antigua Naval Station. So it was worth the effort after all.
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I like it a lot too. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/yes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":yes" border="0" alt="yes.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=171529:date=Nov 15 2006, 10:30 AM:name=CouchcaptainCharles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CouchcaptainCharles @ Nov 15 2006, 10:30 AM) [snapback]171529[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
RE: Francois de Vigny: shall we assign the Enc_resident dialogfile to him? He would act like a usual houseowner then. Might not be perfect for a planter, but at least better than nothing.
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Good idea. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
There are some other character with missing dialog files as well, but I don't recall which ones. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":?" border="0" alt="unsure.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=171548:date=Nov 15 2006, 12:14 PM:name=CouchcaptainCharles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CouchcaptainCharles @ Nov 15 2006, 12:14 PM) [snapback]171548[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Why are pleas for caution and restraint so often ignored? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dunno.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":shrug" border="0" alt="dunno.gif" /> Probably uncool and spoiling the fun, eh? Cassandra wasn't popular either <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
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Hehe. I think that we should either remove the loading screens only on first load option completely, turn it off by default (it already is turned off by default, isn't it?) or try to fix it so that the game doesn't use the .image attribute to check things anymore, but another attribute instead. My vote is on turning it off by default; that's the easiest. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
 
yeah its off (0) as default currently in buildsettings.h - maybe add an entery next to it "if engaged may cause some game issues - use with caution!"
 
I say assign SOMETHING to him... its better than "uhm I cant load my dialog file, durrr, duhhh, *droool*".

As for the NPC chattiness... I wonder if I could stuff a simple check in to prevent interruptions. I mean, it could happen anywhere, and be dangerous in any setting if a wandering NPC just up and interrupts you in the middle of some other dialog... right???

I will look at that. As that could be a seriously annoying bug if left alone.
 
Ok, simple fix:

File: PROGRAM/Loc_ai/types/LAi_citizen.c
Line: 123

IF block:
if(time>= 0 && time <= 3.0 && !LAi_group_IsActivePlayerAlarm())

Change to:
if(!dialogRun && time>= 0 && time <= 3.0 && !LAi_group_IsActivePlayerAlarm())


This will make wandering NPCs ignore you if you are in dialog (ANY dialog). So, they won't turn to look at you, and most importantly, they wont initiate dialog with you.
 
<!--quoteo(post=171561:date=Nov 15 2006, 01:41 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Nov 15 2006, 01:41 PM) [snapback]171561[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Hehe. I think that we should either remove the loading screens only on first load option completely, turn it off by default (it already is turned off by default, isn't it?) or try to fix it so that the game doesn't use the .image attribute to check things anymore, but another attribute instead. My vote is on turning it off by default; that's the easiest. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistling.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":wp" border="0" alt="whistling.gif" />
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I fear that many players may switch this on because they are curious, will keep it because they see no immediate problems, and if they later get a bug they won't make the connection anymore. Instead they will say "Stupid buildmakers, why did they place a houseowner in the tavernbedroom?"

On the danger of being the spoiler again: I would take it out for B13 and fix it for B14. The .image attribute is used three times in LAi_monsters alone. A mod that deletes a location attribute for good and breaks several gamefeatures just to save a second of loading screen time is IMHO a bit risky for nothing. (I could also cry out "YET AGAIN HAS SOME RECKLESS MODDER DESTROYED ONE OF MY OLD MODS" But I have vowed to restrain myself, must be careful with my blood pressure, you know <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" /> )



RE: drinking gambler
I changed the locators for the large tavernmodel in TIH's fix and put the whole thing on the FTP as

TIH_11-14_DiceDrinkingFixUPDATE.zip

Doing that i noticed two things:

- The drinking gambler's dialog "Habitue_dialog.c" triggers a lot of quests. Most need questcases in quest_reactions.c for each tavernlocation where the gambler sits. Those quests are:

"to_the_room_for_see_girl"
"gambled_girl"
"habitue_exit_from_room"
"fight_in_upstairs_for_girl
"alc"
"fighting"
"without_memory"
"drink_talk_with_soldier"
"tavern_keeper"

If one of those quest comes up in a dialog with those "new" gamblers we get a bug cause the program won't find a questcase for the new tavern. (You'd probably be stuck sitting there)


- There are only three new drinking gamblers ( those with the "Habitue_dialog.c") on the new islands. Those are

"Louis Guillaut" in "Pointe_a_pitre_Tavern"
"Manuel Salazar" in "Tortuga_Tavern"
"Marcel Fasquel" in "Port_au_prince_Tavern"

So any additional questcases need to be made for those three locations only.


To prevent the player from being stuck we have IMHO three choices:

1. Make questcases for all those quest/new tavernlocation combinations
For me that would be a lot of work (maybe someone familiar with questfiles would be faster). Some of those quests involve other characters/locations where I don't even know if they exist on the new islands.
Testing those quests would be extremely time consuming, cause they come up only now and then.

2. Prevent those quests from being triggered in the "new" taverns
Probably rather easy: a locationcheck in "Habitue_dialog.c" that prevents the questrelated dialognodes if you are in a "new" tavern. Or a new dialogfile for those three "new" gamblers.

3. Take those three gamblers out completely
I wouldn't miss them, they say and do what the fellers on the old islands have said and done over and over again already. But maybe some players will miss them?

So what do YOU think we shall do? I could offer to do 2 or 3, for 1 we would need some other fixer, I simply do not have the time to make all those quests properly.
 
Well, I have a more elegant fix that I uploaded to ftp.

Also, when I fixed the habitue dialog, I noticed the "bet change" actually does NOTHING... its broken. In fact, even if I enabled it to work right (which aint difficult), it won't work well at all, as rarely do any of these guys even HAVE 1000 or 2000 gold on them to bet with !!! ... lame. So, I disabled the option to change your bet, as it simply doesn't work.
 
Maximus made some real games for the Habitue dialog, including a gambling game, blackjack and poker, I think. These can be added to Build 14 and might give a major added value to those characters. But that is for Build 14, not 13. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/no.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":no" border="0" alt="no.gif" />
 
Ok, didnt see CCC's post and posted update. Ignore my post for a second.

CCC:

I like option 2, as that should be simple enough to implement.

We just 'fix' the exit from sit quest (which is actually used by many dialogs in taverns)... which you have already fixed.

Then, we add a 'dont do the sub quests' block in the habitue dialog to prevent any of those side-tracks from occurring. Maybe, for the habitue, we just make the drinking game result in exit_sit, or steal some money from him or you and exit_sit. None of that tavern brawl, officer, tavern keepr stuff.

Should be a simple toggle check at the top of the dialog, right?


Personally I like the idea of just removing those three gamblers from those taverns, but I think people would miss them.

Most importantly, that exit_sit_2 must be working right, as its used by various people in many taverns, and I am not entirely sure if any of those new people are _IN_ the new taverns or not (not without some serious digging and tracing).
 
<!--quoteo(post=171579:date=Nov 15 2006, 04:04 PM:name=IncredibleHat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IncredibleHat @ Nov 15 2006, 04:04 PM) [snapback]171579[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Ok, simple fix:

File: PROGRAM/Loc_ai/types/LAi_citizen.c
Line: 123

IF block:
if(time>= 0 && time <= 3.0 && !LAi_group_IsActivePlayerAlarm())

Change to:
if(!dialogRun && time>= 0 && time <= 3.0 && !LAi_group_IsActivePlayerAlarm())


This will make wandering NPCs ignore you if you are in dialog (ANY dialog). So, they won't turn to look at you, and most importantly, they wont initiate dialog with you.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Is this still good to go ref the instance of random npc interruptions while in a dialogue? If so i'll try it out and let you know. I know its not the fix for the other problems you talked about just above with CCC, but for the dice game interupt i've seen in oxbay tavern(and i guess any normal tavern while playing dice) this is the fix?
 
It seems "alc_2_prepare" doesnt have the taverns either. This is used to 'make the player sit'... I wonder how anyone has been able to sit at a gambler in the new taverns as a result of this mising data? Odd.

I guess that one doesnt need fixing, if it works.

ANYHOO, uploaded some fixes. I added a allowSubQuests checker in the habitue dialog, which will only do all those oddball subquests if you are in a 'stock' game tavern. Until at which point ALL those subquest exit points are fixed for ALL taverns (which will be later for build 14 I suppose with the new gambling code)

***
I also uploaded the no dialog interruption fix.
 
<!--quoteo(post=171561:date=Nov 15 2006, 01:41 PM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pieter Boelen @ Nov 15 2006, 01:41 PM) [snapback]171561[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
<!--quoteo(post=171529:date=Nov 15 2006, 10:30 AM:name=CouchcaptainCharles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CouchcaptainCharles @ Nov 15 2006, 10:30 AM) [snapback]171529[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
RE: Francois de Vigny: shall we assign the Enc_resident dialogfile to him? He would act like a usual houseowner then. Might not be perfect for a planter, but at least better than nothing.
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Good idea. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />
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Fix is on the <a href="http://swankyplace.com/potcbugs/view.php?id=283" target="_blank">bugtracker</a>
 
I'll second, and third, and FOURTH the notion of "REMOVING" the loading screen HACK from the game. Just turning it off by default, still means that it being 'on' screws the hell of a lot of things up.

REMOVE IT.

It's only a few lines of code in one file.
 
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