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Analysing Previous Pirate Games

Pieter Boelen

Pieter Boelen

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As per Seb's suggestion, it might be a good idea to analyse other pirate games and see where they did right or steered wrong and try to gain some knowledge from that on what works and what doesn't.


Seb said:
I just got a small idea, to clearly identify the western attempts on such a game, could'nt we study some of the reviews made about Age of Pirates, and, in several days, on COAS to identify the criticism made by the gaming community and the reasons of their relative faillure in the western world?!
This way, we would clearly identify the wishes of a largest part of the gamers community, and the opinion of the testers.

Here is gamespot test :

Sea Dogs II

IGN test :

Age of Pirates: Caribbean Tales Review - IGN

And test i picked up on the main french gaming sites (google translated)

Test du jeu Age of Pirates : Caribbean Tales sur PC

http://209.85.227.132/translate_c?h...rev=hp&usg=ALkJrhjB1CXQJObG_D6Mw8obg7D-Vpm6Jg
Click to expand...
 
I have just read that IGN AoP game review and I would strongly suggest everybody else have a look through that as well.
It seems pretty fair, maybe even a tad bit on the positive side (no mention is made of bugs), but it does hit on a lot of the issues we'll need to be sorting.
 
Some quotes of this test :

"The fencing engine really shows its weakness here: although you have a variety of attacks, blocks, and feints at your disposal, you only need to worry about dodging and thrusting. We found that a very sound strategy is to basically attack as many times as possible, then run around in circles until our energy recovered. Repeat until the captain is down: simple and boring."

"Although you can engage in legal (and illegal) trading, you're more than likely not interested in that. This isn't Patrician 3, after all. Plus, economic changes seem arbitrary at best; there is no supply and demand system in place."

Ships show damage the same way (not location-based)

"The music is fitting, but nothing special. During boarding encounters, the sound of chaos and metallic clashing of swords will have an effect on you, until you realize that the noise is merely ambient and the second the battle is over, the sound disappears"

"the character models are very plain. All ports look alike aside from the arrangements of their buildings."

"It's almost as if the artists at Akella worked overtime on the sky and close-in sea, then just threw everything else together with whatever stock models they had on their systems."

Also interesting :

<a href="http://rr.pc.ign.com/rrview/pc/age_of_pirates_caribbean_tales/743985/49824/" target="_blank">http://rr.pc.ign.com/rrview/pc/age_of_pira...s/743985/49824/</a>

<a href="http://rr.pc.ign.com/rrview/pc/age_of_pirates_caribbean_tales/743985/49872/" target="_blank">http://rr.pc.ign.com/rrview/pc/age_of_pira...s/743985/49872/</a>
 
I'm saddened when I read those reviews, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Do you really need to have the difference between Russian hardcore gamers and "uncultured" typical western gamers explained after that?

Akella: "We don't need no steenking main quest." Western reviewers: "Everything but the quests is boring, and the quests ain't all that hot either."

I'm assuming here that people understand what the word "uncultured" means to a Russian. If you don't already know, it's the worst possible insult.

A lot of the attitude the reviewers display is how I originally felt about The Sims. I thought it was pointless and boring. Then I got a copy of the Prima strategy guide for it, figured out what the game was about and how to play it, and played for literally years through Sims 1 and 2. They don't have a Main Quest either... it's all open ended game play and there's no one right way to play.

Naval battles are slow and stately, but I've never been bored during one. One on one battles can be reduced to a formula, that if followed will usually win you the battle. But that doesn't mean you have the best formula, and each type of enemy ship has a different formula which is further modified by the type of ship you're sailing. It's more like playing chess than playing Quake. There's no instant gratification here, and that will turn some players off.

Hook
 
<!--quoteo(post=312132:date=Apr 10 2009, 04:08 AM:name=Seb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Seb @ Apr 10 2009, 04:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312132"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"The fencing engine really shows its weakness here: although you have a variety of attacks, blocks, and feints at your disposal, you only need to worry about dodging and thrusting. We found that a very sound strategy is to basically attack as many times as possible, then run around in circles until our energy recovered. Repeat until the captain is down: simple and boring."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I strongly suspect there's some truth in this, though Cap'n_Drow seems to like the fencing system in AoP better than the PotC one, which is of course simpler still. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mybad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":facepalm" border="0" alt="mybad.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=312132:date=Apr 10 2009, 04:08 AM:name=Seb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Seb @ Apr 10 2009, 04:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312132"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"The music is fitting, but nothing special. During boarding encounters, the sound of chaos and metallic clashing of swords will have an effect on you, until you realize that the noise is merely ambient and the second the battle is over, the sound disappears"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Some of the music is pretty good, but some is fairly uninteresting as well. I prefer the music for PotC and Sea Dogs on the whole.
But there IS a nice sense of nautical adventure there; Yuri Poteyenko IS a good composer! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/me.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":onya" border="0" alt="me.gif" />

<!--quoteo(post=312132:date=Apr 10 2009, 04:08 AM:name=Seb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Seb @ Apr 10 2009, 04:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312132"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"the character models are very plain. All ports look alike aside from the arrangements of their buildings."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Absolutely agreed.

<!--quoteo(post=312132:date=Apr 10 2009, 04:08 AM:name=Seb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Seb @ Apr 10 2009, 04:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312132"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"It's almost as if the artists at Akella worked overtime on the sky and close-in sea, then just threw everything else together with whatever stock models they had on their systems."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->There's some truth in this as well. A lot looks rather similar-like.
I like in PotC how some of the character models are CLEARLY based on characters from various pirate movies.
That makes for fairly realistic-looking characters and it's fun to try and recognize where the characters came from. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/24.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rofl" border="0" alt="24.gif" />
For example, there's one trader with the face of Dawg Brown from Cutthroat Island and there's also a Skully-model and a Morgan Adams as wench towngirl. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
And there's, of course, also the famous Barbossa-look-a-like pirate model. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/icon_mrgreen1.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cheeky" border="0" alt="icon_mrgreen1.gif" />
 
Having read those other two reviews now, it seems to me that the worst problem in AoP is just that there's not enough to do in the game world.
There's basically just uninteresting random quests and those are going to get boring real quick.
If you are going to do away with the main quest, there'd better be a truly interesting game world to make up for it.
AoP doesn't have that and PotC doesn't have that, so both are well-served with having some interesting quests available.
Only PotC does and AoP doesn't. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":razz" border="0" alt="razz.gif" />
 
<!--quoteo(post=312183:date=Apr 10 2009, 07:39 AM:name=Pieter Boelen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pieter Boelen @ Apr 10 2009, 07:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=312183"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Having read those other two reviews now, it seems to me that the worst problem in AoP is just that there's not enough to do in the game world.
There's basically just uninteresting random quests and those are going to get boring real quick.
If you are going to do away with the main quest, there'd better be a truly interesting game world to make up for it.
AoP doesn't have that and PotC doesn't have that, so both are well-served with having some interesting quests available.
Only PotC does and AoP doesn't. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/razz.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":razz" border="0" alt="razz.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So - "What do players want from a game"
In <u>very simplified</u> terms I think there are two extreme player types:

Those who want escapism - play the story and successfully complete it.
[QUOTE: REVIEW - There's basically just uninteresting random quests and those are going to get boring real quick.] The reviewer is one of these at this point.

Those who want to beat the game - become experts at the skills required in the game.
[QUOTE: HOOK - The Sims. I thought it was pointless and boring. Then I got a copy of the Prima strategy guide for it, figured out what the game was about and how to play it, and played for literally years through Sims 1 and 2. They don't have a Main Quest]

Of course there are those between those two extremes, and those who will play one way then then other, as their experience with the game increases.

So where should we be aiming to go?

I think the escapist end of the spectrum.
The Russians, with their view of "uncultured" western players [Thanks for the definition Hook - I didn't know that.] will have covered the game beaters, and I believe in general we in the west do generally prefer more of a story.
The brief from Seaward was to make a game that would be successful in the west.

However, I do not think that we should dismiss side quests/random quests. Indeed I think we should have more and of different types.
For example those who played the modded version of Seadogs may remember the "convoy quest".
This was a side quest where the player had to escort three ships to a sequence of different islands, the enemy encountered getting progressively stronger at each island, until he/she reached the final destination and final reward according to how many escorted ships survived and their condition. (simplified description)
It had no bearing on the main story, but gave a quick sense of achievement (and reward) to the player, and also was a good way to gain skills experience without knowing it. It was very popular.

That's my view. What do others think?
 
Side quests are good, as long as they're interesting. There should be some scripted events that could liven things up and make it more interesting.
It'd be especially good if side quests could go different routes, depending on lots of variables, such as the character personalities and fame and reputation, etc.
Random quests don't NEED to be boring, but if not done correctly, they do get boring quick.
 
One thing I found boring recently in the main quest was having to sail from Bonaire to Puerto Rico to Grenada then back to Puerto Rico for the priest's compromising documents. Not a lot of variety there. It was just dog work, nothing interesting or fun. By that time I had enough money that I didn't need to haul cargo. If it hadn't been for some map changes I was testing, I probably would have just sailed on the worldmap to get it over with as quickly as possible.

I play a lot of simulators and wargames. There's no story there at all. About the only RPG I really enjoyed, although I haven't played many, was Blade Runner. I ended up going through every possible branch of the story. I was never very interested in the main quest in PotC, although I'd done a few side quests when they all still worked.

For me, PotC is a naval-combat-under-sail simulator, and that's what I like most about it. If the game had nothing else, not even a land mode, I'd still be happy.

A pirate game will need things to do that are interesting and fun. Swordfights. Ship to ship combat. Chasing down an enemy or running away from one. Buried treasure. Swashbuckle. Enough detail to make things interesting, but not so much that it's a chore. Enough fast action to keep people from getting bored.

If we get a little deeper, we can have politics and diplomacy and various factions that you have to play off against each other. Some people really enjoy puzzles in their games, others don't. Winning because of your wits instead of your sword or cannon skills.

Part of why the M1 Tank Platoon games were so popular was that you started off with an inexperienced crew and could build them up to be very good indeed. At that point you didn't want to lose them and you'd take fewer risks, forcing you to think your way through battles. That's how you make a *game* out of a simple simulator.

I have to admit that I haven't played any other pirate games, though, so I don't know what they've done in the past.

Hook
 
Sounds good, Hook. I especially like the notion of using wits instead of your muscles to play through the game.
 
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